ARELOR wrote to <=-

once the election is over this will go away like a fart in a hurricane.

Only if Trump loses IMO.

LOL - I agree 100%!

But I am a cynic, what do I know :-)

I am keeping tight isolation messures myself. I have always been an introvert so now I have a golden excuse. I also think being careful oneself is not a bad thing to do.

My wife says, "I was social distancing before it was cool."

:-)



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MORTIFIS wrote to PAULIE420 <=-

I am, sorry, I did not mean to slap you or anyone, and, in my opinion, everyone's thoughts about these issues are equally valid, on all sides
of the fence!

Now THIS we can agree on! I believe there is such a thing as personal
freedom and personal choice. I don't "NOT" wear a mask because I want
you or anyone else to get sick, but I am not convinced that ME wearing
a mask is protecting anyone, even me.

I appreciate your consideration. You have helped me see things from a different perspective as well ... this whole global situation is not
about any individual but about us all as a collective.

This is part of the issue to me - I feel like a lot of this is being
blamed on 'what's for the greater good.'




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Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: JIMMY ANDERSON to MORTIFIS on Mon Jul 13 2020 09:42 am

Now THIS we can agree on! I believe there is such a thing as personal freedom and personal choice. I don't "NOT" wear a mask because I want
you or anyone else to get sick, but I am not convinced that ME wearing
a mask is protecting anyone, even me.

Glad you asked, put on a mask.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/ho40c4/if_someone_asks_whats_the_evidence_for_mask/

A list of 70 published studies that show why. It's actually rude to not wear one since you are protecting others around you.

---TLM

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Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: The Lizard Master to JIMMY ANDERSON on Wed Jul 15 2020 03:23 pm

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: JIMMY ANDERSON to MORTIFIS on Mon Jul 13 2020 09:42 am

Now THIS we can agree on! I believe there is such a thing as personal freedom and personal choice. I don't "NOT" wear a mask because I want
you or anyone else to get sick, but I am not convinced that ME wearing
a mask is protecting anyone, even me.

Glad you asked, put on a mask.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/ho40c4/if_someone_asks_whats_t evidence_for_mask/

A list of 70 published studies that show why. It's actually rude to not wea one since you are protecting others around you.

yeah but i want everyone around me to die. so i guess no mask for me.
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Utopian Galt wrote to Dr. What <=-

We don't shut down the whole country and allow totalitarian "leaders" to dictate what we must do.

I think its due to the left desperately wanting to sink President Trump
at ANY cost.

Without a doubt. Here in Michigan, our "governor" keeps declaring an emergency over COVID, even though their own (inflated) numbers show that it's impacting less than 1% of the population and has killed 0.06% of the population.

She keeps demanding that certain businesses stay closed or severely restricted because of "science and data". But when asked what "science and data" all we get a vague hand waving and mumbles of "experts" (I presume the ones that are out, standing in their field).

It's pretty obvious that her plan is to keep the economy in the toilet until election day and try to blame everything on Trump.


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The Lizard Master wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/ho40c4/if_someone_asks_wha ts_the_evidence_for_mask/

A list of 70 published studies that show why. It's actually rude to
not wear one since you are protecting others around you.

A pile of Leftie BS is still BS.

Even the CDC and WHO say that there is no evidence that wearing a mask will protect you.

There is only 1 case where wearing a mask will help: if you are infected and you need to go out.

So if you've been tested and you have the COVID antibody - you don't need to wear a mask. That's the majority of the population now.

The down side to doing this is that you will slow the spread (which we've already done - remember the "flatten the curve" goal post that got moved?) and slow down herd immunity.

So the only REAL case where you should wear a mask: When you go to visit Grandma in the nursing home. Oh, wait! We can't do that right now - yet Leftie governors can send COVID patients into those same nursing homes.


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Dr. What wrote to The Lizard Master <=-

The Lizard Master wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/ho40c4/if_someone_asks_wha ts_the_evidence_for_mask/

A list of 70 published studies that show why. It's actually rude to
not wear one since you are protecting others around you.

A pile of Leftie BS is still BS.

Even the CDC and WHO say that there is no evidence that wearing a mask will protect you.

There is only 1 case where wearing a mask will help: if you are
infected and you need to go out.

So if you've been tested and you have the COVID antibody - you don't
need to wear a mask. That's the majority of the population now.

The down side to doing this is that you will slow the spread (which
we've already done - remember the "flatten the curve" goal post that
got moved?) and slow down herd immunity.

So the only REAL case where you should wear a mask: When you go to
visit Grandma in the nursing home. Oh, wait! We can't do that right
now - yet Leftie governors can send COVID patients into those same
nursing homes.

Wearking masks while out will be mandatory in Melbourne come Thursday. The problem with "flattening the curve" is exponential growth. We have 21 patients in intensive care in Victoria, doesn't seem that high a number, but there aren't exactly a huge number of Intensive Care beds. If you have only a few cases, with no restrictions, it doubles every few days.

They should have from the start said that the number of cases must be kept close to zero.

I think the Quarantining needs to be targetted towards those most vulnerable.

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Dennisk wrote to Dr. What <=-

Wearking masks while out will be mandatory in Melbourne come Thursday.

So I see the Leftie Narrative is alive and well in Australia. Sorry.

The problem with "flattening the curve" is exponential growth. We have
21 patients in intensive care in Victoria, doesn't seem that high a number, but there aren't exactly a huge number of Intensive Care beds.
If you have only a few cases, with no restrictions, it doubles every
few days.

They should have from the start said that the number of cases must be
kept close to zero.

But here's the problem: You can't stop it. Zero cases is not possible. It's a virus.

The best you can hope for is, like you said, "flattening the curve" - which is nothing more than not allowing your hospitals to become overrun so that they can save the ones who can be saved.

But all the models used so far have been completely wrong. And I don't mean by a little bit. I mean by orders of magnetude. Here in the U.S., we could have "flattened the curve" by doing nothing more than what we normally do for the flu season.

I think the Quarantining needs to be targetted towards those most vulnerable.

Exactly. Quarantine those who are elderly (and not put COVID patients in their nursing homes like at least 2 "leaders" did here in the U.S.) and immunocompromised. If you are showing symptoms, use a mask to reduce the spread.

But for everyone else, it's business as usual and pretend flu season is still going on.

Resign yourself to the fact that you will probably get it. 80% of us won't even know it and get over it. 20% will show some sort of symptoms. For 2% those symptoms will be severe enought to merit hospicalization. And, unfortunately, for 6 out of 10000, it will be fatal (that's based on the grossly inflated COVID numbers that I've seen for the my area in the U.S.).

What our "leaders" fail to understand is that no mask mandate or economic shutdown will change those numbers.


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Dr. What wrote to Dennisk <=-

Dennisk wrote to Dr. What <=-

Wearking masks while out will be mandatory in Melbourne come Thursday.

So I see the Leftie Narrative is alive and well in Australia. Sorry.

The problem with "flattening the curve" is exponential growth. We have
21 patients in intensive care in Victoria, doesn't seem that high a number, but there aren't exactly a huge number of Intensive Care beds.
If you have only a few cases, with no restrictions, it doubles every
few days.

They should have from the start said that the number of cases must be
kept close to zero.

But here's the problem: You can't stop it. Zero cases is not
possible. It's a virus.

The best you can hope for is, like you said, "flattening the curve" - which is nothing more than not allowing your hospitals to become
overrun so that they can save the ones who can be saved.

But all the models used so far have been completely wrong. And I don't mean by a little bit. I mean by orders of magnetude. Here in the
U.S., we could have "flattened the curve" by doing nothing more than
what we normally do for the flu season.

I agree. Zero cases is exceptionally difficult. Possible if you are an isolated, small nation, but to KEEP it that way, you have to close your borders to the world until the rest of the world is over it.

People are pushing for elimination, which is theoretically possible, but it isn't practical. It relies on everyone, and I mean everyone, following the rules. If you think the entire nation is going to abide by guidelines, you're delusional.

This is why cases in Melbourne have spiked again. People were holding large family gatherings for a religious holidays, contractors who were supposed to be engaging in security for a hotel quarantining guests where having sex with them! They are blaming training, messaging, but the reality is some people just don't care. And even those that done, one slip up, one necessary exemption. People still have to go to work. A lot of people seem to not understand that many, many people still have to travel and go to work and gather to keep people fed, clothed, keep the power on, medicines available.

So in the end, all these jobs lots, a generations worth of debt just added on, the economic chaos, and we may end up having to just let it burn through anyway...

I think the Quarantining needs to be targetted towards those most vulnerable.

Exactly. Quarantine those who are elderly (and not put COVID patients
in their nursing homes like at least 2 "leaders" did here in the U.S.)
and immunocompromised. If you are showing symptoms, use a mask to
reduce the spread.

But for everyone else, it's business as usual and pretend flu season is still going on.

Resign yourself to the fact that you will probably get it. 80% of us won't even know it and get over it. 20% will show some sort of
symptoms. For 2% those symptoms will be severe enought to merit hospicalization. And, unfortunately, for 6 out of 10000, it will be
fatal (that's based on the grossly inflated COVID numbers that I've
seen for the my area in the U.S.).

What our "leaders" fail to understand is that no mask mandate or
economic shutdown will change those numbers.

I think in the West there is this idea that we can change reality at very fundamental levels, however it suits us, and the hard reality of nature and her limitations can always be overcome.

It's too late to stop the virus. It should have been done early on, in December/January, when it WAS contained by virtue of it being new and still within China. Instead they prevaricated, engagined in containment too late. (Oh, and China was CRITICAL of countries which did this too.)
As always, they do nothing as the dog bolts, then try to talk the dog back later on when what you've been warned would happen, does happen. I do believe COVID-19 is a big deal, but now its too late.

They ALWAYS do this.

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Dennisk wrote to Dr. What <=-

People are pushing for elimination, which is theoretically possible,
but it isn't practical. It relies on everyone, and I mean everyone, following the rules. If you think the entire nation is going to abide
by guidelines, you're delusional.

Even if you "followed the rules", you can't contain a virus and maintain some level of social contact. The best the rules hope for is slowing the spread.

This is why cases in Melbourne have spiked again.

But cases are misleading. I want to see the numbers of hospitalizations and deaths from large gatherings. Remember, 80% won't even show symptoms. So testing gives a false indication. What we want is reduced deaths and hospitalizations.

where having sex with them! They are blaming training, messaging, but
the reality is some people just don't care.

But back to the 80% fact. The vast majority of these people getting together in large groups won't show symptoms or have symptoms that even require hospitalizations. So, ya, they don't care. It doesn't have much, if any, impact on them.

It's too late to stop the virus.

IHMO: It was never possible to stop it. The best we could hope for is slow spread and we got that.

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Dr. What wrote to Dennisk <=-

Dennisk wrote to Dr. What <=-

People are pushing for elimination, which is theoretically possible,
but it isn't practical. It relies on everyone, and I mean everyone, following the rules. If you think the entire nation is going to abide
by guidelines, you're delusional.

Even if you "followed the rules", you can't contain a virus and
maintain some level of social contact. The best the rules hope for is slowing the spread.

That was the idea of "flattening the curve". The area under the curve (total number of cases overall) may remain the same, it would have a lower peak.

This is why cases in Melbourne have spiked again.

But cases are misleading. I want to see the numbers of
hospitalizations and deaths from large gatherings. Remember, 80% won't even show symptoms. So testing gives a false indication. What we want
is reduced deaths and hospitalizations.

No, testing can give a good indication. From mass testing you can get an idea of the rate of incidences in the community, and compare this against other areas with how many people their tests are picking up. The total number of cases is higher than that confirmed, but testing will give you a good indication as to the overall rate.

People were arguing in Victoria that we were having more cases, only because we were testing more, but that isn't true. It is the number of cases per N tests which gives the indication.

And once the virus is spreading, it is difficult to attribute the cases to this or that gathering.

I do understand that for many this virus isn't a problem, but nevertheless, rampant spreading is a major issue as well. This is a new virus, which has no barriers to rapid transmission. That is what makes it different. Similar measures were taken in 1919 during the Spanish Flu.

where having sex with them! They are blaming training, messaging, but
the reality is some people just don't care.

But back to the 80% fact. The vast majority of these people getting together in large groups won't show symptoms or have symptoms that even require hospitalizations. So, ya, they don't care. It doesn't have
much, if any, impact on them.

They failed to do their job. They weren't there to protect the crown jewels, it was specifically to ensure that the hotel remained an effective quarantine measure. Common sense tells you that if someone is in quarantine during a pandemic, and you have to maintain distance, then intimate relations are out.

It's too late to stop the virus.

IHMO: It was never possible to stop it. The best we could hope for is slow spread and we got that.

Time will tell, but if it is found that it was from a lab, it could have been stopped. And it appears that it could very well have been from an accident in a lab.

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Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Dr. What to Dennisk on Wed Jul 22 2020 12:42 pm

But cases are misleading. I want to see the numbers of hospitalizations and deaths from large gatherings. Remember, 80% won't even show symptoms. So testing gives a false indication. What we want is reduced deaths and hospitalizations.

Something concerning, and that nobody is talking about, is that you may get the virus, survive, and develop complications.

Here at the clinic we are having cases of people who gets the virus, survives the virus, and ends in a wheelchair from complications from the virus. That people makes it to the list of "cured" people, which makes the population happy, but it casts an unrealistic light on the events.

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Dennisk wrote to Dr. What <=-

No, testing can give a good indication. From mass testing you can get
an idea of the rate of incidences in the community, and compare this against other areas with how many people their tests are picking up.
The total number of cases is higher than that confirmed, but testing
will give you a good indication as to the overall rate.

But if the people being tested are asymptomatic, what difference does it make?

The vast majority of people will get it. So the focus should be on number of hospitalizations since that's the indication of the real problem: overloading the health care system.

General testing just shows the number of people who currently have it. But 98% won't need hospitalization.

I'm kinda sensitive to "cases" right now because the Lefties here in the U.S. are using case numbers as a scare tactic to keep people in fear and under control. They are lumping positive antibody cases into those numbers to inflate them.

People were arguing in Victoria that we were having more cases, only because we were testing more, but that isn't true. It is the number of cases per N tests which gives the indication.

Here in the U.S. it is true. The number of cases is growing with the number
of tests.

And how bad is a disease if you have to do a test to see if you have it?

And once the virus is spreading, it is difficult to attribute the cases
to this or that gathering.

Which I consider irrelevant other than to point blame, which is pointless.

I do understand that for many this virus isn't a problem, but nevertheless, rampant spreading is a major issue as well.

No, actually it isn't an issue. It will spread. You can't stop that, no matter what. The faster the spread, the faster we reach herd immunity and
the disease is no longer a thrreat. We just need to keep the high risk people safe until then.

This is a new virus, which has no barriers to rapid transmission.

False. It does not impact the young healthy population. They quickly recover, gain immunity and the spread stops. We've already proven that schools can reopen because children don't spread it and don't get sick.

We know that it spreads primarily from close contact with an infected person (so
keeping people cooped up in their homes with close relatives, or in New York, in apartment buildings with shared air circulation) spreads the disease faster.

Similar measures were taken in 1919 during the Spanish Flu.

Which doesn't make what we are doing today correct. As you've accurately said, "This is a new virus".

They failed to do their job. They weren't there to protect the crown jewels, it was specifically to ensure that the hotel remained an
effective quarantine measure. Common sense tells you that if someone
is in quarantine during a pandemic, and you have to maintain distance, then intimate relations are out.

But none of them were known to be infected. You don't quarantine the healthy. You quarantine the infected. That's another mistake that we made with this disease.

Time will tell, but if it is found that it was from a lab, it could
have been stopped. And it appears that it could very well have been
from an accident in a lab.

No. It could not have been stopped. But it could have been prevented.

All these recent diseases like COVID-19 have the same source: commercialization of animals for food and poor living conditions for animals. The poor living conditions lower immune systems of the animals, making it easier for a disease to spread - and mutate. The high mutation rate is how it moves to humans.

So if China were to simply clean up their meat markets, the disease would not have happened in the first place.


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My wife says, "I was social distancing before it was cool."

:-)

Yup! I've never liked people in my space and my wife always tells me I'd make a great hermit!! :) Maybe too many experiences through the years with people that just suck.

-=Thumper=-
Sysop

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Dr. What wrote to Dennisk <=-

Dennisk wrote to Dr. What <=-

No, testing can give a good indication. From mass testing you can get
an idea of the rate of incidences in the community, and compare this against other areas with how many people their tests are picking up.
The total number of cases is higher than that confirmed, but testing
will give you a good indication as to the overall rate.

But if the people being tested are asymptomatic, what difference does
it make?

The vast majority of people will get it. So the focus should be on
number of hospitalizations since that's the indication of the real problem: overloading the health care system.

General testing just shows the number of people who currently have it.
But 98% won't need hospitalization.

I'm kinda sensitive to "cases" right now because the Lefties here in
the U.S. are using case numbers as a scare tactic to keep people in
fear and under control. They are lumping positive antibody cases into those numbers to inflate them.

People were arguing in Victoria that we were having more cases, only because we were testing more, but that isn't true. It is the number of cases per N tests which gives the indication.

Here in the U.S. it is true. The number of cases is growing with the number of tests.

And how bad is a disease if you have to do a test to see if you have
it?

The problem is the novelty, not the severity. Most viruses which have been around a while have to come accross natural immunity, which limits the spread. And this is deadlier.

There are excess deaths, and this virus has killed as many as would be expected during a bad flu season, WITH controls. Without, the death toll would be much higher. It still will go much higher.

I understand the arguments against excessive control, and maybe at this point there isn't much we can do.

What we need is some realism and honesty from the government, instead of crippling everyone to try and do what cannot be achieved.

And once the virus is spreading, it is difficult to attribute the cases
to this or that gathering.

Which I consider irrelevant other than to point blame, which is
pointless.

I agree.

I do understand that for many this virus isn't a problem, but nevertheless, rampant spreading is a major issue as well.

No, actually it isn't an issue. It will spread. You can't stop that,
no matter what. The faster the spread, the faster we reach herd
immunity and the disease is no longer a thrreat. We just need to keep
the high risk people safe until then.

What we know is that the mortality rate is highly dependent on age and existing medical complications. We could reduce the death toll significantly through targetted quarantine. The risk is transmission to elderly, not from young adult to young adult.


The death toll will still be high.

This is a new virus, which has no barriers to rapid transmission.

False. It does not impact the young healthy population. They quickly recover, gain immunity and the spread stops. We've already proven that schools can reopen because children don't spread it and don't get sick.

We know that it spreads primarily from close contact with an infected person (so
keeping people cooped up in their homes with close relatives, or in New York, in apartment buildings with shared air circulation) spreads the disease faster.

Similar measures were taken in 1919 during the Spanish Flu.

Which doesn't make what we are doing today correct. As you've
accurately said, "This is a new virus".

The Spanish Flu was a new virus then. The situation is analogous. I agree that quarantine needs to be targetted, this is an argument I've been making from the start.

Protect the vulnerable.

Transmission is still faster compared to the flu due to a higher R0 value. What is happening in Victoria is evidence of that.

They failed to do their job. They weren't there to protect the crown jewels, it was specifically to ensure that the hotel remained an
effective quarantine measure. Common sense tells you that if someone
is in quarantine during a pandemic, and you have to maintain distance, then intimate relations are out.

But none of them were known to be infected. You don't quarantine the healthy. You quarantine the infected. That's another mistake that we
made with this disease.

That is no excuse. They were paid to do a job and didn't follow instruction. But as you yourself said, many people don't show strong symptoms. By the time you get a positive test result, its too late.

You yourself admit that some people that have this virus will feel healthy. You have people coming from OS, the only reliable way to ascertain they are virus free is through a test, and results take a few days.

I think if there are to be controls, quarantining people coming in from OS is one that is justified.

Time will tell, but if it is found that it was from a lab, it could
have been stopped. And it appears that it could very well have been
from an accident in a lab.

No. It could not have been stopped. But it could have been prevented.

All these recent diseases like COVID-19 have the same source: commercialization of animals for food and poor living conditions for animals. The poor living conditions lower immune systems of the
animals, making it easier for a disease to spread - and mutate. The
high mutation rate is how it moves to humans.

So if China were to simply clean up their meat markets, the disease
would not have happened in the first place.

That would be a benefit, yes. I'm not 100% convinced that is the case THIS time though.

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Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Arelor to Dr. What on Thu Jul 23 2020 08:05 am

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Dr. What to Dennisk on Wed Jul 22 2020 12:42 pm

But cases are misleading. I want to see the numbers of hospitalizations deaths from large gatherings. Remember, 80% won't even show symptoms. S testing gives a false indication. What we want is reduced deaths and hospitalizations.

Something concerning, and that nobody is talking about, is that you may get virus, survive, and develop complications.

Here at the clinic we are having cases of people who gets the virus, survive the virus, and ends in a wheelchair from complications from the virus. That people makes it to the list of "cured" people, which makes the population happy, but it casts an unrealistic light on the events.

--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

It's really freaky to hear about people hit with a mild bout, develop antibodies, then get sick again becauser the antibodies don't stick around
for awhile

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Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Dr. What to Dennisk on Thu Jul 23 2020 09:31 am

So if China were to simply clean up their meat markets, the disease would not have happened in the first place.

i thought it was because they were playing with the virus and trying to out do other countries with research.

anyways, i think the only thing we can do from now on is do advanced medical screening for travelers.
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Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Moondog to Arelor on Thu Jul 23 2020 06:52 pm

It's really freaky to hear about people hit with a mild bout, develop antibodies, then get sick again becauser the antibodies don't stick around for awhile

but we dont even know if that is happening. we dont know much at all
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Arelor wrote to Dr. What <=-

Something concerning, and that nobody is talking about, is that you may get the virus, survive, and develop complications.

Interesting. I have not even heard rumors of this yet. I'll have to keep my eyes open for more information.

Here at the clinic we are having cases of people who gets the virus, survives the virus, and ends in a wheelchair from complications from
the virus. That people makes it to the list of "cured" people, which
makes the population happy, but it casts an unrealistic light on the events.

I think it's too early to see a "shingles effect" from COVID-19.

But it would be interesting to see what the root cause of the long term problem was. Just COVID? A bad drug combination while getting treated for it?

Remember when they told parents to not give their kids asprin when the kids had chicken pox? It caused Reye's Syndrome. I wonder if certain drugs with COVID cause later problems.

I sense a big research grant here.


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Dennisk wrote to Dr. What <=-

The problem is the novelty, not the severity. Most viruses which have been around a while have to come accross natural immunity, which limits the spread. And this is deadlier.

I think you are on the wrong track here. Coronoviruses have been around for quite some time. Our bodies already know how to deal with them - as is evidenced by the very high recovery rate and no-symptom percentage.

What is different is that while other coronoviruses tend to hit the young, COVID-19 tends to hit the old harder. The theory is that for older people their immune system overreacts (hmmm.... sort of like governments) to the virus and that's what's really damaging.


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MRO wrote to Dr. What <=-

So if China were to simply clean up their meat markets, the disease would not have happened in the first place.

i thought it was because they were playing with the virus and trying to out do other countries with research.

That's one of those "ring of truth" theories that sounds good, but falls apart when you really start looking into it.

COVID-19 is related to Swine Flu, SARS and MERS. So far, we've tracked all
the previous ones to domestication (and usually commercialization of) animals.


... Kinky: Using A Feather. Sick: Using The Whole Chicken
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Moondog wrote to Arelor <=-

It's really freaky to hear about people hit with a mild bout, develop antibodies, then get sick again becauser the antibodies don't stick
around for awhile

They are seeing that our T-cells play a role as well.

So if you get it, but your T-cells take it out, you may not be sick long enough to develop antibodies.


... You're not old, You're chronologically disadvantaged
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Dr. What to Arelor on Sat Jul 25 2020 12:26 pm

But it would be interesting to see what the root cause of the long term prob was. Just COVID? A bad drug combination while getting treated for it?

Well, sorry, I am just a sysadmin :-P

I am not getting shown the cases, obviously, but word in the coffee break is that there are lots of X-Ray/Echo/Other revisions for people who survived the virus and ended up trashed as a result (reduced breathing capacity, neorulogical side effects, etc).

At least one case is drug related. The patient developped a known side effect (the typical "you have a 0.003% probability of ending up in comma for taking this") and as far as I have heard won't walk again without clutches.

I don't think the impact is *that* big, but nobody is talking about it in the open, which I find... weird.

--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Dr. What to Dennisk on Sat Jul 25 2020 12:31 pm

Dennisk wrote to Dr. What <=-

The problem is the novelty, not the severity. Most viruses which
have been around a while have to come accross natural immunity,
which limits the spread. And this is deadlier.

I think you are on the wrong track here. Coronoviruses have been around for quite some time. Our bodies already know how to deal with them - as is evidenced by the very high recovery rate and no-symptom percentage.

What is different is that while other coronoviruses tend to hit the young, COVID-19 tends to hit the old harder. The theory is that for older people their immune system overreacts (hmmm.... sort of like governments) to the virus and that's what's really damaging.

well it gives people respiratory issues so that will doesnt fare well for people with existing conditions or just old.

i think i had covid-19 for like 1 day but i kicked it. i used to be sick all the time when i was a kid so i have a good immune system now. i do recall when i had this bitch cough in my face i got sick fast and felt real weird before i got better.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: MRO to Dr. What on Sat Jul 25 2020 04:45 pm

well it gives people respiratory issues so that will doesnt fare well for people with existing conditions or just old.

i think i had covid-19 for like 1 day but i kicked it. i used to be sick all the time when i was a kid so i have a good immune system now. i do recall when i had this bitch cough in my face i got sick fast and felt real weird before i got better.

If you want to know for sure, dontae some blood. If you had it, they will tell you and you can save some lives.

---TLM

---
■ Synchronet ■ Nite Eyes BBS - To make people happy about my tagline everywhere...

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: The Lizard Master to MRO on Sat Jul 25 2020 07:03 pm

sick all the time when i was a kid so i have a good immune system now.
i do recall when i had this bitch cough in my face i got sick fast and
felt real weird before i got better.

If you want to know for sure, dontae some blood. If you had it, they will tell you and you can save some lives.

no, i dont care to know for sure.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

On 07-25-20 12:34, Dr. What wrote to MRO <=-

COVID-19 is related to Swine Flu, SARS and MERS. So far, we've tracked
all the previous ones to domestication (and usually commercialization
of) animals.

Hmm, I thought swine flu was an influenza virus, but the other 3 are definitely related, and yes, they've all jumped from animals, most likely bats via an intermediate species.

I've possibly had swine flu, back in 2009. A close contact had swine flu and was out for 4 weeks. It only affected me for a few days. I seem to be highly resistant to influenza viruses, typically throwing a flu off in a few days, if I catch it at all, when others are sick for weeks. That doesn't apply to all respiratory viruses, most common colds affect me as much as anyone else with similar (very good) health.

As for COVID-19, that's a dice I don't want to roll, it's too unpredictable and a lot of people are coming down with chronic issues, after surviving the initial infection.


... I sold my soul to the Devil. He gave it back.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 07-25-20 12:36, Dr. What wrote to HusTler <=-

@VIA: VERT/DMINE

HusTler wrote to Dennisk <=-

What happened to the bat theory?

The bat turned into a pangolin.

I thought the theory was "bat via pangolin".


... You could be reading the next message by now.
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Arelor wrote to Dr. What <=-

Well, sorry, I am just a sysadmin :-P

Sorry. That was just me thinking out loud.

I am not getting shown the cases, obviously, but word in the coffee
break is that there are lots of X-Ray/Echo/Other revisions for people
who survived the virus and ended up trashed as a result (reduced
breathing capacity, neorulogical side effects, etc).

I can see that for a percentage of the ones who showed bad enough symptoms
to go to a hospital, though.

I don't think the impact is *that* big, but nobody is talking about it
in the open, which I find... weird.

I think that's because they don't have enough good data yet.

COVID already has a lot of people scared. No point in making things even worse without a good reason.


... You are confused; but this is your normal state.
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Vk3jed wrote to Dr. What <=-

Hmm, I thought swine flu was an influenza virus, but the other 3 are definitely related, and yes, they've all jumped from animals, most
likely bats via an intermediate species.

My understanding is that all flus have come from animals. Our normal "flu"
has just been around for so long that we really don't think about it.

As for COVID-19, that's a dice I don't want to roll, it's too unpredictable and a lot of people are coming down with chronic issues, after surviving the initial infection.

COVID's not unpredictable now. We have a good handle on it.

You're the second person to talk about the cronic issues after surviving. But I still can't find anyone else reporting this.


... The wise open their minds, but a fool opens his mouth.
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Vk3jed wrote to Dr. What <=-

The bat turned into a pangolin.

I thought the theory was "bat via pangolin".

The real issue is the wet market. Animals get flus all the time. It's
when it jumps from animals to humans that our problems start. And the chinese wet market was where that happened.


... A wife lasts as long as a marriage, an ex-wife for ever.
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Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Dr. What to Vk3jed on Sun Jul 26 2020 12:11 pm

My understanding is that all flus have come from animals. Our normal "flu" has just been around for so long that we really don't think about it.

Don't cold & flu viruses change every year? If it was the same flu virus, I'd think we'd all be immune to it by now and hardly anyone would be getting the flu anymore.

Nightfox

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Dr. What to Arelor on Sun Jul 26 2020 12:06 pm

I don't think the impact is *that* big, but nobody is talking about
it in the open, which I find... weird.

I think that's because they don't have enough good data yet.

COVID already has a lot of people scared. No point in making things even worse without a goo

i've heard everything about covid.
it can be spread by farts. you can walk around and it's in your foot prints. in a hospital it was out in the lobby when they had a person in a sealed room. it messes up your heart and organs for the rest of your life. it lasts for 48 hours on objects. it has every symptom under the sun.

really, what the fuck. the media is obviously having a hayday with covid19. they are fucking up our society with their fearmongering and false information. ---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Sun Jul 26 2020 11:08 am

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Dr. What to Vk3jed on Sun Jul 26 2020 12:11 pm

My understanding is that all flus have come from animals. Our normal
"flu" has just been around for so long that we really don't think
about it.

Don't cold & flu viruses change every year? If it was the same flu virus, I'd think we'd all be immune to it by now and hardly anyone would be getting the flu anymore.

i believe we have antibodies but they dont last forever. dont know. i dont know what to believe.

i havent had the flu since i was 18. now i'm in my 40s. am i immune? i've been around people with it.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Dr. What to Vk3jed on Sun Jul 26 2020 12:11 pm

You're the second person to talk about the cronic issues after surviving. But I still can't find anyone else reporting this.

Must be in an illustration of news coverage in different markets; the long term damage and resulting chronic issues have been widely reported here. A two second google pulled this immediated from Harvard research:

"Finally, there is a subset of people with COVID-19 - some of them previously healthy and with no underlying cardiac problems - who develop fulminant inflammation of the heart muscle as a result of the virus directly infecting the heart. This type of inflammation could lead to heart rhythm disturbances and cardiac muscle damage as well as interfere with the heart"

source: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/04/covid-19s-consequences-for-the-h eart/

There's been similar concern and reporting about resulting liver, lung, and kidney damage.
---
Underminer
The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
Fidonet: 1:342/17
---
■ Synchronet ■ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Sun Jul 26 2020 11:08 am

Don't cold & flu viruses change every year? If it was the same flu virus, I'd think we'd all be immune to it by now and hardly anyone would be getting the flu anymore.

The truth is partially in between. There's several strains of Influenza, and it's always a question of prediction of what's going to spread in a given year, but that's also why we have vaccines pretty quickly available each year - it's not a new creature.
---
Underminer
The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
Fidonet: 1:342/17
---
■ Synchronet ■ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Jul 26 2020 02:01 pm

Don't cold & flu viruses change every year? If it was the same flu viru I'd think we'd all be immune to it by now and hardly anyone would be getting the flu anymore.

i believe we have antibodies but they dont last forever. dont know. i dont k what to believe.

I don't know about humans, but flu vaccines for horses generate immunity for less than a year.

Anyway, there are so many mutations of that stuff. During t the vaccination campaign for the flu and the like, they try to guess which variants are going to strike hard that year and prepare vaccines for them only. Some with other diseases which are worse than the flu.

--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Dr. What wrote to MRO <=-

really, what the fuck. the media is obviously having a hayday with covid19. they are fucking up our society with their fearmongering and false information.

IHMO, 90% of what we are told about COVID is false or misleading.
We won't know the truth for long after this. Certainly not
before the election in Nov.

The Covid "problem" will be cleared up on November 4th.

If Trump wins, the libs (and "mainstream" media) will lose their
minds, and commence railing on and on about how he "cheated". All
other news will be ignored.

If Biden wins, he will immediately be given credit for solving the
problem, and the media will start working only on news stories
that make him look good (and further the lib agenda). All other
news will be ignored.

So, everyone just relax. This will all be over soon.



... Warning! Error in REALITY.SYS! Proceeding with BIGBANG.EXE
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: The Lizard Master to MRO on Sat Jul 25 2020 07:03 pm

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: MRO to Dr. What on Sat Jul 25 2020 04:45 pm

well it gives people respiratory issues so that will doesnt fare well for people with existing conditions or just old.

i think i had covid-19 for like 1 day but i kicked it. i used to be sick the time when i was a kid so i have a good immune system now. i do recal when i had this bitch cough in my face i got sick fast and felt real weir before i got better.

If you want to know for sure, dontae some blood. If you had it, they will t

---TLM

Three restaurants closed down temporarily in my area because they discovered asymptomatic employees via open testing conducted through some of the local pharmacies. I was surprised at how transparent these places were about displo sing the information, but I bet finding out through other channels could be worse for business.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: MRO to The Lizard Master on Sun Jul 26 2020 12:57 am

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: The Lizard Master to MRO on Sat Jul 25 2020 07:03 pm

sick all the time when i was a kid so i have a good immune system now.
i do recall when i had this bitch cough in my face i got sick fast and
felt real weird before i got better.

If you want to know for sure, dontae some blood. If you had it, they wi tell you and you can save some lives.

no, i dont care to know for sure.

Some pharmacy chains (I know Rite Aid has been) offer free testing.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Dr. What to Vk3jed on Sun Jul 26 2020 12:11 pm

My understanding is that all flus have come from animals. Our normal "flu" has just been around for so long that we really don't think about it.

Animals can get sick from human flu strains too. We never hear much about human strains being severe because our bodies are prepared for them. The animal strains get the attention because they are mutations that our bdies aren't already familiar with.

When I was young my sister, brother and I would show market animals at the local
county fair. Swine would have to be tested for a virus called psuedorabies (ironic since it is not related to rabies) that swine can be asymptomatic carriers, however it can be devastating to cattle, horses, goats, sheep and several other animals. All it takes is one sick pig to touch it's nose on a water fixture or loading gate, and every other animal coming into contact
will spread it around to others.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Sun Jul 26 2020 11:08 am

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Dr. What to Vk3jed on Sun Jul 26 2020 12:11 pm

My understanding is that all flus have come from animals. Our normal "f has just been around for so long that we really don't think about it.

Don't cold & flu viruses change every year? If it was the same flu virus, I

Nightfox

Virii mutate all the time. Only a few get past our defenses, while the rest are evolutionary dead ends or easily defeated.


---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Jul 26 2020 02:01 pm

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Sun Jul 26 2020 11:08 am

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Dr. What to Vk3jed on Sun Jul 26 2020 12:11 pm

My understanding is that all flus have come from animals. Our normal
"flu" has just been around for so long that we really don't think
about it.

Don't cold & flu viruses change every year? If it was the same flu viru I'd think we'd all be immune to it by now and hardly anyone would be getting the flu anymore.

i believe we have antibodies but they dont last forever. dont know. i dont k

i havent had the flu since i was 18. now i'm in my 40s. am i immune? i've

Virii mutate every year. Whether it makes you sick is partially your health plus how drasticially it had mutated into something your body has a hard time fighting. The common cold and common flu are a series of strains opposed to a
single strain that could be isolated and immunized against.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Dr. What to Underminer on Mon Jul 27 2020 03:16 pm

Underminer wrote to Dr. What <=-

Must be in an illustration of news coverage in different markets; the long term damage and resulting chronic issues have been widely reported here. A two second google
pulled this immediated from Harvard research:

"Finally, there is a subset of people with COVID-19 - some of them previously healthy and with no
underlying cardiac problems - who
develop fulminant inflammation of the heart muscle as a result of the virus directly infecting th
heart. This type of inflammation could
lead to heart rhythm disturbances and cardiac muscle damage as well as interfere with the heart"

source: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/04/covid-19s-consequences-fo r-the-h eart/

There's been similar concern and reporting about resulting liver, lung, and kidney damage. ---

Interesting. This certainly merits more research.

The "previously healthy and with no underlaying cardiac problems" should really be "thought to be heal
with no known underlaying cardiac problems".

One of the problems we have with health care in general is that if you aren't showing some sort of
symptoms, they don't look for anything. I think that comes from the insurance industry and what they
will pay for.

... It said "Insert disk #3", but only 2 will fit!

That depends... some insurances want you to have a check every other time because they prefer to pay for
the check than for you to develop something nasty and having to pay for that.

--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: My letter to the edit
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Jul 28 2020 12:44 am

no, i dont care to know for sure.

Some pharmacy chains (I know Rite Aid has been) offer free testing.

oh we have a nurse right in my company that will do it for free.
i'm not gonna get a big swab up my fucking nose
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Penicilin is an antibiotic?

Yes, of course it is. You didn't know that?

Here's a rule of thumb: If the name has "cillin" in it, it's an antibiotic. Hope that helps!

Amoxicillin; good for heart issues AND dick sauce.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

MRO wrote to Dr. What <=-

yeah they were saying people were getting paralized and there was a lot
of cases of blood clots also.

When I hear this, I remember a time at work when I had to fix my job scheduler. About an hour after closing the ticket, I get an irate call from someone
(who's system runs on completely different hardwar than my system) telling me that I broke their stuff.

Long story short: they didn't want to look into THEIR problem. So they saw
my ticket, glommed on to the "scheduler" word and accused me of causing their issue.

I think that many of the COVID "after effects" are completely unrelated
and some groups are just wanting to attribute them to COVID.

just think about how much money this is making the media. their profits must have gone through the roof. they have something to report on every minute of the day.

Actually, most of them are going bankrupt.

You have the successful slander suits (like the recent Covington kid).
Then you have people getting tired of the "orange man bad" chant while the economy was going up.
Now you have the blatent lies about the "protests" going on.

The media relies on eyeballs and those eyeballs are getting tired of the junk. No eyeballs, no advertisers and no money.


... You have the right to remain silent.... USE IT!
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Gamgee wrote to Dr. What <=-

The Covid "problem" will be cleared up on November 4th.

If Trump wins, the libs (and "mainstream" media) will lose their
minds, and commence railing on and on about how he "cheated". All
other news will be ignored.

If Biden wins, he will immediately be given credit for solving the problem, and the media will start working only on news stories
that make him look good (and further the lib agenda). All other
news will be ignored.

So, everyone just relax. This will all be over soon.

Sadly, I think you are correct.

Our Tyrant... er.. Governor here in Michigan will probably keep everything locked down until Nov. Then blame all the problems on Trump (like that fools anyone right now).

She also wants to keep the schools shutdown. Someone brought up the point
that many areas use schools for voting places. If the schools are shut down that could mean mandatory mail in voting, which will result in massive voter fraud in those areas.


... Excuse me, while I change into something more formidable.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA

Dr. What wrote to Gamgee <=-

The Covid "problem" will be cleared up on November 4th.

If Trump wins, the libs (and "mainstream" media) will lose their
minds, and commence railing on and on about how he "cheated". All
other news will be ignored.

If Biden wins, he will immediately be given credit for solving the problem, and the media will start working only on news stories
that make him look good (and further the lib agenda). All other
news will be ignored.

So, everyone just relax. This will all be over soon.

Sadly, I think you are correct.

Our Tyrant... er.. Governor here in Michigan will probably keep
everything locked down until Nov. Then blame all the problems on
Trump (like that fools anyone right now).

She also wants to keep the schools shutdown. Someone brought up
the point that many areas use schools for voting places. If the
schools are shut down that could mean mandatory mail in voting,
which will result in massive voter fraud in those areas.

Yeah, she's a special one, all right. Almost unbelieveable levels
of stupidity. What she's actually doing is trying to leverage
herself for some future position (VP, Senator, etc), at the
expense of the people of Michigan.

Hopefully you all can toss her out on her dumb ass at the next
opportunity.



... Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes all the way to the bone.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

On 07-26-20 12:11, Dr. What wrote to Vk3jed <=-

My understanding is that all flus have come from animals. Our normal "flu" has just been around for so long that we really don't think about it.

But we haven't lived with this one long enough to adapt to it. Come back in several generations time, and COVID-19 will probably be "just a bug going around", or it will have remained so serious that a way will have been found to eradicate it (or very nearly so).

COVID's not unpredictable now. We have a good handle on it.

I don't agree, they're still learning more about it.

You're the second person to talk about the cronic issues after
surviving. But I still can't find anyone else reporting this.

You're not looking very hard. ;) There's quite a few reports on social media, and even mainstream media here has covered this, with several people coming forward with chronic COVID-19 symptoms. And doctors are reporting that the incidence of chronic COVID related health issues is not following the age distribution or health status that the acute symptoms follow. Young and healthy people seem as susceptible to the chronic effects as anyone else.


... Can you believe that thing is STILL moving?
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 07-26-20 12:12, Dr. What wrote to Vk3jed <=-

The real issue is the wet market. Animals get flus all the time. It's when it jumps from animals to humans that our problems start. And the chinese wet market was where that happened.

Yes, wet markets seem to be a particular crossover point for these viruses, and several outbreaks in recent years have been linked to them. On that, we agree.


... I have to file an environmental impact statement when I make chili.
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Gamgee wrote to Dr. What <=-

Our Tyrant... er.. Governor here in Michigan will probably keep
everything locked down until Nov. Then blame all the problems on
Trump (like that fools anyone right now).

Yeah, she's a special one, all right. Almost unbelieveable levels
of stupidity. What she's actually doing is trying to leverage
herself for some future position (VP, Senator, etc), at the
expense of the people of Michigan.

That's the only thing we can think of for a motivation. She keeps claiming that her edicts are based on "science and data", but when asked, she can't produce any. She constantly cooks the COVID numbers to justify her "emergency".

Last month, she "opened" the northern part of the state. But now she closed
it down again. I guess that she and her friends are done vacationing up
there.

Hopefully you all can toss her out on her dumb ass at the next opportunity.

The recall petition signing start today!

And we have several other petitions in the queue to remove the acts that
even allow her to have emergency powers. Unfortunately, they won't have any impact until the 2021/2022 elections, but they will prevent this from
happening again.

B
B


... Take no prisoners, we can't feed them.
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Vk3jed wrote to Dr. What <=-

But we haven't lived with this one long enough to adapt to it. Come
back in several generations time, and COVID-19 will probably be "just a bug going around", or it will have remained so serious that a way will have been found to eradicate it (or very nearly so).

We are already there. The numbers (at least for here in Michigan) show that it's only impacting 0.7% of the population and has killed 0.07% (mostly
the nursing home residents that our Fearless Leader forced to take in COVID patients).

The only difference between COVID and the seasonal flu is the Left-wing
fear mongering.

COVID's not unpredictable now. We have a good handle on it.

I don't agree, they're still learning more about it.

And they will continue to learn more about it - just like every other
disease.

But we know the important stuff: How to diagnose it. How to prevent it.
How to treat it.

You're the second person to talk about the cronic issues after
surviving. But I still can't find anyone else reporting this.

You're not looking very hard.

Actually, I am. But I don't wantch Leftie news sources since they have
proven to be biased (and fear mongering) and not very trustworthy.

There's quite a few reports on social
media, and even mainstream media here has covered this, with several people coming forward with chronic COVID-19 symptoms. And doctors are reporting that the incidence of chronic COVID related health issues is
not following the age distribution or health status that the acute symptoms follow. Young and healthy people seem as susceptible to the chronic effects as anyone else.

Again, I hear nothing about this, and I'm looking. So, for now, I have
to discount this as yet another fear mongering tactic by the left.

But I will keep my eyes and ears open for any trustworthy news source
reporting this.


... I think, therefore I am, I think
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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Dr. What wrote to Gamgee <=-

Gamgee wrote to Dr. What <=-

Our Tyrant... er.. Governor here in Michigan will probably keep
everything locked down until Nov. Then blame all the problems on
Trump (like that fools anyone right now).

Yeah, she's a special one, all right. Almost unbelieveable levels
of stupidity. What she's actually doing is trying to leverage
herself for some future position (VP, Senator, etc), at the
expense of the people of Michigan.

That's the only thing we can think of for a motivation. She
keeps claiming that her edicts are based on "science and data",
but when asked, she can't produce any. She constantly cooks the
COVID numbers to justify her "emergency".

A lot of them (lib officials) cook the numbers to suit their
agenda. No surprise there.

Last month, she "opened" the northern part of the state. But now
she closed it down again. I guess that she and her friends are
done vacationing up there.

Probably right. Could probably be proven, should one look hard
enough... ;-)

Hopefully you all can toss her out on her dumb ass at the next opportunity.

The recall petition signing start today!

Good to hear. Hope other states do the same with their pandering
two-faced assholes.

And we have several other petitions in the queue to remove the
acts that even allow her to have emergency powers.
Unfortunately, they won't have any impact until the 2021/2022
elections, but they will prevent this from happening again.

That sounds more like something that would require changes to laws/constitution to happen. Petitions don't carry that kind of
power.



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On 07-30-20 10:29, Dr. What wrote to Vk3jed <=-

The only difference between COVID and the seasonal flu is the Left-wing fear mongering.

And therein ends the discussion - American politisation of a pandemic. While the political blinkers are on, there's no point. This should be beyond politics.


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Gamgee wrote to Dr. What <=-

Last month, she "opened" the northern part of the state. But now
she closed it down again. I guess that she and her friends are
done vacationing up there.

Probably right. Could probably be proven, should one look hard
enough... ;-)

Ya, but we'll wait to see what happens with Clinton and his (now documented) trips to Epstine island. If the mighty fall, the significantly-less-mighty won't be far behind.

That sounds more like something that would require changes to laws/constitution to happen. Petitions don't carry that kind of
power.

No, but the petition is to get the question on the ballot. The constutitional change petition was drafted by a lawyer. So she's got some knowledge as to what needs to be done there.


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THUMPER wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

@VIA: THEWASTE
@MSGID: <5F1A2006.2022.dove-debate@wastelands-bbs.net>
@REPLY: <5F0D35DD.53690.dove-deb@vert.synchro.net>

My wife says, "I was social distancing before it was cool."

:-)

Yup! I've never liked people in my space and my wife always tells me
I'd make a great hermit!! :) Maybe too many experiences through the
years with people that just suck.

She has social anxiety, but yeah - the general public is stupid and
lots of people just plain suck. LOL




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