can someone please explain something to me... after all this time, why are proprietary color coding sequences still being used? they're all the same!
all the color charts are the same for foreground and background colors... blinking and inverse... every one of them is based on ANSI... only the
initial code sequence indicating that it is a color code it different... some have two characters, others have one character... isn't is long past time
that they're all consolidated into one common ground?

this may come as a shock to (some) folks but i do like colors... i used to do quite a lot of color code stuffs back in the day... my messages used to go
out looking like want disney had puked all over them but depending on which
set of codes i used as to whether they were displayed as desired (not properly!) or not on all the systems that received those messages...

i can't fathom that the NIH syndrome still exists today... especially in today's reduced BBS developer atmosphere... unless i'm mistaken, all the current developers of software used today are present so why can't they get together and decide which format to support? just drop all the old stuffs and consolidate everything into one format? especially since they're all the same with only the initial leading character or two being different???

i mean, really? each code gets run through a tiny routine that converts the starting character or two to an ANSI sequence and that is what is ultimately output to the user's terminal... yeah, i have some code here that has three
or four little routines to perform this for each type of color code
sequence... when i was coding for AVATAR support, my eyes were really opened and then it suddenly fell into place that this was exactly the same thing
being done for all these other codes... AVATAR support, though, is like
ANSI... it is what is transmitted to the user for display in their
terminal... the only thing that is different is the starting portion of the sequence indicating that it is a color sequence...

""can't we all just get along?"" ;)

--- Mystic BBS v1.10 A57 (Windows)
* Origin: (46:1/132)

can someone please explain something to me... after all this time, why
are proprietary color coding sequences still being used? they're all the

Well, I can tell you why colors codes are used in general. They're an "ASCII clean" way to transmit color information over a BBS and its less complicated than parsing ANSI. Its also much easier for a person to remember <pipe>12 is red than it is to type ESC[0;1;42m, and its much easier for the software to handle too.

different... some have two characters, others have one character...
isn't is long past time that they're all consolidated into one common ground?

It'd be great if we could do that, but we have 30 years of different ways to do things. I'd say pipe colors are the closest to being universal, but you won't get everyone involved if you tried. WWIV and Ezycom? Maybe...

But there are developers like Santronics who I don't think really are involved or care about BBSes these days (they just sell one for $2500 lol). I would guess there is little chance they'd get on board. BBBS, etc?

color code sequence... when i was coding for AVATAR support, my eyes
were really opened and then it suddenly fell into place that this was exactly the same thing being done for all these other codes... AVATAR support, though, is like ANSI... it is what is transmitted to the user
for display in their terminal... the only thing that is different is the

AVATAR was a waste of time, so yeah I can see why you came to that conclusion. Maybe back at 300 baud it made sense, but then again, back then they were changing the specifications without increasing versions or providing a way to detect it so you had a fragmented implementation.

By the time it was ready to be useful, its 20% efficency was pretty much unnoticable. Thats why I never bothered with it.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A3 (Windows)
* Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (46:1/127)

On 02/13/16, wkitty42 said the following...

can someone please explain something to me... after all this time, why
are proprietary color coding sequences still being used? they're all the same! all the color charts are the same for foreground and background colors... blinking and inverse... every one of them is based on ANSI... only the initial code sequence indicating that it is a color code it different... some have two characters, others have one character...
isn't is long past time that they're all consolidated into one common ground?

I think that (with WWIV at least) a user can change their default color
codes, so that it may be green by default to one user, might be red to a user who changed his configuration. That's not something that can be done with
ANSI screens.

"No matter where you go, there you are!" - Buckaroo Bonzai

--- Mystic BBS v1.11 (Raspberry Pi)
* Origin: Cyberia BBS | Cyberia.Darktech.Org | Kingwood, TX (46:1/116)

♥9g>♥5 Well, I can tell you why colors codes are used in general. They're an♥0 ♥9g>♥5 "ASCII clean" way to transmit color information over a BBS and its less♥0
♥9g>♥5 complicated than parsing ANSI. Its also much easier for a person to♥0 ♥9g>♥5 remember <pipe>12 is red than it is to type ESC[0;1;42m, and its much♥0 ♥9g>♥5 easier for the software to handle too.♥0

That is exactly why WWIV started with the heart codes along time ago. You just
type in Control-P, followed by a number 1-7 and your text color changes inthe editor.

I will have to follow-up, but believe pipe codes are allowed in the editor now and they might have even removed the heart codes. Will have to check on that since I seem to remember Rushfan mentioning something to that effect. I'm still using the "classic" 4.24a here which is heavily modded.

♥9g>♥5 It'd be great if we could do that, but we have 30 years of different ways♥0
♥9g>♥5 to do things. I'd say pipe colors are the closest to being universal, but♥0
♥9g>♥5 you won't get everyone involved if you tried. WWIV and Ezycom? Maybe...♥0

WWIV should be covered. I know we can see the pipe colors. WWIV can view the heart colors codes, pipes, or native ANSI.

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.51
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (46:1/263.0)

♥9G>♥5 I think that (with WWIV at least) a user can change their default color♥0
♥9G>♥5 codes, so that it may be green by default to one user, might be red to a♥0
♥9G>♥5 user who changed his configuration. That's not something that can be done♥0
♥9G>♥5 with ANSI screens.♥0

That is true. You can change the default colors on a per user basis. Not many
people do that these days, but it is possible.

♥1This shows up an Cyan. ♥2This is yellow. ♥3This is light purple...♥0

Those same colors could be something different to each person if they changed their default colors.

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.51
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (46:1/263.0)

That is true. You can change the default colors on a per user basis.
Not many people do that these days, but it is possible.

This shows up an Cyan. This is yellow. This is light purple...

Yep they're redefinable in WWIV which is one reasons why they're not good outside of your own BBS. I actually see dark purple instead of light here because that is what I was told the default was.

Since pipe codes 00-31 give access to every foreground and background combination, they're much better suited for cross-BBS colors. Its the least cryptic and if you're not setting the background color often its also the most efficient of the common code formats.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A3 (Windows)
* Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (46:1/127)

♥9g>♥5 Yep they're redefinable in WWIV which is one reasons why they're not good♥0
♥9g>♥5 outside of your own BBS. I actually see dark purple instead of light here♥0
♥9g>♥5 because that is what I was told the default was.♥0
♥9g>♥5 ♥0
♥9g>♥5 Since pipe codes 00-31 give access to every foreground and background♥0 ♥9g>♥5 combination, they're much better suited for cross-BBS colors. Its the♥0 ♥9g>♥5 least cryptic and if you're not setting the background color often its♥0 ♥9g>♥5 also the most efficient of the common code formats.♥0

Agreed. The nice thing about using the heart colors in WWIV is they show up in
my editor. I can't seem to make the pipe colors show up in the editor.

Here is the link to the latest on WWIV and pipe colors:

http://gp-docs-test.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ansi/

My version only allows for the heart codes. I'm sure I could add pipe colors in my message but I wouldn't see the results locally like I do with the heart colors.

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.51
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (46:1/263.0)

$ WEATHERMAN36R was quoted saying . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My version only allows for the heart codes. I'm sure I could add pipe
colors in my message but I wouldn't see the results locally like I do with the heart colors.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Shouldn't be too hard to add pipe color parsing to the messages editor.

--- Enthral BBS v.635 (PI/2 Linux armv7l)
* Origin: haunting The chapel >>--> htc.zapto.org <--<< (46:1/140)

g00r00 wrote in a message to wkitty42:

It'd be great if we could do that, but we have 30 years of different
ways to do things. I'd say pipe colors are the closest to being
universal, but you won't get everyone involved if you tried. WWIV
and Ezycom? Maybe...

Laugh, Ezycom recently got pipe codes, but it's not the Renegade style ones.
I lost the last argument with Stephen about that. hahaha

Having said that if you, Stephen and Rob all agreed on one standard I bet we could get him on board. :)

Shawn
... Don't look at me in that tone of voice!
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Tiny's Trailer (46:1/126.1)

Laugh, Ezycom recently got pipe codes, but it's not the Renegade style ones. I lost the last argument with Stephen about that. hahaha

Really? What does it use?

Having said that if you, Stephen and Rob all agreed on one standard I bet we could get him on board. :)

Mystic and Synchronet already do support the Renegade-style

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A3 (Windows)
* Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (46:1/127)

g00r00 wrote in a message to Tiny:

Really? What does it use?

Some weird hybrid pipe thing now. Still supports the old CTRLP CTRLK codes as well.
<File Insert>
+============================================================================+
| |
| Pipe Colour Chart |
| |
| Foreground B = High Intensity Blue b = Low Intensity Blue |
| G = High Intensity Green g = Low Intensity Green |
| C = High Intensity Cyan c = Low Intensity Cyan |
| R = High Intensity Red r = Low Intensity Red |
| M = High Intensity Magenta m = Low Intensity Magenta |
| Y = High Intensity Yellow y = Low Intensity Yellow |
| W = High Intensity White w = Low Intensity White |
| |
| Background 0 = Low Intensity Black 1 = Low Intensity Blue |
| 2 = Low Intensity Green 3 = Low Intensity Cyan |
| 4 = Low Intensity Red 5 = Low Intensity Magenta |
| 6 = Low Intensity Yellow 7 = Low Intensity White |
| |
| eg. |W1 = Bright White Text on a Blue Background |
| |
| |@@ = Your DEFAULT background colour on the BBS |
| |
+============================================================================+

Not sure if that will format correctly, but you should be able to make it out.

Mystic and Synchronet already do support the Renegade-style

Which I like. ;) I'm not against the pipe ones he has, in a lot of ways they
make more sense, but it's just not what I'm used to. ;)

Shawn
... Some people confuse boredom with security.
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Tiny's Trailer (46:1/126.1)

Which I like. ;) I'm not against the pipe ones he has, in a lot of
ways they make more sense, but it's just not what I'm used to. ;)

It just seems sort of pointless to add something no one else is using, when there are plenty of existing variations (and one in particular that is widely used).

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A3 (Windows)
* Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (46:1/127)

Laugh, Ezycom recently got pipe codes, but it's not the Renegade style one

I lost the last argument with Stephen about that. hahaha

Having said that if you, Stephen and Rob all agreed on one standard I bet

could get him on board. :)

Then again, I _COULD_ try modifying the online message reading routine
in Wildcat! to support pipe color codes and heart codes if I had a
little more information on each.

Ah, the benefits of having the wcBASIC Plus Pack :)

... True Multitasking = 3 PCs and a chair with wheels!
--- Wildcat! v6.4.454.2 (Nov 17 2011), Editor Mod v2.0
* Origin: Neptune's Lair * Memphis TN * winserver.org (46:1/152)

Robert Wolfe wrote in a message to Tiny:

Then again, I _COULD_ try modifying the online message reading
routine in Wildcat! to support pipe color codes and heart codes if
I had a little more information on each.

There is no reason you couldn't do it. The entire telnet side of the BBS is written in WCBasic. Same with the quote character. It's in there my friend I'm 95% positive I had found it when I was looking for something else.

I've got my old VM that ran WINS saved on a HDD somewhere, I'll try to find it and "remove networking" so I can launch WINS and see if I can find my wcbasic code and notes file.

Shawn
... Don't try this at home... We are PROFESSIONAL idiots!
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Tiny's Trailer (46:1/126.1)

Then again, I _COULD_ try modifying the online message reading routine
in Wildcat! to support pipe color codes and heart codes if I had a
little more information on each.

The heart codes are "dynamic" and just about everything does it differently
so its not really good for networked bases. But the Mystic-style pipe codes are pretty widely in many softwares and I believe those are what should be supported.

Here's a chapter from the Mystic docs (removed Mystic's theme color codes):

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
A.3 COLOR CHANGING CODES (PIPE COLOR CODES)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The typical pipe format of <pipe>## where ## is one of the following:

00 : Sets the current foreground to Black
01 : Sets the current foreground to Dark Blue
02 : Sets the current foreground to Dark Green
03 : Sets the current foreground to Dark Cyan
04 : Sets the current foreground to Dark Red
05 : Sets the current foreground to Dark Magenta
06 : Sets the current foreground to Brown
07 : Sets the current foreground to Grey
08 : Sets the current foreground to Dark Grey
09 : Sets the current foreground to Light Blue
10 : Sets the current foreground to Light Green
11 : Sets the current foreground to Light Cyan
12 : Sets the current foreground to Light Red
13 : Sets the current foreground to Light Magenta
14 : Sets the current foreground to Yellow
15 : Sets the current foreground to White

16 : Sets the current background to Black
17 : Sets the current background to Blue
18 : Sets the current background to Green
19 : Sets the current background to Cyan
20 : Sets the current background to Red
21 : Sets the current background to Magenta
22 : Sets the current background to Brown
23 : Sets the current background to Grey

Depending on the terminal the 24-31 codes can have different results. Some
terminals will use iCE colors which are the non-blinking brighter
backgrounds. Others may use blinking text instead.

TERMINALS THAT USE BRIGHT BACKGROUNDS (ICE COLORS):

24 : Sets the current background to Dark Grey
25 : Sets the current background to Light Blue
26 : Sets the current background to Light Green
27 : Sets the current background to Light Cyan
28 : Sets the current background to Light Red
29 : Sets the current background to Light Magenta
30 : Sets the current background to light Yellow
31 : Sets the current background to light White

TERMINALS THAT USE BLINKING:

24 : Sets the current background to black with blinking foreground
25 : Sets the current background to blue with blinking foreground
26 : Sets the current background to green with blinking foreground
27 : Sets the current background to cyan with blinking foreground
28 : Sets the current background to red with blinking foreground
29 : Sets the current background to magenta with blinking foreground
30 : Sets the current background to brown with blinking foreground
31 : Sets the current background to grey with blinking foreground

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A3 (Windows)
* Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (46:1/127)

♥9g>♥5 Here's a chapter from the Mystic docs (removed Mystic's theme color♥0 ♥9g>♥5 codes):♥0
♥9g>♥5 -------------------------------------------------------------------------♥0
♥9g>♥5 A.3 COLOR CHANGING CODES (PIPE COLOR CODES)♥0
♥9g>♥5 -------------------------------------------------------------------------♥0
♥9g>♥5 ♥0
♥9g>♥5 The typical pipe format of <pipe>## where ## is one of the following:♥0 ♥9g>♥5 ♥0
♥9g>♥5 00 : Sets the current foreground to Black♥0
♥9g>♥5 01 : Sets the current foreground to Dark Blue♥0
♥9g>♥5 02 : Sets the current foreground to Dark Green♥0
♥9g>♥5 03 : Sets the current foreground to Dark Cyan♥0
♥9g>♥5 04 : Sets the current foreground to Dark Red♥0

|01 So, does this show up as Dark Blue?

My local editor doesn't display colors using the pipe format. Using WWIVEdit, but will show the heart colors.

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.51
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (46:1/263.0)

♥9W>♥5 |01 So, does this show up as Dark Blue?♥0
♥9W>♥5 ♥0
♥9W>♥5 My local editor doesn't display colors using the pipe format. Using♥0 ♥9W>♥5 WWIVEdit, but will show the heart colors.♥0

Cool, I just answered my own question.

Even though it doesn't show up in my editor, when I read my own message it shows up in Dark Blue.

Maybe I should work on updating WWIVEdit to display the pipe codes in addition to the heart codes. I'm just not a Pascal expert. Not sure how difficult that
would be.

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.51
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (46:1/263.0)

On 2/16/2016 7:19 AM, Tiny wrote to Robert Wolfe:

There is no reason you couldn't do it. The entire telnet side of the BBS

is

written in WCBasic. Same with the quote character. It's in there my friend I'm 95% positive I had found it when I was looking for something else.

I've got my old VM that ran WINS saved on a HDD somewhere, I'll try to

find

it and "remove networking" so I can launch WINS and see if I can find my wcbasic code and notes file.

Ok, thanks (replying from the web interface here). That would be great to have
and I am
sure the information will be useful as well. I will see if I can't go through the editor.wcc
file again and see what I can come up with :)
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
* Origin: Neptune's Lair * Memphis TN * winserver.org (46:1/152)

So, does this show up as Dark Blue?

My local editor doesn't display colors using the pipe format. Using WWIVEdit, but will show the heart colors.

Yep that was dark blue.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A3 (Windows)
* Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (46:1/127)