• Embedded ANSI messages (drunken rant!)

    From g00r00@46:1/127 to All on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 20:59:51
    As some of you may know 1.11 will include the embedded ANSI messaging support that I did a zillion years ago in Mystic/2. I intend to enable most of this
    in the very first alpha.

    My big question is (to Nick mostly I guess):

    Would it be against the rules or undesired to post ANSI embedded messages
    here? I would like to post at least a test or two once some people have upgraded to work out the kinks and to see it working at least once. :)

    More on the feature:

    This is a very unique feature and back in the early 2000s it was one of my
    most exciting features of Mystic/2 that no one really saw. No other software has ever done this sort of integration with ANSI.

    Basically this means you can create, upload, save, and edit ANSIs in the FS editor and save them as messages in the message bases. They're post
    processed by Mystic to create network friendly messages with ANSI so you can have ANSI message bases.

    Another cool feature of Mystic/2 was that you can add "authors" to a message if you are the Sysop or message owner, so that anyone you gave access to the message could also edit the ANSI message...

    This allowed ANSI artists to do collaborations online in a BBS message base, and then for everyone else to see their progress or request to be added in as a collaborative artist. Since its a message base you could lock it down to a group only accessible by your art group, etc.

    Then using a naming scheme in the subjects of the messages, the SysOp could run a single command and it would archive and create a releasable art pack. So the idea is that artists would complete work for a pack and post it as a message. Or, as described above, they could even create the art on the BBS itself in Mystic's editor. Then when things are done and reviewed, it creates the art pack.

    The ANSI engine beats the shit out of TheDraw, AcidDraw, Pablo, etc, when it comes to exporting, so it created smaller ANSIs too. This doesn't matter as much now but it was a bigger deal in 2000.

    It would have been amazing in the years of the monthly art pack, and its a shame I never was able to do something like this back then. Given that so few (none?) use Mystic in the art scene anymore, I doubt I'll do the collaborative stuff and package maker but at last the ANSI stuff will be in 1.11 and ANSI messages will work.

    I'm sure no one cares but I'm still excited after all these years lol

    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 A1 (Windows)
    * Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (46:1/127)
  • From Gryphon@46:1/116 to g00r00 on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 20:35:20
    On 10/14/15, g00r00 said the following...

    As some of you may know 1.11 will include the embedded ANSI messaging support that I did a zillion years ago in Mystic/2. I intend to enable most of this in the very first alpha.

    Want!

    "No matter where you go, there you are!" - Buckaroo Bonzai

    --- Mystic BBS v1.10 (Linux)
    * Origin: Cyberia BBS | Cyberia.Darktech.Org | Kingwood, TX (46:1/116)
  • From Avon@46:3/203 to g00r00 on Thursday, October 15, 2015 21:49:18
    On 10/14/15, g00r00 pondered and said...

    Basically this means you can create, upload, save, and edit ANSIs in the FS editor and save them as messages in the message bases. They're post processed by Mystic to create network friendly messages with ANSI so you can have ANSI message bases.

    So at the heart of this is the ability to do some good artwork then share
    your efforts with a wider audience using echomail - right?

    Another cool feature of Mystic/2 was that you can add "authors" to a message if you are the Sysop or message owner, so that anyone you gave access to the message could also edit the ANSI message...

    Nice... could that be extended to users on other BBS looking at something posted to an echomail group or only to those local users on a BBS working on
    an ANSI 'message' that may/may not be an echomail base?

    This allowed ANSI artists to do collaborations online in a BBS message base, and then for everyone else to see their progress or request to be added in as a collaborative artist. Since its a message base you could lock it down to a group only accessible by your art group, etc.

    Sounds like it's local to a specific BBS right? Imagine if you could somehow enable collaborative stuff between assorted systems. I'm also wondering how your original Mystic2 handled version control or was it a case of the last person to save the ANSI message 'wins'?

    Then using a naming scheme in the subjects of the messages, the SysOp could run a single command and it would archive and create a releasable art pack. So the idea is that artists would complete work for a pack and post it as a message. Or, as described above, they could even create the art on the BBS itself in Mystic's editor. Then when things are done and reviewed, it creates the art pack.

    That I really like, and I also like the idea of the reverse being true,
    taking an artpark and being able to unpack it and post as messages in an echomail area for those systems connected to it to be able to view, but
    perhaps not edit as I can see how some artists would not want their art
    messed with. Still we have the ANSI file viewer but it's not quite the same really.

    It would have been amazing in the years of the monthly art pack, and its
    a shame I never was able to do something like this back then. Given
    that so few (none?) use Mystic in the art scene anymore, I doubt I'll do the collaborative stuff and package maker but at last the ANSI stuff
    will be in 1.11 and ANSI messages will work.

    I'm sure no one cares but I'm still excited after all these years lol

    Heh.. I'm glad your excited by it. ANSI is core to the BBS scene and it's history so anything that aids its use via contemporary software is a good
    thing IMHO. If you run with it I would encouarge you to look at the collaborative stuff and package maker as well. Imagine if we could involve a bunch of artists again currently using a website to distribute their art. If
    it was not too hard to send their artwork out to others in the world via
    Mystic and Agoranet I can't see why they would not be interested in that as another option.

    I can also see how it would be a fun way to get them to collaborate with each other in a public space that others could watch and perhaps engage with them.

    I'm too 'glass half full tonight' eh? :)

    Too much chocolate before zzzz time - ha!

    Best, Paul

    --- Mystic BBS v1.10 (Windows)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | telnet://agency.bbs.geek.nz (46:3/203)
  • From g00r00@46:1/127 to Avon on Thursday, October 15, 2015 15:38:31
    So at the heart of this is the ability to do some good artwork then share your efforts with a wider audience using echomail - right?

    Yes, that could be one use for it.

    Nice... could that be extended to users on other BBS looking at something posted to an echomail group or only to those local users on a BBS
    working on an ANSI 'message' that may/may not be an echomail base?

    It was a local only thing.

    Sounds like it's local to a specific BBS right? Imagine if you could somehow enable collaborative stuff between assorted systems. I'm also wondering how your original Mystic2 handled version control or was it a case of the last person to save the ANSI message 'wins'?

    Technically they could do collaborative stuff by just editing it and toggling the resent flag to send it back out, but it would just appear as a different mesage each time.

    Version control didn't really exist. You could add authors and if one person was working on the art, the other wouldn't be able to edit it until they were finished. Although I'm sure I would have ended up doing some type of backup system if it was a feature that ever caught on.

    I can also see how it would be a fun way to get them to collaborate with each other in a public space that others could watch and perhaps engage with them.

    I thoughts are that no one really wants to use a BBS to do art. Using PabloDraw for collaboration fills that role these days, and so few artists care about BBSes or Mystic at all anymore.

    But either way at least the bones will be in and we can see where that goes.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 A1 (Windows)
    * Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (46:1/127)
  • From Accession@46:1/100 to g00r00 on Thursday, October 15, 2015 16:23:38
    My big question is (to Nick mostly I guess):

    Would it be against the rules or undesired to post ANSI embedded messages here? I would like to post at least a test or two once some people have upgraded to work out the kinks and to see it working at least once. :)

    What "rules" are you referring to? :)

    This is the perfect echo to post ANSI test messages in. You must have skipped some messages in here, because others were trying to do the same a couple months back.

    Regards,
    Nick
    --- SBBSecho 2.27-Linux
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (46:1/100)
  • From Skuz@46:1/102 to Accession on Friday, October 16, 2015 01:02:37
    On 10/15/15, Accession said the following...

    What "rules" are you referring to? :)
    This is the perfect echo to post ANSI test messages in. You must have skipped some messages in here, because others were trying to do the same
    a couple months back.

    I'm going to jump the gun and upload an old gstone/awe header that I
    converted to {pipe}code colors. It looks great until i save, then all colors vanish :( The fillin is |05dark megenta |07and the letters are |03 dark Cyan. |07Anyway, here is a 1.10 test draw with {pipe}code, to compare to the future 1.11 real draw with embedded ansi. still yet to be seen (: hint 4 g00
    ▄ ▄ ▄ ▄ ▄
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    ▀ ▀▀ ▀ ▄▄▄█▄ ▄▄█▄▄▄▄▄█▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█▄▄█▄ ▄▄▄█ █▄ gstoned>awe ▀
    ▀ ▀ ▀ ▀ ▀ ▀ ▀

    |15S|07kuz|17|11 dA |16|02FlupHy|16|15 S|07quirrel ate my nuts|15.|07..|08.. |08 ▄▄▓▒▀▐▄▌ ▐▄▄ ▄▓▐▓▄▄ ▄▌ ░▄ ▌|16
    |08▐▓▄▄▄ ▐▓ ▄▐▓▌ ▐▓▌▐▌▐▓▌░▄▄▓▌ ▄▄|0709! |15@|17|11 b7 |16|08 member board |08▐▓▌ ▀▀▓▄▓▌▀█▄▓▌▐▓▌▀▀ ▐▓▌▐▓▌▓▌|15@ |18|00 http://bbsnexus.com/fluph |16

    --- Mystic BBS v1.10 (Windows)
    * Origin: fluph.darktech.org (46:1/102)
  • From Skuz@46:1/102 to Skuz on Saturday, October 17, 2015 00:23:16

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    █▄ gstoned>awe ▀▀▀
    ▀▀ ▀▀▀ This is a reply
    to: myself with the orignal embedded ans with 1.11 to compare
    the 1.10 uploaded {pipe}code ans that save with no color. I'm impressed!

    |15S|07kuz |18|00 dA |16|02 FlupHy|16|15 S|07quirrel ate my nuts|15.|07..|08. |05 ▄▄▓▒▀▐▄▌ ▐▄▄ ▄▓▐▓▄▄ ▄▌ ░▄ ▌ |0709! |15@ |18|00 b7 |16|07 member board |05▐▓▄▄▄ ▐▓ ▄▐▓▌ ▐▓▌▐▌▐▓▌░▄▄▓▌ ▄▄
    |05▐▓▌ ▀▀▓▄▓▌▀█▄▓▌▐▓▌▀▀ ▐▓▌▐▓▌▓▌|15@ |18|00 http://bbsnexus.com/fluph |16

    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 A1 (Windows)
    * Origin: fluph.darktech.org (46:1/102)
  • From g00r00@46:1/127 to Skuz on Saturday, October 17, 2015 01:08:34
    On 10/17/15, Skuz said the following...

    Awesome test it works great here... But sadly I found the first problem!

    I didn't make the quote text work with ANSI! I'll have to work on getting
    that fixed up for A2... so we can quote ANSI too.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 A2 (Windows)
    * Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (46:1/127)
  • From Leslie Given@46:1/102 to g00r00 on Saturday, October 17, 2015 01:47:42
    17 Oct 15 01:08, you wrote to Skuz:

    Awesome test it works great here... But sadly I found the first
    problem!
    I didn't make the quote text work with ANSI! I'll have to work on
    getting that fixed up for A2... so we can quote ANSI too.

    Killer, I've tested it in Agora, DoREnet and my SURVnet advertise anything echo. They all look great! except for the quote part..hehe so I sould not quote
    the post from the day before when i did the 1.10 {pipe}code test to compare with. Nice timing there g00 .. great work also (:

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20150715
    * Origin: flupH - fluph.darktech.org (46:1/102)
  • From WEATHERMAN@46:1/263 to G00r00 on Sunday, October 25, 2015 14:15:50


    The ANSI engine beats the shit out of TheDraw, AcidDraw, Pablo, etc, when
    it comes to exporting, so it created smaller ANSIs too. This doesn't
    matter as much now but it was a bigger deal in 2000.

    It would have been amazing in the years of the monthly art pack, and its a shame I never was able to do something like this back then. Given that so few (none?) use Mystic in the art scene anymore, I doubt I'll do the collaborative stuff and package maker but at last the ANSI stuff will be
    in 1.11 and ANSI messages will work.

    I'm sure no one cares but I'm still excited after all these years lol

    I'm all for it, even though I'm running WWIV over here. I have toyed around with running a second BBS on a different port (Mystic) for awhile now.

    Those ANSI features sound incredible!

    I don't know if you rememeber the old ANSI Art Gallery that was in WWIVnet years ago, but I really enjoyed all those ANSI posts back then. WWIV can display them and upload/post them just fine.

    It seems the main problem these days is that other software doesn't handle them
    the same way and there is no standard for characters per line, etc.

    I'm all for ANSI posts, as I'm used to all that. I know that WWIV does have some proprietary ANSI color codes that it uses, and can upload/view native ANSI, too.

    Sounds like you have taken this to a whole new level, though. :)

    - Mark

    --- WWIVToss v.1.51
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (46:1/263.0)
  • From NuSkooler@46:1/102 to g00r00 on Friday, October 30, 2015 02:22:17
    As some of you may know 1.11 will include the embedded ANSI messaging support that I did a zillion years ago in Mystic/2. I intend to enable most of this in the very first alpha.

    Perhaps this is already answered elsewhere, but do you have a spec for this published somewhere? I'd love to incorporate support in ENiGMA 1/2.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 A3 (Windows)
    * Origin: fluph.darktech.org (46:1/102)
  • From g00r00@46:1/127 to NuSkooler on Saturday, October 31, 2015 02:19:28
    Perhaps this is already answered elsewhere, but do you have a spec for this published somewhere? I'd love to incorporate support in ENiGMA 1/2.

    There isn't really a spec its just ANSI-BBS, the same as saved by TheDraw. The only thing to do is to make sure your BBS can post processes any posted ANSI into a 79 column maximum length, so BBS systems/network software can properly translate the data.

    Some software sees message buffers as "per-line" and some see it as a steaming buffer, so its a requirement to make a giant stream of ANSI that can be cut off at any column size (in the case of BBSes 79 columns) but still display correctly in all locations.

    Of course you need to program your FS editor so that it can read and write ANSI, as well as your BBS's message reader too but that part should be
    obvious! :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 A4 (Windows)
    * Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (46:1/127)
  • From NuSkooler@46:1/140 to g00r00 on Sunday, November 01, 2015 16:33:56
    $ g00r00 was quoted saying . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Of course you need to program your FS editor so that it can read and write ANSI, as well as your BBS's message reader too but that part should be obvious! :)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Ah, I thought yall may had come up with something (kludge/otherwise) to indicate special processing by various FSE/viewers.

    --- Enthral BBS v.635 (PI/2 Linux armv7l)
    * Origin: haunting The chapel >>--> htc.zapto.org <--<< (46:1/140)
  • From Mercyful Fate@46:1/140 to NuSkooler on Sunday, November 01, 2015 21:13:40
    $ NuSkooler was quoted saying . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Ah, I thought yall may had come up with something (kludge/otherwise) to indicate special processing by various FSE/viewers.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Most likely, when testing for kludge and origin lines, just strip ESC sequenes then test. Seems simple enough! :)

    --- Enthral BBS v.635 (PI/2 Linux armv7l)
    * Origin: haunting The chapel >>--> htc.zapto.org <--<< (46:1/140)
  • From wkitty42@46:1/132 to Mercyful Fate on Monday, November 02, 2015 06:40:02
    On 11/01/15, Mercyful Fate said the following...

    $ NuSkooler was quoted saying . .
    Ah, I thought yall may had come up with something (kludge/otherwise) to indicate special processing by various FSE/viewers.

    Most likely, when testing for kludge and origin lines, just strip ESC sequenes then test. Seems simple enough! :)

    it is even easier than that... control and origin lines /always/ start in column 0 (or one if you count like average joe)... that means that there is a newline immediately before them... other than maybe the first one... there's also a newline at the end of them... there is no other way for them to be... ansi cursor positioning be damned ;)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.10 A57 (Windows)
    * Origin: (46:1/132)
  • From g00r00@46:1/127 to wkitty42 on Monday, November 02, 2015 07:57:35
    Ah, I thought yall may had come up with something (kludge/otherwise indicate special processing by various FSE/viewers.

    Most likely, when testing for kludge and origin lines, just strip ESC sequenes then test. Seems simple enough! :)

    it is even easier than that... control and origin lines /always/ start in column 0 (or one if you count like average joe)... that means that there is a newline immediately before them... other than maybe the first
    one... there's also a newline at the end of them... there is no other
    way for them to be... ansi cursor positioning be damned ;)

    I'm not sure hes really talking about how to handle kludge lines but I could be wrong. I think he's asking if there is a way to identify a message as ANSI.

    My answer to that is "does it have ANSI in it?" thats how I tell! :)

    The challenge is that the first column in an ANSI screen is not always saved to disk in the first column of the file, and in fact, it will almost never be when considering color and the 79 character limitation of each "raw" save.

    Mystic has to do a bunch of shit to create 3rd party friendly messages and for the most part it was working well, except when resaving an edited ANSI message. Thats fixed in A4 though so FastEcho etc shouldn't get confused anymore!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 A4 (Windows)
    * Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (46:1/127)
  • From Nightfox to g00r00 on Monday, November 02, 2015 12:44:29
    Re: Re: Embedded ANSI messages (drunken rant!)
    By: g00r00 to wkitty42 on Mon Nov 02 2015 07:57:35

    Mystic has to do a bunch of shit to create 3rd party friendly messages and for the most part it was working well, except when resaving an edited ANSI message. Thats fixed in A4 though so FastEcho etc shouldn't get confused anymore!

    Hi g00r00,

    I'm curious how you deal with ANSI messages in Mystic's message reader interface so that it looks good and is scrollable, etc. I have a custom BBS message reader mod I've developed (for Synchronet), and it seems ANSI messages pose a challenge for the scrollable interface. The main challenge I'm running into seems to be related to ANSI cursor movement/animation codes. Even if I remove those (so that my reader can keep track of where the cursor is and do scrolling, etc.), the ANSI still appears garbled when using my reader's scrolling interface. So I was curious how Mystic handles ANSI in messages.

    Nightfox
  • From g00r00@46:1/127 to Nightfox on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 01:21:42
    still appears garbled when using my reader's scrolling interface. So I was curious how Mystic handles ANSI in messages.

    The ANSI follows the specs of ANSI, there isn't anything special to do when reading it. You just have to create an ANSI parser to parse it, and read it in character by character like a display file.

    These messages can be exported or save to a file and loaded up in an ANSI editor and they display fine.

    The magic comes when you are saving an ANSI message. Mystic's FS editor is basically an ANSI editor so you can create, upload, and edit ANSI within it. But when its saved to a message base it needs to post processed to 79 chars per line, to be compatible with old software. So you have to reform for 79 chars similar to how TheDraw does it, and then account for echomail kludges and origin/tears that have to be added on teh first physical column (which can be tough when formatting the ANSI)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 A4 (Windows)
    * Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (46:1/127)
  • From Nightfox to g00r00 on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 07:55:54
    Re: Re: Embedded ANSI messages (drunken rant!)
    By: g00r00 to Nightfox on Tue Nov 03 2015 01:21:42

    still appears garbled when using my reader's scrolling interface.
    So I was curious how Mystic handles ANSI in messages.

    The ANSI follows the specs of ANSI, there isn't anything special to do when reading it. You just have to create an ANSI parser to parse it, and read it in character by character like a display file.

    The magic comes when you are saving an ANSI message. Mystic's FS editor is basically an ANSI editor so you can create, upload, and edit ANSI within it. But when its saved to a message base it needs to post processed to 79 chars per line, to be compatible with old software. So you have to reform for 79 chars similar to how TheDraw does it, and then account for echomail kludges and origin/tears that have to be added on teh first physical column (which can be tough when formatting the ANSI)

    Thanks for your reply.

    Nightfox
  • From Skuz@46:1/102 to g00r00 on Thursday, November 05, 2015 04:10:50

    sERAPHIM>>eCHO>>▄
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    ----------------------------------------------------------- ░▓-------------------ok it time to save an
    d then edit this message for 1.11A4 / 3rd party fastecho.
    Skuz dA FlupHy Squirrel ate my nuts
    .... ▄▄▓▒▀▐▄▌ ▐▄▄ ▄▓▐▓▄▄ ▄▌ ░▄ ▌
    09! @ b7 member board▐▓▄▄▄
    ▐▓ ▄▐▓▌ ▐▓▌▐▌▐▓▌░▄▄▓▌ ▄▄▐▓▌ ▀▀▓▄▓▌▀█▄▓▌▐▓▌▀▀ ▐▓▌▐▓▌▓▌
    @ http://bbsnexus.com/fluph
    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 A4 (Windows)
    * Origin: fluph.darktech.org (46:1/102)
  • From wkitty42@46:1/132 to g00r00 on Thursday, November 05, 2015 09:15:05
    On 11/02/15, g00r00 said the following...

    I'm not sure hes really talking about how to handle kludge lines but I could be wrong. I think he's asking if there is a way to identify a message as ANSI.

    ahhh...

    My answer to that is "does it have ANSI in it?" thats how I tell! :)

    exactly :)

    The challenge is that the first column in an ANSI screen is not always saved to disk in the first column of the file, and in fact, it will
    almost never be when considering color and the 79 character limitation
    of each "raw" save.

    right... i understand that... to me a screen is a screen is a screen
    completely outside of if it is posted in a message or if it is just a raw
    ANSI file sitting on the disk... to me, an ANSI in a post is simply an ANSI
    in the post... it would simply take the place of the normal message body...
    if one were to edit a message with an ANSI body, i'd simply separate it from the message controls (control lines, tear line, origin line, etc), perform
    the edit and then plop it back in between the controls...

    Mystic has to do a bunch of shit to create 3rd party friendly messages
    and for the most part it was working well, except when resaving an
    edited ANSI message. Thats fixed in A4 though so FastEcho etc shouldn't get confused anymore!

    i can easily understand that! i don't envy you, either... i was trying to be fairly direct but also fairly subtle... i'm glad you found a way to handle
    the problem :) :) :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.10 A57 (Windows)
    * Origin: (46:1/132)
  • From g00r00@46:1/127 to Skuz on Thursday, November 05, 2015 09:53:56
    ok it time to save and then edit this message for 1.11A4 / 3rd party faste --- Mystic BBS v1.11 A4 (Windows)
    * Origin: fluph.darktech.org (46:1/102)

    It looks like it passed with flying colors. No re-tear from FastEcho and the ANSI looks/works great!

    For now I am going to close the book and assume the ANSI embedded stuff is
    good to go!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 A5 (Windows)
    * Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (46:1/127)
  • From Pequito@46:1/167 to Skuz on Thursday, November 05, 2015 03:45:27
    On 11/05/15, Skuz said the following...

    ok it time to save and then edit this message for 1.11A4 / 3rd party faste

    Pity those who have not made the leap to 1.11 yet thats gonna look funny compared to how we see it. Looks great!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 A4 (Windows)
    * Origin: Twinkle BBS [Albuquerque, NM] (46:1/167)
  • From Skuz@46:1/167 to Pequito on Thursday, November 05, 2015 16:47:53
    On 11/05/15, Pequito said the following...

    Pity those who have not made the leap to 1.11 yet thats gonna look funny compared to how we see it. Looks great!

    indeed, that was an awesome display of the power that embedded ANSi has on
    the telnet bbs scene today. If this killer feature doesn't Draw more people
    to upgrade from whatever to mystic 1.11 A4 i'll be surprised and
    blutterbunged then thrown off guard... i'm all giddy about it ;)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 A4 (Windows)
    * Origin: Twinkle BBS [Albuquerque, NM] (46:1/167)
  • From Skuz@46:1/167 to g00r00 on Thursday, November 05, 2015 16:54:16
    On 11/05/15, g00r00 said the following...

    It looks like it passed with flying colors. No re-tear from FastEcho
    and the ANSI looks/works great!

    Indeed, was there ever any doubt that this would be the game changer..

    For now I am going to close the book and assume the ANSI embedded stuff
    is good to go!

    Excellent work, looking forward to the next book ...turn the page.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 A4 (Windows)
    * Origin: Twinkle BBS [Albuquerque, NM] (46:1/167)
  • From NuSkooler@46:1/140 to g00r00 on Monday, November 09, 2015 21:52:06
    $ g00r00 was quoted saying . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I'm not sure hes really talking about how to handle kludge lines but I
    could be wrong. I think he's asking if there is a way to identify a
    message as ANSI.
    My answer to that is "does it have ANSI in it?" thats how I tell! :)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    This was mostly what I was asking. It seems to me it would be good to identify ANSI messages in some way and how they should be processed. Readers that can handle how they are stored can do whatever agreed upon (ala some sort of spec) processing necessary while other "dumb" readers can just do whatever the hell they do.

    I almost think it would be better to send this stuff as base64 or similar with a ID kludge. That way, all the various mailers can bork the thing all they
    want but at the end of hte day the base64 can be easily reassembed and decoded into a proper ANSI.

    --- Enthral BBS v.635 (PI/2 Linux armv7l)
    * Origin: haunting The chapel >>--> htc.zapto.org <--<< (46:1/140)
  • From g00r00@46:1/127 to NuSkooler on Tuesday, November 10, 2015 04:42:43
    This was mostly what I was asking. It seems to me it would be good to identify ANSI messages in some way and how they should be processed.

    The ANSI escape sequences within the text identify the message. There is no universal way to communicate between every BBS and network type, so its not possible to do what you're saying unless we embed something directly in the message text.

    Not only would that change the way the message displays for BBSes that do not support this "kludge", but the code required to parse through a message is more complex. You'd have to search for a certain text combination in a certain position within the message and then remove it.

    Why go through all of that when you can determine if a message has any ANSI escape sequence with a single line of code instead? It'd be nice if PKT and QWK had a "ANSI" flag that we could easily flip, but thats not the case.

    I almost think it would be better to send this stuff as base64 or
    similar with a ID kludge. That way, all the various mailers can bork the thing all they want but at the end of hte day the base64 can be easily reassembed and decoded into a proper ANSI.

    I don't understand what you mean when you say "all of the mailers can bork the thing all they want"? What is wrong with sending it how its been done for the past 30 years? There isn't any issue with transmission (and mailers do not look at message content)

    You're saying we should convert the ANSI into a different format, then send it, and then convert it back to its original format. But why do that when it can just be sent as it is? What is the purpose?

    On the other side, it'd make Mystic incompatible with other BBS software that do not have code in place to decode the base64 messages. WWIV would no longer display the ANSI messages, for example.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A1 (Windows)
    * Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (46:1/127)
  • From NuSkooler@46:1/166 to g00r00 on Sunday, November 22, 2015 23:49:40
    Why go through all of that when you can determine if a message has any ANS
    escape sequence with a single line of code instead? It'd be nice if PKT a
    QWK had a "ANSI" flag that we could easily flip, but thats not the case.

    I made a point to go through the ANSI's people have been posting in various
    BBS softs (by way of various boards I'm a member of). So far, I can view them in *recent* versions of Mystic, and WWIV. No others have displayed them correctly.

    This says to me that simply sending ANSI's isn't the answer as systems *already* have a problem displaying them. The systems that do display them correctly are in active development.

    Problem #2 is some mailers *do* fuck with the formatting. They shouldn't, but some do. So the idea I had was to come up with a spec that all active dev
    softs could quickly implement & use. Encoding the text in a way that allows
    the contents to be changed (e.g. line endings changed/inserted/etc.) could
    make them more resilient. Detecting ANSI esc sequences is easy, yes, but a kludge to identify that the thing should be handled special may be nice.


    --- DayDream BBS/UNIX (Linux) 2.15a
    * Origin: Alcoholiday! / alky.duckdns.org (46:1/166)
  • From g00r00@46:1/127 to NuSkooler on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 21:39:18
    I made a point to go through the ANSI's people have been posting in various BBS softs (by way of various boards I'm a member of). So far, I can view them in *recent* versions of Mystic, and WWIV. No others have displayed them correctly.

    Ok? There are plenty of others of course, but what does that matter?

    To clarify, Mystic has supported it since the 1990s just not in the full screen reader. Its not recent at all and I'm not sure if you truely are "new
    school" here, but a lot of old software can view them if they're formatted correctly.

    Telegard is an easy one to test since it supports JAM bases. Copy a Mystic AGN-ART JAM base into a *20 year old copy of Telegard* and it displays the ANSI just fine.

    This says to me that simply sending ANSI's isn't the answer as systems *already* have a problem displaying them. The systems that do display
    them correctly are in active development.

    WWIVnet has been doing ANSI messages bases since the 1980s, this isn't a new innovation. I used to see ANSI in bases frequently back in the 90s and a ton of software *can* show it if its posted properly (which Mystic automatically does for you in 1.11)

    I just don't understand your logic here. You are saying Mystic should not support the ANSI message bases that have been around for 30 years as it is, because a certain BBS software you use can't support them? Isn't that the fault of THAT BBS software?

    Even if a flag were added or encoding were added like I said it'd only complicate things and break existing software. It wouldn't magically make
    old software work...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A1 (Windows)
    * Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (46:1/127)