As Vladimir Putin's war in Ukraine has gone sideways towards, what appears to be, inevitable defeat for the Russian forces, there's widespread speculation as to what the Russian Federation's actual endgame can be here. With Ukraine's forces recapturing vast swaths of territories, Russia struggling to marshal its manpower, and all evidence pointing to capitulation in Crimea, Donbas, and other occupied Ukrainian territories, it seems that this war will be resolved within a year.

What is Russia's possible endgame here?

Former Russian President and Putin-stooge Medvedev tipped his hand in a candid interview earlier this year when he shared two tidbits that struck me deeply.

1. He said that "a world without Russia is not a world worth having."

2. He also remarked that "we don't need any other countries. Russia is the only state that matters."

It leads me to believe that, regardless what NATO and the U.S. warn would be the consequences, Russia intends to use nuclear weapons extensively as a part of its effort to re-assert its presence on the world stage and, in its view, bring this war to a successful conclusion. But I don't think that nukes, even if launchced and dropped upon Ukrainian cities, would prevent the Ukrainian people from successfully kicking out the Russians.

What do you think the endgame for this barbaric and savage war is going to be? _____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Kaelon to All on Tue Sep 27 2022 05:46 am

1. He said that "a world without Russia is not a world worth having."

2. He also remarked that "we don't need any other countries. Russia is the only state that matters."

It leads me to believe that, regardless what NATO and the U.S. warn would be the consequences, Russia intends to use nuclear weapons extensively as a part of its effort to re-assert its presence on the world stage and, in

What do you think the endgame for this barbaric and savage war is going to be?

I've wondered about that a bit, and I don't really know. If the news here is accurate, Russia has had to start organizing its resources because they're losing this war. I recently heard in the news that Russia has threatened to possibly use nuclear arms. I'm seriously wondering if Russia/Putin is hell-bent on winning this or seeking some kind of recognition or attention, and if this could escalate to a World War 3..

Nightfox

Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Tue Sep 27 2022 08:43 am

Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Kaelon to All on Tue Sep 27 2022 05:46 am

1. He said that "a world without Russia is not a world worth having."

2. He also remarked that "we don't need any other countries. Russia is the
only state that matters."

It leads me to believe that, regardless what NATO and the U.S. warn would
be the consequences, Russia intends to use nuclear weapons extensively as
a part of its effort to re-assert its presence on the world stage and, in

What do you think the endgame for this barbaric and savage war is going to
be?

I've wondered about that a bit, and I don't really know. If the news here is accur
. I'm seriously wondering if Russia/Putin is hell-bent on winning this or seeking

Nightfox

---
■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

If Putin does not get at leas a symbolic win to offer his allies, they are gonna
murder him in the ladies restroom. That was well understood from the start so you can
bet Russia will be as agressive as need be because Putin is aware of the consequences
of not achieving his goals.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Kaelon to All on Tue Sep 27 2022 05:46 am

As Vladimir Putin's war in Ukraine has gone sideways towards, what appears t ast swaths of territories, Russia struggling to marshal its manpower, and al

What is Russia's possible endgame here?

Former Russian President and Putin-stooge Medvedev tipped his hand in a cand

1. He said that "a world without Russia is not a world worth having."

2. He also remarked that "we don't need any other countries. Russia is the o

It leads me to believe that, regardless what NATO and the U.S. warn would be ccessful conclusion. But I don't think that nukes, even if launchced and dr

What do you think the endgame for this barbaric and savage war is going to b _____
-=: Kaelon :=-

Putin is insane. He's sending troops to fight with gear dating back to WWII, some are learning the supply chain is a shambles and are forced to buy their own blankets and under clothing. I bet it won't take long before it looks lik e scenes from Enemy at the Gates where soldiers who retreat will be met with machine gun fire.

From a logistics point of view, they're cleaning out warehouses of stuff that was meant for major mobilization back in the 60's and 70's. Older tanks and artillery that has been in mothballs or boneyards are being loaded on trains and sent to the front lines. They're even moving SAM coverage from St Petersburg to be used for long range rockets and take back air superiority.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Arelor to Nightfox on Tue Sep 27 2022 12:31 pm

Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Tue Sep 27 2022 08:43 am

Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Kaelon to All on Tue Sep 27 2022 05:46 am

1. He said that "a world without Russia is not a world worth having.

2. He also remarked that "we don't need any other countries. Russia only state that matters."

It leads me to believe that, regardless what NATO and the U.S. warn be the consequences, Russia intends to use nuclear weapons extensive a part of its effort to re-assert its presence on the world stage an

What do you think the endgame for this barbaric and savage war is go be?

I've wondered about that a bit, and I don't really know. If the news her . I'm seriously wondering if Russia/Putin is hell-bent on winning this o

Nightfox

---
■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

If Putin does not get at leas a symbolic win to offer his allies, they are g murder him in the ladies restroom. That was well understood from the start s bet Russia will be as agressive as need be because Putin is aware of the con of not achieving his goals.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

Sad part is even if Putin is removed from his seat, whoever moves in isn't going to be more friendly to the West, or is going to be cast from the same material as Putin. I can imagine Putin is the type who surrounds himself
with people he is not afraid of taking his place. Anyone who has that
ambition is in a lumber camp in Siberia or on the bottom of a cold lake that doesn't give up it's dead.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to Arelor on Tue Sep 27 2022 04:02 pm

Sad part is even if Putin is removed from his seat, whoever moves in isn't going to be more friendly to the West, or is going to be cast from the same material as Putin. I can imagine Putin is the type who surrounds himself with people he is not afraid of taking his place. Anyone who has that ambition is in a lumber camp in Siberia or on the bottom of a cold lake that doesn't give up it's dead.

putin is very prideful and he has to have some type of win out of this or we are all going to pay. he's literally a murderer, too. i wouldn't fuck with that guy.

they should have trump negociate with him.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Moondog on Tue Sep 27 2022 10:26 pm

Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to Arelor on Tue Sep 27 2022 04:02 pm

Sad part is even if Putin is removed from his seat, whoever moves in isn' going to be more friendly to the West, or is going to be cast from the sa material as Putin. I can imagine Putin is the type who surrounds himself with people he is not afraid of taking his place. Anyone who has that ambition is in a lumber camp in Siberia or on the bottom of a cold lake t doesn't give up it's dead.

putin is very prideful and he has to have some type of win out of this or we

they should have trump negociate with him.

Putin drew first blood years ago by taking Crimea and the Donbas regions. Ukraine will not negotiate until they return those regions back to Ukrainian control. I can't see a way for Putin to save face, except for claiming he
did this all to clean out warehouses of Soviet era equipment.

I noticed the Russian people protest the war and mobilization, but do not openly blame Putin's decision making. Part of that may be propaganda, otherwise it is being clever and avoiding being put on a political trouble maker list.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

On 28 Sep 2022, Moondog said the following...

I noticed the Russian people protest the war and mobilization, but do not openly blame Putin's decision making. Part of that may be propaganda, otherwise it is being clever and avoiding being put on a political
trouble maker list.

Russian people very specificially support this war. 100%. They want it to happen but they don't want to have to participate.

Every post, tiktok, whatever out of Russia is specifically worded and it's never to say "get out of Ukraine!" or "peace!". It's "look at these shitty conditions and our limited supplies, why should *I* be here. I'm from the city not a serf. Stupid war. Why won't Ukraine give up/sign agreements/take blame. Our men will kill them and take their wives." etc.

Regarding propoganda and being clever.. I think they're on the other side of the dip entirely. Something like: not knowing it's propaganda -> knowing it's propaganda, ignoring it as lies -> knowing it's propaganda, actively promoting it, enjoying the lie. I've heard it several times where they'll compare "our vs your propaganda" .. with no stigma on the word propaganda at all.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi

own blankets and under clothing. I bet it won't take long before it looks lik
e scenes from Enemy at the Gates where soldiers who retreat will be met with machine gun fire.

Russia has done this before, during WWII. Especially early in the war.
Stalin did not play games, and Putin has said recently that he didn't think Stalin went far enough.


* SLMR 2.1a * "Never repeat codes," said the telegrapher remorselessly.

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Dumas Walker to MOONDOG on Wed Sep 28 2022 04:49 pm

own blankets and under clothing. I bet it won't take long before it looks e scenes from Enemy at the Gates where soldiers who retreat will be met wi machine gun fire.

Russia has done this before, during WWII. Especially early in the war. Stalin did not play games, and Putin has said recently that he didn't think Stalin went far enough.

* SLMR 2.1a * "Never repeat codes," said the telegrapher remorselessly.

Putin has announced a "no retreat" order. These reserve troops may be pushed into the meat grinder the same way.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Kaelon wrote to All <=-

As Vladimir Putin's war in Ukraine has gone sideways towards, what
appears to be, inevitable defeat for the Russian forces, there's widespread speculation as to what the Russian Federation's actual
endgame can be here. With Ukraine's forces recapturing vast swaths of territories, Russia struggling to marshal its manpower, and all
evidence pointing to capitulation in Crimea, Donbas, and other occupied Ukrainian territories, it seems that this war will be resolved within a year.

What is Russia's possible endgame here?

Former Russian President and Putin-stooge Medvedev tipped his hand in a candid interview earlier this year when he shared two tidbits that
struck me deeply.

1. He said that "a world without Russia is not a world worth having."

2. He also remarked that "we don't need any other countries. Russia is
the only state that matters."

It leads me to believe that, regardless what NATO and the U.S. warn
would be the consequences, Russia intends to use nuclear weapons extensively as a part of its effort to re-assert its presence on the
world stage and, in its view, bring this war to a successful
conclusion. But I don't think that nukes, even if launchced and
dropped upon Ukrainian cities, would prevent the Ukrainian people from successfully kicking out the Russians.

What do you think the endgame for this barbaric and savage war is going
to be? _____

I'm not sure, but I'm highly skeptical of the Western narrative. According to Western press, Russia has been losing this war since the beginning, and with the annexation of four territories having occured, it seems hard to believe this analysis is accurate. Western leaders are just going to pretend it didn't happen, but that is what we do in the West now. Play make believe and excoriate anyone who doesn't go along. Americans like to declare victory when they haven't actually won. Americans think that SAYING A makes A a reality. It's really odd.

I think people are disregarding the fact that "our" side is also heavily propagandizing its people, so our view would also be highly warped. Given the repeated failure of the West to analyse and solve problems, I'm in general quite doubtful that the situation, as it actually is, is how it is percieved to be. That is to say, Russia could achieve some limited goals, despite what our media are saying.

I don't entirely disagree with Medvedev's first point either. The USA has become a rather pathological world power. It is interesting to hear Putin mention (again), poisonous Western ideologies which undermine tradition and nations. Having seen the spread of American Ideology into Australia, it is really hard to disagree. Having strong powers which can provide an counter narrative, a push back I think is important.

The "nukes" is hysteria though. Utter hysteria. I remember reading articles about how when Trump would win the world would collapse and nukes would go off over cities. Quite literally they were saying that. The amount of utter BS our leaders and media give us should make us feel total shame and embarrassment, if we had self-awareness of how we look to others, which we don't.

So I'm not too concerned. Russia will annex these lands as it did the Crimea, the West will pretend they the world is just *us* and that there really isn't any fundamental change to the world and we'll continue living in our fantasy land.

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

I'm not sure, but I'm highly skeptical of the Western narrative. According to
Western press, Russia has been losing this war since the beginning, and with the annexation of four territories having occured, it seems hard to believe this analysis is accurate. Western leaders are just going to pretend it didn'
happen, but that is what we do in the West now. Play make believe and excoriate anyone who doesn't go along. Americans like to declare victory when
they haven't actually won. Americans think that SAYING A makes A a reality. It's really odd.

As someone who lives in America, the news I have been hearing has not been
that Russia was losing since the beginning. Matter of fact, the news
earlier on was very bleak for Ukraine. It does not seem that the Russia is losing narrative started up in earnest until after we gave Ukraine a bunch
of money.

Maybe we are watching different news sources. I cannot say that there are
not any that have been on the "Russia is losing" bandwagon since the
beginning, but I didn't see any.


* SLMR 2.1a * Deja Moo: the feeling you have heard this bull before

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Dumas Walker wrote to BORAXMAN <=-

I'm not sure, but I'm highly skeptical of the Western narrative. According

to

Western press, Russia has been losing this war since the beginning, and with the annexation of four territories having occured, it seems hard to believe this analysis is accurate. Western leaders are just going to pretend it

didn'

happen, but that is what we do in the West now. Play make believe and excoriate anyone who doesn't go along. Americans like to declare victory

when

they haven't actually won. Americans think that SAYING A makes A a reality. It's really odd.

As someone who lives in America, the news I have been hearing has not
been that Russia was losing since the beginning. Matter of fact, the
news earlier on was very bleak for Ukraine. It does not seem that the Russia is losing narrative started up in earnest until after we gave Ukraine a bunch of money.

Maybe we are watching different news sources. I cannot say that there
are not any that have been on the "Russia is losing" bandwagon since
the beginning, but I didn't see any.

Perhaps you're using different news sources. In Australia, the nightly news says almost nothing about the conflict. The main internet news sites here are mostly putting out stories about how Russia is in trouble, Putin is about to die, Ukraine is winning. They've been doing this for months now.

Maybe the U.S. news is more realistic? That would be a pleasant surprise.

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to Dumas Walker on Mon Oct 03 2022 10:39 pm

Dumas Walker wrote to BORAXMAN <=-

I'm not sure, but I'm highly skeptical of the Western narrative. Accordi

to

Western press, Russia has been losing this war since the beginning, and w the annexation of four territories having occured, it seems hard to belie this analysis is accurate. Western leaders are just going to pretend it

didn'

happen, but that is what we do in the West now. Play make believe and excoriate anyone who doesn't go along. Americans like to declare victory

when

they haven't actually won. Americans think that SAYING A makes A a reali It's really odd.

As someone who lives in America, the news I have been hearing has not been that Russia was losing since the beginning. Matter of fact, the news earlier on was very bleak for Ukraine. It does not seem that the Russia is losing narrative started up in earnest until after we gave Ukraine a bunch of money.

Maybe we are watching different news sources. I cannot say that there are not any that have been on the "Russia is losing" bandwagon since the beginning, but I didn't see any.

Perhaps you're using different news sources. In Australia, the nightly news says almost nothing about the conflict. The main internet news sites here a mostly putting out stories about how Russia is in trouble, Putin is about to die, Ukraine is winning. They've been doing this for months now.

Maybe the U.S. news is more realistic? That would be a pleasant surprise.

FRom what I've seen, the coverage of Ukreaine has gone down. The news loves stories about Putin and his crazy antics. My guess is the US press doesn't have the same level of access they do with US military forces. Iknow some reports are intentionally delayed and tactical commentary is discouraged in order to keep the Russians guessing about the Ukraine's next move.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

As someone who lives in America, the news I have been hearing has not been that Russia was losing since the beginning. Matter of fact, the news earlier on was very bleak for Ukraine. It does not seem that the Russia is losing narrative started up in earnest until after we gave Ukraine a bunch of money.

Perhaps you're using different news sources. In Australia, the nightly news says almost nothing about the conflict. The main internet news sites here are
mostly putting out stories about how Russia is in trouble, Putin is about to die, Ukraine is winning. They've been doing this for months now.

Maybe the U.S. news is more realistic? That would be a pleasant surprise.

I will admit they've gotten where they don't say near as much as they used
to about the conflict, that is for sure. It got pushed out of the top spot
in the news cycle when the FBI raided Donald Trump. Other things... hurricanes, etc... have managed to, in turn, push that out of the top spot.

What we were hearing, and what we've been hearing lately, does sound
realistic. Ukraine has gained some ground but Putin is rounding up the reserves and others with military service and throwing them at the problem, Putin has threatened using nukes, and some in his "circle of advisors" have suggested using low-grade ones.

One other thing that has been in the news lately, and has been fighting for
the top spot, is the referrendums that were held in the sections of the
country that have long been Russian held that resulted in Russia annexing
them outright.

I don't think we've really been getting any serious either side "is winning big" stories in a while.


* SLMR 2.1a * Warning! Incomprehensible action is about to occur.

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Dumas Walker to BORAXMAN on Tue Oct 04 2022 05:28 pm

What we were hearing, and what we've been hearing lately, does sound realistic. Ukraine has gained some ground but Putin is rounding up the reserves and others with military service and throwing them at the problem, Putin has threatened using nukes, and some in his "circle of advisors" have suggested using low-grade ones.

One other thing that has been in the news lately, and has been fighting for the top spot, is the referrendums that were held in the sections of the country that have long been Russian held that resulted in Russia annexing them outright.

putin doesnt want to lose. that makes him dangerous.
also he's in league with china.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-14/yuan-s-clout-gets-a-boost-from-russia-trade-as-sanctions-bite

https://preview.tinyurl.com/2qk8myej
you can't read much of that but you can read enough to see

and through all of this, china has been the most level headed country.

btw, what country borrows money from china to give resources to china? with interest? USA
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Hello Moondog!

** On Tuesday 04.10.22 - 14:49, Moondog wrote to Boraxman:

FRom what I've seen, the coverage of Ukreaine has gone
down. [...]

There are plenty of headlines posted in the UKRNEWS (Fidonet)
echo.

Sources are primarily:

https://censor.net/en/news/
https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/
https://www.kyivpost.com/

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Ogg to Moondog on Tue Oct 04 2022 09:09 pm

Hello Moondog!

** On Tuesday 04.10.22 - 14:49, Moondog wrote to Boraxman:

FRom what I've seen, the coverage of Ukreaine has gone
down. [...]

There are plenty of headlines posted in the UKRNEWS (Fidonet)
echo.

why use fidonet when you can get the news on the internet
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

putin doesnt want to lose. that makes him dangerous.

Indeed. Hitler did not want to lose, and became very dangerous (to his own people) once he realized he likely would.

also he's in league with china.

Yes

and through all of this, china has been the most level headed country.

btw, what country borrows money from china to give resources to china? with in
rest? USA

Anyone who thinks that Biden released oil from the strategic reserves for
us has not been paying attention.


* SLMR 2.1a * Bartenders DO IT on the rocks..

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Wed Oct 05 2022 04:15 pm

putin doesnt want to lose. that makes him dangerous.

Indeed. Hitler did not want to lose, and became very dangerous (to his own people) once he realized he likely would.

putin got back the russian spirit. he brought them back from being losers.
he'd rather die than lose

Anyone who thinks that Biden released oil from the strategic reserves for
us has not been paying attention.

yeah people are so stupid.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Hello MRO!

** On Wednesday 05.10.22 - 15:57, MRO wrote to Ogg:

There are plenty of headlines posted in the UKRNEWS
(Fidonet) echo.

why use fidonet when you can get the news on the internet

..'cuz in fidonet they are efficient headlines and pure text.
i can see about 20 of those on one screen and open the message
with the link only if i'm interested.

Eg. https://susepaste.org/27402896

Reading them one by one at the aforementioned news sources
would be a lumbering process.


--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Ogg to MRO on Wed Oct 05 2022 09:47 pm

** On Wednesday 05.10.22 - 15:57, MRO wrote to Ogg:

There are plenty of headlines posted in the UKRNEWS
(Fidonet) echo.

why use fidonet when you can get the news on the internet

..'cuz in fidonet they are efficient headlines and pure text.
i can see about 20 of those on one screen and open the message
with the link only if i'm interested.

Eg. https://susepaste.org/27402896

Reading them one by one at the aforementioned news sources
would be a lumbering process.

i'm sure there's something like fark but for regular news.
or you can use .rss to generate a list.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Dumas Walker to BORAXMAN on Sat Oct 01 2022 09:53 am

I'm not sure, but I'm highly skeptical of the Western narrative.
According to
Western press, Russia has been losing this war since the beginning, and with the annexation of four territories having occured, it seems hard to believe this analysis is accurate. Western leaders are just going to pretend it didn'
happen, but that is what we do in the West now. Play make believe and excoriate anyone who doesn't go along. Americans like to declare victory when
they haven't actually won. Americans think that SAYING A makes A a reality. It's really odd.

Same here. The MSM keep telling us how weak and non-threatening Russia is however the reality is the opposite. They had only deployed a small fraction of their serving military into this "special operation" in Ukraine. We are beginning to see a much larger mobilisation now with their recent draft of 300,000 troops. They have also been exhausting their old stock of tanks and weaponary to soften up the Ukrainians with the more advanced stuff becoming known to us soon. I am taking the threat of Russia quite seriously considering the West is financially on the precipice and about to collapse under its own weight... just look at what happened in the UK last Monday where there was almost a financial and economic meltdown.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Indeed. Hitler did not want to lose, and became very dangerous (to his own
people) once he realized he likely would.

putin got back the russian spirit. he brought them back from being losers. he'd rather die than lose

A lot of Russian citizens who post on social media don't seem too happy
with him. The other day, someone shot and killed one of the conscription officers. Others have been posting videos of the poor living conditions at
the conscription dorms.


* SLMR 2.1a * I'm a nocturnal model

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Thu Oct 06 2022 04:39 pm

Indeed. Hitler did not want to lose, and became very dangerous (to his own
people) once he realized he likely would.

putin got back the russian spirit. he brought them back from being losers. he'd rather die than lose

A lot of Russian citizens who post on social media don't seem too happy
with him. The other day, someone shot and killed one of the conscription

they're brainwashed just like we are by the media and other influences.
i dont think anybody would like being forced to serve.

officers. Others have been posting videos of the poor living conditions at the conscription dorms.

i've watched a lot of russian pornos and gathering from what i've seen in the background, they've always had less than desireable living conditions compared to us. especially that shitty wallpaper most of them have.

just did a google search for russian constription dorms https://i.imgur.com/kaOm64T.png

see what i mean.

looks like some of them are loft style. so you get brick instead of shitty wallpaper.
https://www.russianews.net/news/269296092/russian-army-opens-its-first-ever-loft-style-barracks

i'm sure it's not great. but what else can you expect. they are at war.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Dumas Walker on Thu Oct 06 2022 05:24 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Dumas Walker to BORAXMAN on Sat Oct 01 2022 09:53 am

I'm not sure, but I'm highly skeptical of the Western narrative. According to
Western press, Russia has been losing this war since the beginning, and with the annexation of four territories having occured, it seems hard t believe this analysis is accurate. Western leaders are just going to pretend it didn'
happen, but that is what we do in the West now. Play make believe and excoriate anyone who doesn't go along. Americans like to declare victo when
they haven't actually won. Americans think that SAYING A makes A a reality. It's really odd.

Same here. The MSM keep telling us how weak and non-threatening Russia is however the reality is the opposite. They had only deployed a small fraction their serving military into this "special operation" in Ukraine. We are beginning to see a much larger mobilisation now with their recent draft of 300,000 troops. They have also been exhausting their old stock of tanks and weaponary to soften up the Ukrainians with the more advanced stuff becoming known to us soon. I am taking the threat of Russia quite seriously consideri the West is financially on the precipice and about to collapse under its own weight... just look at what happened in the UK last Monday where there was almost a financial and economic meltdown.

During the conflict Russia has been losing an average of 500 trained troops a day. In the approach to Kherson they lost another 2500 in a day or two. Russia's downfall was a high level of corruption over time. The taking of Kie v was thwarted by old dry-rotted Chinese military tires that were never replac ed . New soldiers that have been mobilized are buying their own winter r
gear and camoflage because 1.5 million uniforms are missing. They were eithe
r sold off or the generals who were given funding pocketed the money.

The Russian's anti-rocket reactive armor has been removed and sold off
several years ago, and the soldiers who stole it were long gone. The
pictures of armor on the news are of T-62 tanks, which were considered effective in the early 1960's. During the onset of war, Russian Su-34's and 37's were ineffective on bombing roles because pilots are trained to fire precision munitions they hard in small quantities, and were forced to use
their mk I eyeballs to drop (and miss) older dumb bombs.

If Russia was as well equipped and trained as we used to think, Russia would've taken the Ukraine in 2 or three months. The best upgrade the new
AK12 was the optics rail to facilitate modern optics, however troops were not
issued optics because of the theft concern. The newly mobilised troops are probably getting AK-74's made in the 70's or even 60's era AK-47's.

I wouldn't be surprised if they issued every other troop a rifle, and assign his battle buddy with just a magazine.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Thu Oct 06 2022 04:39 pm

Indeed. Hitler did not want to lose, and became very dangerous (to his people) once he realized he likely would.

putin got back the russian spirit. he brought them back from being losers. he'd rather die than lose

A lot of Russian citizens who post on social media don't seem too happy
with him. The other day, someone shot and killed one of the conscription officers. Others have been posting videos of the poor living conditions at the conscription dorms.

* SLMR 2.1a * I'm a nocturnal model

Several have been clever by denouncing ther mobilisation and the war, but no s ay it's Putin's fault directly. So what if they are caught by their social media police? The worst that can happen is they get shipped to the Ukraine.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Dumas Walker on Thu Oct 06 2022 05:24 pm

weight... just look at what happened in the UK last Monday where there was almost a financial and economic meltdown.

I am out of the look. WHat has happened in the UK that I have missed?

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Oct 06 2022 10:57 pm

i've watched a lot of russian pornos and gathering from what i've seen in th

My understanding is that Russia is just like a lot of developping countries: they have reasonable infrastructure and services in a number of cities and big population areas, but if you step away from urban centers the villages are still stuck in the 19th century.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Moondog wrote to Boraxman <=-

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to Dumas Walker on Mon Oct 03 2022 10:39 pm

Dumas Walker wrote to BORAXMAN <=-

I'm not sure, but I'm highly skeptical of the Western narrative. Accordi

to

Western press, Russia has been losing this war since the beginning, and w the annexation of four territories having occured, it seems hard to belie this analysis is accurate. Western leaders are just going to pretend it

didn'

happen, but that is what we do in the West now. Play make believe and excoriate anyone who doesn't go along. Americans like to declare victory

when

they haven't actually won. Americans think that SAYING A makes A a reali It's really odd.

As someone who lives in America, the news I have been hearing has not been that Russia was losing since the beginning. Matter of fact, the news earlier on was very bleak for Ukraine. It does not seem that the Russia is losing narrative started up in earnest until after we gave Ukraine a bunch of money.

Maybe we are watching different news sources. I cannot say that there are not any that have been on the "Russia is losing" bandwagon since the beginning, but I didn't see any.

Perhaps you're using different news sources. In Australia, the nightly news says almost nothing about the conflict. The main internet news sites here a mostly putting out stories about how Russia is in trouble, Putin is about to die, Ukraine is winning. They've been doing this for months now.

Maybe the U.S. news is more realistic? That would be a pleasant surprise.

FRom what I've seen, the coverage of Ukreaine has gone down. The news loves stories about Putin and his crazy antics. My guess is the US
press doesn't have the same level of access they do with US military forces. Iknow some reports are intentionally delayed and tactical commentary is discouraged in order to keep the Russians guessing about
the Ukraine's next move.

From the stories I've seen, Putin is about to die, or has come close to death every week, and that Ukraine has another victory. But the stories lack details, they read more like tabloid celebrity news.

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

Dumas Walker wrote to BORAXMAN <=-

As someone who lives in America, the news I have been hearing has not been that Russia was losing since the beginning. Matter of fact, the news earlier on was very bleak for Ukraine. It does not seem that the Russia is losing narrative started up in earnest until after we gave Ukraine a bunch of money.

Perhaps you're using different news sources. In Australia, the nightly news says almost nothing about the conflict. The main internet news sites here

are

mostly putting out stories about how Russia is in trouble, Putin is about to die, Ukraine is winning. They've been doing this for months now.

Maybe the U.S. news is more realistic? That would be a pleasant surprise.

I will admit they've gotten where they don't say near as much as they
used to about the conflict, that is for sure. It got pushed out of the top spot in the news cycle when the FBI raided Donald Trump. Other things... hurricanes, etc... have managed to, in turn, push that out of the top spot.

What we were hearing, and what we've been hearing lately, does sound realistic. Ukraine has gained some ground but Putin is rounding up the reserves and others with military service and throwing them at the problem, Putin has threatened using nukes, and some in his "circle of advisors" have suggested using low-grade ones.

One other thing that has been in the news lately, and has been fighting for the top spot, is the referrendums that were held in the sections of the country that have long been Russian held that resulted in Russia annexing them outright.

I don't think we've really been getting any serious either side "is winning big" stories in a while.

A good point about lack of journalistic access to what is going on on the ground. I remember the Gulf War (the first one), and the level of detail in the analysis and coverage. All day coverage for days, which was a lot more than the 2003 Invasion.

Now, people are talking seriously about being on the verge of WWIII, and its not even the top stories. I can go to news.com.au, and the headlines are about Kanye, a Kardashian, some "racist rant" on a train, some Instragram rubbish, and what some woman said on TicTok. On our ABC new site, its not much better. Articles vying for top spot which are NOT news but merely some journalists musings on some pet social issue they want us to care about.

So I think it is in part what you said, less information, but also in part that we have a different breed of journalists who don't know, and don't care, to report to us actual news.

... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Arelor to MRO on Fri Oct 07 2022 03:24 am

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Oct 06 2022 10:57 pm

i've watched a lot of russian pornos and gathering from what i've seen in th

My understanding is that Russia is just like a lot of developping countries: they have reasonable infrastructure and services in a number of cities and big population areas, but if you step away from urban centers the villages are still stuck in the 19th century.

that's the way china is. maybe it's a communist thing. but maybe it's like that somewhat all over but we don't realize it.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to Moondog on Fri Oct 07 2022 08:43 pm

From the stories I've seen, Putin is about to die, or has come close to death every week, and that Ukraine has another victory. But the stories lack details, they read more like tabloid celebrity news.

yeah that sounds like bullshit.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Arelor on Fri Oct 07 2022 05:38 am

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Arelor to MRO on Fri Oct 07 2022 03:24 am

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Oct 06 2022 10:57 pm

i've watched a lot of russian pornos and gathering from what i've seen th

My understanding is that Russia is just like a lot of developping countri they have reasonable infrastructure and services in a number of cities an big population areas, but if you step away from urban centers the village are still stuck in the 19th century.

that's the way china is. maybe it's a communist thing. but maybe it's like t

I getr the impression that Russian people are historically been kept poor,
and the government keeps the people fed by forcing low food prices and subsidizing liquor. Corruption is rampant, and things do not get doen
through standard channels. A friend that used to travel overseas said it was common in former soviet states for peopel to have a real job they pay taxes
on, and another less than legitimate job that really pays the bills. Girls
at the clubs will have the latest Iphones and dress like they are
supermodels, but are obviously living outside their means. Ukrainian dating services appears to be a scam where rich men pay loads of money to women they may take months before any chances to actually meet them.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Fri Oct 07 2022 12:28 pm

I getr the impression that Russian people are historically been kept poor, and the government keeps the people fed by forcing low food prices and subsidizing liquor. Corruption is rampant, and things do not get doen through standard channels. A friend that used to travel overseas said it was common in former soviet states for peopel to have a real job they pay taxes

only thing different it seems is they can afford their food.
sounds like a good deal.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Several have been clever by denouncing ther mobilisation and the war, but no s
ay it's Putin's fault directly.

Indeed. I have noticed that also, and I think the US media has also picked
up on it.


* SLMR 2.1a * Tagline uncloaking dead ahead Sir...

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

A good point about lack of journalistic access to what is going on on the ground. I remember the Gulf War (the first one), and the level of detail in the analysis and coverage. All day coverage for days, which was a lot more than the 2003 Invasion.

Yes, I also remember that. It was all the time coverage. I had friends
over there so I watched a lot of it. 9/11 and the aftermath (anthrax
letters, the DC shooters) had similar coverage.

Now, people are talking seriously about being on the verge of WWIII, and its not even the top stories. I can go to news.com.au, and the headlines are abou
Kanye, a Kardashian, some "racist rant" on a train, some Instragram rubbish, and what some woman said on TicTok.

A lot of our "news" is that crap, too. Those shows usually air before or
after the local and network news and are dodgy at best but, yeah, there is
a lot about Kim Kardashian lately and her trouble with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Going on a "racist/sexist/xenophobic/anti-alphabet"
rant anywhere in public is also going to get a lot of repeat attention if
it gets video recorded by anyone with a cell phone.

On our ABC new site, its not much better.
Articles vying for top spot which are NOT news but merely some journalists musings on some pet social issue they want us to care about.

FOX and CNN websites are like that, too. A lot of things that are opinion pieces that are labeled as news. Others pieces have clickbait headlines but the story is not really what the headline says it is. I have not checked what the major over-the-air network news sites are like in a while.

So I think it is in part what you said, less information, but also in part tha
we have a different breed of journalists who don't know, and don't care, to report to us actual news.

I cannot disagree there. They like to report what is going to get eyes on their website/network/etc., so, a lot of times it is infotainment or controversial opinion more than "real" news.


* SLMR 2.1a * "I sure smell bad after wearing these leathers." * Troi

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Fri Oct 07 2022 12:28 pm

I getr the impression that Russian people are historically been kept poor, and the government keeps the people fed by forcing low food prices and subsidizing liquor. Corruption is rampant, and things do not get doen

There is not such a thing as forcing low food prices, and any minister claiming otherwise has not seen European countries in the heyday of regulated food prices.

Long story short: if Pedro Sánchez sets a max price of one dollar per loaf of bread, but it takes me three dollar to produce it, one of the following is gonna happen:

* I am not going to sell any bread and I am gonna keep all of my bread for family and friends.

* I am going to sell my bread in a dark alley for a price that allows me to turn at least some profit.

What I am not going to do is to sell bread at a loss, specially if the scenario os post apocalyptic and food supply is not granted (see post WWII Germany and post Civil War Spain).

PS: There is an old saying: When a cuntry is really fucked up, corruption is not a problem, but the solution. Tha rationale is that if the government is so greedy that it allows nothing to be done without paying a tax bribe, or its regulatory demands are so heavy as to be unmeetable by regular people, any public officer willing to facilitate things for a small fee is a benefactor rather than an enemy.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
￭ Synchronet ￭ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Oct 06 2022 10:41 pm

During the conflict Russia has been losing an average of 500 trained troops a day. In the approach to Kherson they lost another 2500 in a day or two. Russia's downfall was a high level of corruption over time. The taking of Kie v was thwarted by old dry-rotted Chinese military tires that were never replac ed . New soldiers that have been mobilized are buying their own winter r
gear and camoflage because 1.5 million uniforms are missing. They were eithe
r sold off or the generals who were given funding pocketed the money.

The Russian's anti-rocket reactive armor has been removed and sold off several years ago, and the soldiers who stole it were long gone. The pictures of armor on the news are of T-62 tanks, which were considered effective in the early 1960's. During the onset of war, Russian Su-34's and 37's were ineffective on bombing roles because pilots are trained to fire precision munitions they hard in small quantities, and were forced to use their mk I eyeballs to drop (and miss) older dumb bombs.

If Russia was as well equipped and trained as we used to think, Russia would've taken the Ukraine in 2 or three months. The best upgrade the new AK12 was the optics rail to facilitate modern optics, however troops were not
issued optics because of the theft concern. The newly mobilised troops are probably getting AK-74's made in the 70's or even 60's era AK-47's.

I wouldn't be surprised if they issued every other troop a rifle, and assign his battle buddy with just a magazine.

I am not too interested in instances of incompetency by the Russian government/military or examples of poor logistics and sourcing of equipment becuase I know the UK military, along with a number of European forces, are in a similar state. We, the British, have a load of aircraft carriers with no planes which we like to set sail in the Far East to "intimidate" China to no avail.

This little border skirmish or proxy war is about much more than Ukraine or Russia winning back its former sattelite states. This is a war about global energy, resources, currency, trade, and it involves bigger players, such as China and the USA.

I can spot a powder keg when it's about to go off and I can see that there is much more to this than people give it credit.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Fri Oct 07 2022 03:21 am

I am out of the look. WHat has happened in the UK that I have missed?

The Pound Sterling dropped to its lowest value in the exchange rate vs the USD at 1.03 per USD. The UK's pensions industry is basically a ponzi scheme using borrowed money as there are no safe investment opportunities that give a good return on investment due to the extremely low interest rates we have had over the last 15 years. Most investment firms have to provide a 6 percent return which is impossible, however the pensions industry have used clients money to borrow far more cash which they have then spent in the UK government bonds market to bring in a more suitable return. The low pound meant that banks and creditors were issuing margin calls which the pension funds could not pay as they were so highly leveraged, and so the whole industry almost came crumbling down along with all private pensions. The Bank of England (BoE) intervened by printing money and purchasing goverment bonds to stabilise the currency once again. As we know, there is only so much money you can print before inflation becomes a huge issue. They are unable to carry out quantitiative tightening now to combat inflation as they have made it monetary policy to carry out quantitative easing. Hyper-inflation will occur as the goverment are completely out of ideas on how to tackle the mess they've found themselves in.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Moondog on Fri Oct 07 2022 04:05 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Fri Oct 07 2022 12:28 pm

I getr the impression that Russian people are historically been kept poor and the government keeps the people fed by forcing low food prices and subsidizing liquor. Corruption is rampant, and things do not get doen through standard channels. A friend that used to travel overseas said it was common in former soviet states for peopel to have a real job they pay taxes

only thing different it seems is they can afford their food.
sounds like a good deal.

If pigs could vote, they would vote for the guy that feeds and shelters them.
It doesn't bother them if he's fattening them up for a trip to the slaughterhouse.

The older people who claimed to love the old soviet system grew up in an artificially generated financial and social system. People didn't care how inept or incompetent their leaders are because they could scrounge enough to f eed nearly everyone. The people they woudln't feed were sent off to labor camps in Sibera for political reasons. Everyone appears happy if you hide
the unhappy people.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Dumas Walker to BORAXMAN on Fri Oct 07 2022 05:38 pm

A good point about lack of journalistic access to what is going on on the ground. I remember the Gulf War (the first one), and the level of detail the analysis and coverage. All day coverage for days, which was a lot mor than the 2003 Invasion.

Yes, I also remember that. It was all the time coverage. I had friends over there so I watched a lot of it. 9/11 and the aftermath (anthrax letters, the DC shooters) had similar coverage.

Now, people are talking seriously about being on the verge of WWIII, and i not even the top stories. I can go to news.com.au, and the headlines are Kanye, a Kardashian, some "racist rant" on a train, some Instragram rubbis and what some woman said on TicTok.

A lot of our "news" is that crap, too. Those shows usually air before or after the local and network news and are dodgy at best but, yeah, there is
a lot about Kim Kardashian lately and her trouble with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Going on a "racist/sexist/xenophobic/anti-alphabet" rant anywhere in public is also going to get a lot of repeat attention if
it gets video recorded by anyone with a cell phone.

On our ABC new site, its not much better.
Articles vying for top spot which are NOT news but merely some journalists musings on some pet social issue they want us to care about.

FOX and CNN websites are like that, too. A lot of things that are opinion pieces that are labeled as news. Others pieces have clickbait headlines but the story is not really what the headline says it is. I have not checked wh the major over-the-air network news sites are like in a while.

So I think it is in part what you said, less information, but also in part we have a different breed of journalists who don't know, and don't care, t report to us actual news.

I cannot disagree there. They like to report what is going to get eyes on their website/network/etc., so, a lot of times it is infotainment or controversial opinion more than "real" news.

* SLMR 2.1a * "I sure smell bad after wearing these leathers." * Troi

In the early 80's the CNN cable network got it's fame for reporting "news as
it happens." Unfortunately this reporting being done is all
hypothesis, conjecture, and poorly researched and possibly false story
telling.

During the period of the Beltway Shootings, there were no witnesses or evidenc e left, but they were already rpofiled as white extremists drving around in a work van. It turned out to be a black man and younger black male (step son?) thta fired shots through the keyhole in back of a trunk lid of a car. The Atlanta Olympic Bombing was blamed on the security guard who found the bomb an d hovered over the bomb to protect others from shrapnel. When it became
known he had been rejected for a police job, they all assumed he cooked up
the bombing in order to become the hero of the day. look how the news tried
to destroy Kyle Rittenhouse?

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Arelor to Moondog on Sat Oct 08 2022 11:02 am

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Fri Oct 07 2022 12:28 pm

I getr the impression that Russian people are historically been kept poor and the government keeps the people fed by forcing low food prices and subsidizing liquor. Corruption is rampant, and things do not get doen

There is not such a thing as forcing low food prices, and any minister claim otherwise has not seen European countries in the heyday of regulated food prices.

Long story short: if Pedro Sánchez sets a max price of one dollar per loaf o bread, but it takes me three dollar to produce it, one of the following is gonna happen:

* I am not going to sell any bread and I am gonna keep all of my bread for family and friends.

* I am going to sell my bread in a dark alley for a price that allows me to turn at least some profit.

What I am not going to do is to sell bread at a loss, specially if the scena os post apocalyptic and food supply is not granted (see post WWII Germany an post Civil War Spain).

PS: There is an old saying: When a cuntry is really fucked up, corruption is not a problem, but the solution. Tha rationale is that if the government is greedy that it allows nothing to be done without paying a tax bribe, or its regulatory demands are so heavy as to be unmeetable by regular people, any public officer willing to facilitate things for a small fee is a benefactor rather than an enemy.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

Price fixing is done through subsidies. The government uses tax
money to pay the suppliers so the end price is much
less to the end buyer. The goverment pays to shear the sheep out of subsidy money so there's a supply wool available during winter coat season.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Sat Oct 08 2022 04:23 pm

The older people who claimed to love the old soviet system grew up in an artificially generated financial and social system. People didn't care how inept or incompetent their leaders are because they could scrounge enough to f eed nearly everyone. The people they woudln't feed were sent off to labor camps in Sibera for political reasons. Everyone appears happy if you hide the unhappy people.

also we have no idea how it is over there. there's a slanted biased perception on both sides.

they probably think we are total shit too.

look at our president. atleast theirs isnt a total fucking retard.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to Dumas Walker on Sat Oct 08 2022 04:37 pm

In the early 80's the CNN cable network got it's fame for reporting "news as it happens." Unfortunately this reporting being done is all
hypothesis, conjecture, and poorly researched and possibly false story telling.

During the period of the Beltway Shootings, there were no witnesses or evidenc e left, but they were already rpofiled as white extremists drving around in a work van. It turned out to be a black man and younger black male (step son?) thta fired shots through the keyhole in back of a trunk lid

i never heard of the white supremacist angle.

i always thought it was a hole in the side panel of the trunk.
motherfuckers had a little hole for the muzzle and another one for the
scope.

https://i.imgur.com/T2dfPbZ.png
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Moondog on Sat Oct 08 2022 04:46 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Oct 06 2022 10:41 pm

During the conflict Russia has been losing an average of 500 trained troo a day. In the approach to Kherson they lost another 2500 in a day or two Russia's downfall was a high level of corruption over time. The taking o Kie v was thwarted by old dry-rotted Chinese military tires that were nev replac ed . New soldiers that have been mobilized are buying their own winter r
gear and camoflage because 1.5 million uniforms are missing. They were eithe
r sold off or the generals who were given funding pocketed the money.

The Russian's anti-rocket reactive armor has been removed and sold off several years ago, and the soldiers who stole it were long gone. The pictures of armor on the news are of T-62 tanks, which were considered effective in the early 1960's. During the onset of war, Russian Su-34's 37's were ineffective on bombing roles because pilots are trained to fire precision munitions they hard in small quantities, and were forced to use their mk I eyeballs to drop (and miss) older dumb bombs.

If Russia was as well equipped and trained as we used to think, Russia would've taken the Ukraine in 2 or three months. The best upgrade the ne AK12 was the optics rail to facilitate modern optics, however troops were not
issued optics because of the theft concern. The newly mobilised troops probably getting AK-74's made in the 70's or even 60's era AK-47's.

I wouldn't be surprised if they issued every other troop a rifle, and ass his battle buddy with just a magazine.

I am not too interested in instances of incompetency by the Russian government/military or examples of poor logistics and sourcing of equipment becuase I know the UK military, along with a number of European forces, are a similar state. We, the British, have a load of aircraft carriers with no planes which we like to set sail in the Far East to "intimidate" China to no avail.

This little border skirmish or proxy war is about much more than Ukraine or Russia winning back its former sattelite states. This is a war about global energy, resources, currency, trade, and it involves bigger players, such as China and the USA.

I can spot a powder keg when it's about to go off and I can see that there i much more to this than people give it credit.

There is an old adage, "an army travels on it's stomach, " and the troops on the logistics end have stratgeies regarding transporting vital equipment as well as keep the supply chain moving reagarding the sourcing and purchase on new ammo and repair parts. This is where the Russians screwed up. Assuming their logistics were on par with what is supposedly being the one of the largest top fighting forces, even old equipment sitting on shelvess must be accounted for, then replaced or upgraded as needed. If you have a pntry of perishable foods, you have to rotate your canned goods so that long term storage items are in safe, edible condition and consumed before they expire, otherwise you're eating items with 3+ years shelf life and the back of the pantry is loaded with cans 10 years past the "eat before" date.

The same applies withvehicles sitting in inactive reserve yards. If you had
a collector's car or race car you store off season, fluids should be checked and batteries checked and engines periodically turned over to avoid plugged fuel filters and radiators when the car is ran hard after taken from storage.
All countries have schedules to maintain secondary or inactive forces kit,
and the term "you cannot manage what you cannot measure" applies to what the books say you have versus what is in the back of the warehouse. The
corruption makes it worse when this care taking is factored in to maintaining the condition of equipment, then the money set aside is spent on personal
weath or items are sold off on the black market.

Another popular saying is the gear you assign your troops was intended for fighting the last war, and you go war with what you have, then request what
you want along the way. After Crimea was annexed by Russia close to 10 years ago, the Ukraine made major upgrades to equipment and finding new ways to
make older eqwuipment more effective. If you hunt each season, you clean
oil, then store your equipment for next season. If it sits for several seasons, you have mold, rot and rust to contend with. Anything not properly stored will be easy to find, but take time to remedy.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Dumas Walker wrote to BORAXMAN <=-

A good point about lack of journalistic access to what is going on on the ground. I remember the Gulf War (the first one), and the level of detail in the analysis and coverage. All day coverage for days, which was a lot more than the 2003 Invasion.

Yes, I also remember that. It was all the time coverage. I had
friends over there so I watched a lot of it. 9/11 and the aftermath (anthrax letters, the DC shooters) had similar coverage.

Now, people are talking seriously about being on the verge of WWIII, and its not even the top stories. I can go to news.com.au, and the headlines are

abou

Kanye, a Kardashian, some "racist rant" on a train, some Instragram rubbish, and what some woman said on TicTok.

A lot of our "news" is that crap, too. Those shows usually air before
or after the local and network news and are dodgy at best but, yeah,
there is a lot about Kim Kardashian lately and her trouble with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Going on a "racist/sexist/xenophobic/anti-alphabet" rant anywhere in public is
also going to get a lot of repeat attention if it gets video recorded
by anyone with a cell phone.

On our ABC new site, its not much better.
Articles vying for top spot which are NOT news but merely some journalists musings on some pet social issue they want us to care about.

FOX and CNN websites are like that, too. A lot of things that are
opinion pieces that are labeled as news. Others pieces have clickbait headlines but the story is not really what the headline says it is. I have not checked what the major over-the-air network news sites are
like in a while.

So I think it is in part what you said, less information, but also in part

tha

we have a different breed of journalists who don't know, and don't care, to report to us actual news.

I cannot disagree there. They like to report what is going to get eyes
on their website/network/etc., so, a lot of times it is infotainment or controversial opinion more than "real" news.

I'm shocked, well, I shouldn't be shocked, but I still am, as to how many articles are quite literally just based on a few tweets or a TikTok. news.com.au is bad for this. They will find a TikTok video by a woman (its always a woman, usually white and young), and make a story about it. She might be surprised by something in Australia, or say something controversial like Marmite is better than Vegemite and it gets spun into an entire STORY about how "the internet is divided". The other trick is to say there is a controversy about something, and the controversy consists of 10 tweets. Fake news. Literally fake news.

The "racist rants" one are again fake news. The thing is, that journalists say they need to gatekeep the news, determine what is actually news and what isn't.
But if this is what passes as "news", I don't trust their gatekeeping at all.

There really isn't any news. It's clickbait, and as you said, just opinion pieces. "Articles" which is just some journalists wanting to make a moral point. One major story going round Melbourne, is Andrew Thornton. He was the CEO of a football club, and was basically made to resign after controversy. The story is still going after one week. The controversy? He attended a church 10 years ago, where a pastor today takes a more, biblical, stance on abortion and homosexuality. Thats the story!


--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

In the early 80's the CNN cable network got it's fame for reporting "news as it happens." Unfortunately this reporting being done is all
hypothesis, conjecture, and poorly researched and possibly false story telling.

Some of the local (Louisville) TV stations got into the "keeping up with
the Jonses" game and performed similar reporting for a few years. I think
they got the message that their local viewers didn't like that and have
gone back to less sensationalism and not reporting things that turn out to
be the opposite later.

During the period of the Beltway Shootings, there were no witnesses or evidenc
e left, but they were already rpofiled as white extremists drving around in a work van. It turned out to be a black man and younger black male (step son?) thta fired shots through the keyhole in back of a trunk lid of a car.

I remember that. There have been several instances recently where a
shooting or other violence happens, white extremists are theorized to
blame, and then the story suddenly drops from the news cycle when it is
found they were not. The muslim man who was killing other muslims in the
SW US earlier this year is one example. A couple of instances of workplace violence earlier in the year were also originally blamed on white
extremists but turned out otherwise and quickly fell out of the news.

The
Atlanta Olympic Bombing was blamed on the security guard who found the bomb an
d hovered over the bomb to protect others from shrapnel. When it became known he had been rejected for a police job, they all assumed he cooked up the bombing in order to become the hero of the day. look how the news tried to destroy Kyle Rittenhouse?

The FBI helped destroy the security guard in Atlanta, which made things
even worse as the news had a supposedly (but not really) reliable source
for their misinformation.

Some of the things that came out during the Rittenhouse trial sure were interesting, and it is certainly another good example.


* SLMR 2.1a * A father is a banker provided by nature.

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

I'm shocked, well, I shouldn't be shocked, but I still am, as to how many articles are quite literally just based on a few tweets or a TikTok. news.com.au is bad for this. They will find a TikTok video by a woman (its always a woman, usually white and young), and make a story about it. She migh
be surprised by something in Australia, or say something controversial like Marmite is better than Vegemite and it gets spun into an entire STORY about ho
"the internet is divided". The other trick is to say there is a controversy about something, and the controversy consists of 10 tweets. Fake news. Literally fake news.

There is a lot of "controversy" that consists of "mean tweets" or other
social media verbal vomit that gets spun into news here, too. Some dead
horses that started as actual news but have been beat to death also fill
the slower news days.

The "racist rants" one are again fake news. The thing is, that journalists sa
they need to gatekeep the news, determine what is actually news and what isn't
But if this is what passes as "news", I don't trust their gatekeeping at all.

Agreed. They report them as news to stir up division, which is good for ratings.

There really isn't any news. It's clickbait, and as you said, just opinion pieces. "Articles" which is just some journalists wanting to make a moral point. One major story going round Melbourne, is Andrew Thornton. He was the
CEO of a football club, and was basically made to resign after controversy. The story is still going after one week. The controversy? He attended a church 10 years ago, where a pastor today takes a more, biblical, stance on abortion and homosexuality. Thats the story!

That is not even a reason to resign, much less for a controversy or a spot
in the news cycle.


* SLMR 2.1a * Most political jokes get elected

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Sat Oct 08 2022 11:21 pm

There is an old adage, "an army travels on it's stomach, " and the troops on the logistics end have stratgeies regarding transporting vital equipment as well as keep the supply chain moving reagarding the sourcing and purchase on new ammo and repair parts. This is where the Russians screwed up. Assuming their logistics were on par with what is supposedly being the one of the largest top fighting forces, even old equipment sitting on shelvess must be accounted for, then replaced or upgraded as needed. If you have a pntry of perishable foods, you have to rotate your canned goods so that long term storage items are in safe, edible condition and consumed before they expire, otherwise you're eating items with 3+ years shelf life and the back of the pantry is loaded with cans 10 years past the "eat before" date.

<SNIP>

I agree with everything you've said. The problem is that you are assuming the Russians, as a whole, are incompetent. This is simply propoganda as this information is coming to you from the MSM and other controlled biased outlets.

I reckon if you watch Russia Today, you will find similar stories of how woefully unprepared the Ukranains are along with stories on how hollowed out NATO armies are.

The Russians are not incompetent, they've never historically been incompetent, and I doubt things have changed. I know that this is going to blow up and it will involve NATO forces, and no, we won't just roll in there with our superior soldiers and more advanced weaponary and wipe them out. That will simply not happen and I have no idea where Westerners get their confidence from (other than from the MSM).

I hope you are right, but I would put my life savings on you being wrong about there being to worry about. I know as well as you do that Ukraine's days are numbered and there is so much animosity between the East, China included, and the West that this little war is going to have dire consequenses for all the rest of us.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Moondog on Sat Oct 08 2022 09:18 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Sat Oct 08 2022 04:23 pm

The older people who claimed to love the old soviet system grew up in an artificially generated financial and social system. People didn't care h inept or incompetent their leaders are because they could scrounge enough f eed nearly everyone. The people they woudln't feed were sent off to la camps in Sibera for political reasons. Everyone appears happy if you hid the unhappy people.

also we have no idea how it is over there. there's a slanted biased percept

they probably think we are total shit too.

look at our president. atleast theirs isnt a total fucking retard.

I watch youtube videos from Estonians, Ukarainians, and few Russian
youtubers. The Russian youtubers do videos on going to the mall or large grocery stores and show how trade sanctions are hurting their economy.
Several of thir more popular food staples, such as potatoes, h ave raised in price, but have lowered in quality. Smaller type potatos souced from farms that a putting in lower bids and cutting corners such as not washing or spraying off the mud on potatoes. The prices are decided on the most basic staples, but premium or luxxury meats and vegetables can charge more for
their product. I can imagine potatoes, rice, and beans being cheap. Eggs
and milk have tighter margins. Discount meats would be pork shoulders and other areas smaller chunks of meatr remain after processing.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Moondog on Sat Oct 08 2022 09:22 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to Dumas Walker on Sat Oct 08 2022 04:37 pm

In the early 80's the CNN cable network got it's fame for reporting "news it happens." Unfortunately this reporting being done is all
hypothesis, conjecture, and poorly researched and possibly false story telling.

During the period of the Beltway Shootings, there were no witnesses or evidenc e left, but they were already rpofiled as white extremists drving around in a work van. It turned out to be a black man and younger black male (step son?) thta fired shots through the keyhole in back of a trunk

i never heard of the white supremacist angle.

i always thought it was a hole in the side panel of the trunk.
motherfuckers had a little hole for the muzzle and another one for the scope.

https://i.imgur.com/T2dfPbZ.png

You're correct on the shooting holes. I'm working off memory. White supremist is not correct either. Skecthy looking white folk in camoflage
was how they were profiled.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Oct 09 2022 10:40 am

I watch youtube videos from Estonians, Ukarainians, and few Russian youtubers. The Russian youtubers do videos on going to the mall or large grocery stores and show how trade sanctions are hurting their economy. Several of thir more popular food staples, such as potatoes, h ave raised in price, but have lowered in quality. Smaller type potatos souced from farms that a putting in lower bids and cutting corners such as not washing or spraying off the mud on potatoes. The prices are decided on the most basic staples, but premium or luxxury meats and vegetables can charge more for their product. I can imagine potatoes, rice, and beans being cheap. Eggs and milk have tighter margins. Discount meats would be pork shoulders and other areas smaller chunks of meatr remain after processing.

boy sound a lot like what i am going through over in the usa.

so how are they in worse shape than us?

also russia is friends with china. china practically owns and produces most things. or they can get it from the usa because we are their bitch.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Oct 09 2022 10:45 am

motherfuckers had a little hole for the muzzle and another one for the scope.

https://i.imgur.com/T2dfPbZ.png

You're correct on the shooting holes. I'm working off memory. White supremist is not correct either. Skecthy looking white folk in camoflage was how they were profiled.

i didnt know it was right in the back of the car. i'm suprised they just didnt do a flap on the side panel
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Sat Oct 08 2022 11:21 pm

There is an old adage, "an army travels on it's stomach, " and the troops on the logistics end have stratgeies regarding transporting vital equipment as well as keep the supply chain moving reagarding the sourcing and purchase on new ammo and repair parts. This is where the Russians screwed up. Assuming their logistics were on par with what is supposedly being the one of the largest top fighting forces, even old equipment sitting on shelvess must be accounted for, then replaced or upgraded as needed. If you have a pntry of perishable foods, you have to rotate your canned goods so that long term storage items are in safe, edible condition and consumed before they expire, otherwise you're eating items with 3+ years shelf life and the back of the pantry is loaded with cans 10 years past the "eat before" date.

<SNIP>

I agree with everything you've said. The problem is that you are
assuming the Russians, as a whole, are incompetent. This is simply propoganda as this information is coming to you from the MSM and other controlled biased outlets.

I reckon if you watch Russia Today, you will find similar stories of
how woefully unprepared the Ukranains are along with stories on how hollowed out NATO armies are.

The Russians are not incompetent, they've never historically been incompetent, and I doubt things have changed. I know that this is going
to blow up and it will involve NATO forces, and no, we won't just roll
in there with our superior soldiers and more advanced weaponary and
wipe them out. That will simply not happen and I have no idea where Westerners get their confidence from (other than from the MSM).

I hope you are right, but I would put my life savings on you being
wrong about there being to worry about. I know as well as you do that Ukraine's days are numbered and there is so much animosity between the East, China included, and the West that this little war is going to
have dire consequenses for all the rest of us.

What concerns me a lot is our hubris. We stomp all over the world as if we own the place, and I think we don't quite understand how much of a threat we appear to be to Russia and China. We've been accustomed to thinking that we are the world, that our ideas, our actions are the new-normal and the world really should follow our example.

We turn entire continents upside down, have reshaped Europe, and we think we're going to get away with this? Russia is going to sit idly by as a new Western Fascism emerges? China is just going to sit by?

Our belief that we are the only game in town is all we've got left. We're a spent civilisation, and a new power is seeing the emerging vacuum.

... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 2022 10:16 pm

What concerns me a lot is our hubris. We stomp all over the world as if we own the place, and I think we don't quite understand how much of a threat we appear to be to Russia and China. We've been accustomed to thinking that we are the world, that our ideas, our actions are the new-normal and the world really should follow our example.

if you're talking about the usa and allies going to other countries and getting into conflicts or whatever, we are not doing that just because we feel like it. we are OBLIGATED via treaties and other agreements to get involved. Otherwise, such involvement without being asked would be acts of war.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Moondog on Sun Oct 09 2022 07:46 pm

There is an old adage, "an army travels on it's stomach, " and the troops on the logistics end have stratgeies regarding transporting vital equipment as well as keep the supply chain moving reagarding the sourcing and purchase on new ammo and repair parts. This is where the Russians screwed up. Assuming their logistics were on par with what is supposedly being the one of the largest top fighting forces, even old equipment sitting on shelvess must be accounted for, then replaced or upgraded as

<SNIP>

I agree with everything you've said. The problem is that you are assuming the Russians, as a whole, are incompetent. This is simply propoganda as this information is coming to you from the MSM and other controlled biased outlets.

also he seems to miss out on the fact that the russians have been the ones selling weapons for quite some time. i think the media is twisting this whole situation. we don't know what they have. we don't know what are thinking.

probably the only country to beat russia was japan when they were fighting the expansion into east asia. part of that loss was because china was not on russia's side.

now russia's money is in chinese banks. china is on russia's side.
china has the largest army in the world. north korea has a large army;slightly less than the usa.

if china wasn't so composed they could go balls deep in this conflict and n korea would join and we'd have a huge world war.

and what do we have in the usa? A country that is falling apart with girls cutting their breasts off and men pretending to be women. we have a president who shits himself when visiting the pope and farts on the royal family. he can't stay awake unless they give him a strong drug cocktail. when he is awake he's a fucking loon.

russia and china have intelligent dignified leaders. not only that, but they are dangerous. I would not try to take putin in a fight man to man and that dude is 5'6 and 150 lbs. any regular man i could clobber. infact, i hit my ex's husband and he was about that spec and he literally went flying through the air. putin is a dangerous killer.
now i'm rambling, but rambling is fun.

anyways, people are stupid. biden is stupid. my gas is way too fucking expensive. don't poke the bear.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 2022 10:16 pm

What concerns me a lot is our hubris. We stomp all over the world as if we own the place, and I think we don't quite understand how much of a threat we appear to be to Russia and China. We've been accustomed to thinking that we are the world, that our ideas, our actions are the new-normal and the world really should follow our example.

We turn entire continents upside down, have reshaped Europe, and we think we're going to get away with this? Russia is going to sit idly by as a new Western Fascism emerges? China is just going to sit by?

Our belief that we are the only game in town is all we've got left. We're a spent civilisation, and a new power is seeing the emerging vacuum.

I do not think I have met anyone in real life who has taken the threat of Russia and China seriously. This shows how far the MSN has seized control of people's minds. Russia and China are not backwater nations, they are superpowers unlike Afghanistan and Iraq, lol.

We are suffering as it stands with the cost of living crisis in the UK where we are all paying 4x the normal price of energy along with rising food costs of around 15-20% and inflation increasing day by day. I don't know how anyone can fix this. I don't even want to think how bad conditions are going to become if we end up involved in all out war.

We are just normal people and we want to live our lives, why can't our governments understand that?

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Moondog on Sun Oct 09 2022 07:46 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Sat Oct 08 2022 11:21 pm

There is an old adage, "an army travels on it's stomach, " and the troops the logistics end have stratgeies regarding transporting vital equipment well as keep the supply chain moving reagarding the sourcing and purchase new ammo and repair parts. This is where the Russians screwed up. Assumi their logistics were on par with what is supposedly being the one of the largest top fighting forces, even old equipment sitting on shelvess must accounted for, then replaced or upgraded as needed. If you have a pntry perishable foods, you have to rotate your canned goods so that long term storage items are in safe, edible condition and consumed before they expi otherwise you're eating items with 3+ years shelf life and the back of th pantry is loaded with cans 10 years past the "eat before" date.

<SNIP>

I agree with everything you've said. The problem is that you are assuming th Russians, as a whole, are incompetent. This is simply propoganda as this information is coming to you from the MSM and other controlled biased outlet

I reckon if you watch Russia Today, you will find similar stories of how woefully unprepared the Ukranains are along with stories on how hollowed out NATO armies are.

The Russians are not incompetent, they've never historically been incompeten and I doubt things have changed. I know that this is going to blow up and it will involve NATO forces, and no, we won't just roll in there with our super soldiers and more advanced weaponary and wipe them out. That will simply not happen and I have no idea where Westerners get their confidence from (other than from the MSM).

I hope you are right, but I would put my life savings on you being wrong abo there being to worry about. I know as well as you do that Ukraine's days are numbered and there is so much animosity between the East, China included, an the West that this little war is going to have dire consequenses for all the rest of us.

When the Russians first rolled into Kiev earlier this year, their convoy had several vehicles showing dry rotted tires. The side walls were separating between the rim and tread. If there werer regular inspections, those tires were unsafe for driving around a test track let alone atke a road trip to invade another nation. A specially trained armored crew becomes infantryment when their radiators are full of corroded scale and their water pumps sieze
up. There is a saying, "for the want of a nail, a horse shoe is lost." To make it short, this loss of a shoe takes a rider from the fight. That rider was essential to winning the battle, and eventually a war. One missing nail seems isignificant, but what does that say about several horse improperly shoed?

Incompetent might be the wrong word to use. Due to their mandatory service
of 2(?) years, most troops do not become career troops. Troops spend their summers putting out forest fires, otherwise they beg for money during their break time. In the Western Services, the logistics guys and administrative people are non-commissioned officers. Specialists, corporals, and sergeants. The Russian army leads from the top and has colonels managing things we can do e
easily with lower ranked troops. That is why there were so many confirmed command officers (colonels, generals) being killed or captured early on. Imagine this was WWII, and Patton or Montgomery were caught leaving the French b
order dressed in German enlisted infantry uniforms? In peacetime those lead officers are in a position of trust, but aren't checked on a regular basis regarding the warehouses of hardware they could've told a sergeant to do if they were in a western army. Where did 15 million new uniforms intended for these reserve troops disappear to? How about all those tanks missing
reactive anti-armor plates? The Ukrainians pulled off the armor in terms of using it themselves, then found it was probably gone before it left the warehouse. Corruption at it's worst.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Moondog on Sun Oct 09 2022 06:15 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Oct 09 2022 10:40 am

I watch youtube videos from Estonians, Ukarainians, and few Russian youtubers. The Russian youtubers do videos on going to the mall or large grocery stores and show how trade sanctions are hurting their economy. Several of thir more popular food staples, such as potatoes, h ave raised price, but have lowered in quality. Smaller type potatos souced from far that a putting in lower bids and cutting corners such as not washing or spraying off the mud on potatoes. The prices are decided on the most basi staples, but premium or luxxury meats and vegetables can charge more for their product. I can imagine potatoes, rice, and beans being cheap. Egg and milk have tighter margins. Discount meats would be pork shoulders an other areas smaller chunks of meatr remain after processing.

boy sound a lot like what i am going through over in the usa.

so how are they in worse shape than us?

also russia is friends with china. china practically owns and produces most

Th Ukraine was the breadbasket of the soviet era, and still remains a major producer in grains and corn and livestock. It's mostly farmland.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Moondog on Sun Oct 09 2022 06:16 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Oct 09 2022 10:45 am

motherfuckers had a little hole for the muzzle and another one for the scope.

https://i.imgur.com/T2dfPbZ.png

You're correct on the shooting holes. I'm working off memory. White supremist is not correct either. Skecthy looking white folk in camoflage was how they were profiled.

i didnt know it was right in the back of the car. i'm suprised they just di

A flap or side panel would look suspicious. I suspect around the trunk
release because that is normally busted out and chopped around. A bungee
cord or clothes line string used to momentarily lower or raise the trunk lid c ould leave the lid open enough to make a shot, then lowered.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 2022 10:16 pm

Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Sat Oct 08 2022 11:21 pm

There is an old adage, "an army travels on it's stomach, " and the troops the logistics end have stratgeies regarding transporting vital equipment well as keep the supply chain moving reagarding the sourcing and purchase new ammo and repair parts. This is where the Russians screwed up. Assumi their logistics were on par with what is supposedly being the one of the largest top fighting forces, even old equipment sitting on shelvess must accounted for, then replaced or upgraded as needed. If you have a pntry perishable foods, you have to rotate your canned goods so that long term storage items are in safe, edible condition and consumed before they expi otherwise you're eating items with 3+ years shelf life and the back of th pantry is loaded with cans 10 years past the "eat before" date.

<SNIP>

I agree with everything you've said. The problem is that you are assuming the Russians, as a whole, are incompetent. This is simply propoganda as this information is coming to you from the MSM and other controlled biased outlets.

I reckon if you watch Russia Today, you will find similar stories of how woefully unprepared the Ukranains are along with stories on how hollowed out NATO armies are.

The Russians are not incompetent, they've never historically been incompetent, and I doubt things have changed. I know that this is going to blow up and it will involve NATO forces, and no, we won't just roll in there with our superior soldiers and more advanced weaponary and wipe them out. That will simply not happen and I have no idea where Westerners get their confidence from (other than from the MSM).

I hope you are right, but I would put my life savings on you being wrong about there being to worry about. I know as well as you do that Ukraine's days are numbered and there is so much animosity between the East, China included, and the West that this little war is going to have dire consequenses for all the rest of us.

What concerns me a lot is our hubris. We stomp all over the world as if we the place, and I think we don't quite understand how much of a threat we app to be to Russia and China. We've been accustomed to thinking that we are th world, that our ideas, our actions are the new-normal and the world really should follow our example.

We turn entire continents upside down, have reshaped Europe, and we think we going to get away with this? Russia is going to sit idly by as a new Wester Fascism emerges? China is just going to sit by?

Our belief that we are the only game in town is all we've got left. We're a spent civilisation, and a new power is seeing the emerging vacuum.

... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

It's unforunate that when the US had tried to stay out of the fight in the first half of the 20th century, the US would get pulled in. During the Cold War it wass soviet expansion into Eastern and posible Western Europe, aand
the domino principle in southeast Asia. Now that Russia has not been proving to be a good ally, we're now seeing destabilization btween Azerbijan and Armenia, and Dagistan and whoever their neighbor is. These countries are technically allies, but without Russia's might to play the bully, theythey
are no longer trusting their neighbors on their borders.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Boraxman on Mon Oct 10 2022 06:42 pm

Russia and China seriously. This shows how far the MSN has seized control of

by the way what is msn? i'm a huge abbreviation hater and I looked it up and can't find anything other than microsoft network.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 2022 11:54 am

When the Russians first rolled into Kiev earlier this year, their convoy had several vehicles showing dry rotted tires. The side walls were separating between the rim and tread. If there werer regular inspections, those tires

if they really were dry rotted and moving heavy troops and material they would blow out.

Incompetent might be the wrong word to use. Due to their mandatory service of 2(?) years, most troops do not become career troops. Troops spend their summers putting out forest fires, otherwise they beg for money during their break time. In the Western Services, the logistics guys and administrative people are non-commissioned officers. Specialists, corporals, and sergeants. The Russian army leads from the top and has colonels managing things we can do e
easily with lower ranked troops. That is why there were so many confirmed command officers (colonels, generals) being killed or captured early on. Imagine this was WWII, and Patton or Montgomery were caught leaving the French b
order dressed in German enlisted infantry uniforms? In peacetime those lead

this just sounds like propaganda you've been fed.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Mon Oct 10 2022 11:59 am

also russia is friends with china. china practically owns and produces most

Th Ukraine was the breadbasket of the soviet era, and still remains a major producer in grains and corn and livestock. It's mostly farmland.

what about all the human trafficking and germ warefare labs?
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Mon Oct 10 2022 12:04 pm

A flap or side panel would look suspicious. I suspect around the trunk release because that is normally busted out and chopped around. A bungee cord or clothes line string used to momentarily lower or raise the trunk lid c ould leave the lid open enough to make a shot, then lowered.

not if the car was a piece of shit. they could have just packed garbage around the hole and it would fit right in around here by me.
i'm sure it's the same over there.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

You're correct on the shooting holes. I'm working off memory. White supremist is not correct either. Skecthy looking white folk in camoflage
was how they were profiled.

"Sketchy looking white folks" c2001 would be described as "white
supremacists" by today's media so you were not too far off.


* SLMR 2.1a * HaHaHa! Yuk, Yuk. Snort. Harumph.

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 2022 10:16 pm

What concerns me a lot is our hubris. We stomp all over the world as if we own the place, and I think we don't quite understand how much of a threat we appear to be to Russia and China. We've been accustomed to thinking that we are the world, that our ideas, our actions are the new-normal and the world really should follow our example.

if you're talking about the usa and allies going to other countries and getting into conflicts or whatever, we are not doing that just because
we feel like it. we are OBLIGATED via treaties and other agreements to
get involved. Otherwise, such involvement without being asked would be acts of war. ---

I'm referring more to the business side of things. I read a story just before about how Microsoft pressured the UK government into abandoning a program to push Free Software. Microsoft threated to pull out some research site or development site. America also puts political and economic pressure on other countries, and American politics gets pushed on us too, mainly through Social Media..

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

Andeddu wrote to Boraxman <=-

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 2022 10:16 pm

What concerns me a lot is our hubris. We stomp all over the world as if we own the place, and I think we don't quite understand how much of a threat we appear to be to Russia and China. We've been accustomed to thinking that we are the world, that our ideas, our actions are the new-normal and the world really should follow our example.

We turn entire continents upside down, have reshaped Europe, and we think we're going to get away with this? Russia is going to sit idly by as a new Western Fascism emerges? China is just going to sit by?

Our belief that we are the only game in town is all we've got left. We're a spent civilisation, and a new power is seeing the emerging vacuum.

I do not think I have met anyone in real life who has taken the threat
of Russia and China seriously. This shows how far the MSN has seized control of people's minds. Russia and China are not backwater nations, they are superpowers unlike Afghanistan and Iraq, lol.

We are suffering as it stands with the cost of living crisis in the UK where we are all paying 4x the normal price of energy along with rising food costs of around 15-20% and inflation increasing day by day. I
don't know how anyone can fix this. I don't even want to think how bad conditions are going to become if we end up involved in all out war.

We are just normal people and we want to live our lives, why can't our governments understand that?

I have met people who have taken the threat of China quite seriously. Chinese influence is strong in Australia, as is Chinese migration so we see it more keenly. Chinese leasing the a Darwin Port, buying up land and properties here at a great degree. Also, Australia is geographically closer, quite tied to China through trade. Asia is on our doorstop, and we're more likely to be close to any Asian conflict than the UK is. Though the people who are concerned are still a minority for now.

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to MRO on Tue Oct 11 2022 09:38 pm

I'm referring more to the business side of things. I read a story just before about how Microsoft pressured the UK government into abandoning a program to push Free Software. Microsoft threated to pull out some research

i doubt that happened. uk is always the one taking microsoft to task over anti trust issues.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Tue Oct 11 2022 09:44 pm

I have met people who have taken the threat of China quite seriously. Chinese influence is strong in Australia, as is Chinese migration so we see it more keenly. Chinese leasing the a Darwin Port, buying up land and properties here at a great degree. Also, Australia is geographically closer, quite tied to China through trade. Asia is on our doorstop, and we're more likely to be close to any Asian conflict than the UK is. Though the people who are concerned are still a minority for now.

watch out they're gonna buy up all your housing. it's happening in canada and they're trying it in the usa.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 2022 05:59 pm

Russia and China seriously. This shows how far the MSN has seized
control of

by the way what is msn? i'm a huge abbreviation hater and I looked it up and can't find anything other than microsoft network.

I wonder if he meant MSM, mainstream media..

Nightfox

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 2022 01:38 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Moondog on Sun Oct 09 2022 07:46 pm

There is an old adage, "an army travels on it's stomach, " and the tro on the logistics end have stratgeies regarding transporting vital equipment as well as keep the supply chain moving reagarding the sourc and purchase on new ammo and repair parts. This is where the Russians screwed up. Assuming their logistics were on par with what is supposed being the one of the largest top fighting forces, even old equipment sitting on shelvess must be accounted for, then replaced or upgraded

<SNIP>

I agree with everything you've said. The problem is that you are assuming the Russians, as a whole, are incompetent. This is simply propoganda as t information is coming to you from the MSM and other controlled biased outlets.

also he seems to miss out on the fact that the russians have been the ones s

probably the only country to beat russia was japan when they were fighting t

now russia's money is in chinese banks. china is on russia's side.
china has the largest army in the world. north korea has a large army;sligh

if china wasn't so composed they could go balls deep in this conflict and n

and what do we have in the usa? A country that is falling apart with girls c they give him a strong drug cocktail. when he is awake he's a fucking loon.

russia and china have intelligent dignified leaders. not only that, but the s about that spec and he literally went flying through the air. putin is a now i'm rambling, but rambling is fun.

anyways, people are stupid. biden is stupid. my gas is way too fucking exp

I agree Putin is not someone to mess with unless you can back it up. The Ukrainians are of similar compostion, but are well versed in Putin's army's weapons and tactics, and wer forced to learn new tricks after Putin annexed Crimea and the Donbas nearly a decade ago. They are not fighting Stalin's army, nor the army that existed before the fall of the Soviet Union.
Putin's army is primarily a low level conscript force that has resorted to pulling troops out life in prison to fight. They are trained to attack civillians with artillery rather than professional troops.

China nd North Korea will not step in because of the Ukraine. Just like in Aghanistan, their intelligence forces will prop up their listening gear and observe. They are not interested in how Ukraine fights on their own. If the US had advisors there, they would sit back, listen, and learn.

I also agree The US is in a cultural confict with people destroying the
country from within, but we'vd also been lucky at times when people throw punches at the US, we have a strong patriotic following and a relatively hands-off military with regards to operation and fighting tactics.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 2022 05:59 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Boraxman on Mon Oct 10 2022 06:42 pm

Russia and China seriously. This shows how far the MSN has seized control

by the way what is msn? i'm a huge abbreviation hater and I looked it up and

My guess it is main stream news, oftenly referred to msm or mainstream media.


---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Moondog on Mon Oct 10 2022 06:01 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 2022 11:54 am

When the Russians first rolled into Kiev earlier this year, their convoy several vehicles showing dry rotted tires. The side walls were separatin between the rim and tread. If there werer regular inspections, those tir

if they really were dry rotted and moving heavy troops and material they wou

Incompetent might be the wrong word to use. Due to their mandatory servi of 2(?) years, most troops do not become career troops. Troops spend the summers putting out forest fires, otherwise they beg for money during the break time. In the Western Services, the logistics guys and administrati people are non-commissioned officers. Specialists, corporals, and sergeants. The Russian army leads from the top and has colonels managing things we can do e
easily with lower ranked troops. That is why there were so many confirme command officers (colonels, generals) being killed or captured early on. Imagine this was WWII, and Patton or Montgomery were caught leaving the French b
order dressed in German enlisted infantry uniforms? In peacetime those l

this just sounds like propaganda you've been fed.

The tires blew out, and they were forced to drive on them until CTIS tire inflation systems could not maintain pressure. Sidewall damage was from driving them nearly flat.

I couldnt find the name of th general, it's been a month since the exchange. Putin has been requesting the former puppet leaders he propped up last time land was taken from the Ukraine in exchange for soldiers. Some of these political prisoners taken while leaving the Ukraine not only had
political ties, but some have family ties with Putin. Thse trades are performed through outside moderators such as rthe Saudis. If it involves trading people outside the warring faction's borders, it's hard to call that propaganda.



---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Moondog on Mon Oct 10 2022 06:02 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Mon Oct 10 2022 11:59 am

also russia is friends with china. china practically owns and produce most

Th Ukraine was the breadbasket of the soviet era, and still remains a maj producer in grains and corn and livestock. It's mostly farmland.

what about all the human trafficking and germ warefare labs?

Yes Zelinky inherited all the corruption he swore to eliminate if he became pr esident. Several Russian oligarchs with financial ties with Putin were
jailed and several more were sent packing.

The labs existed before he took power. Besides Russian oligarchs I bet
you'll find ties with family members of Pelosi, Biden, and other US politicians.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Moondog on Mon Oct 10 2022 06:02 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Mon Oct 10 2022 12:04 pm

A flap or side panel would look suspicious. I suspect around the trunk release because that is normally busted out and chopped around. A bungee cord or clothes line string used to momentarily lower or raise the trunk c ould leave the lid open enough to make a shot, then lowered.

not if the car was a piece of shit. they could have just packed garbage arou i'm sure it's the same over there.

Sounds like it was a shitbox, no argument there.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Nightfox to MRO on Tue Oct 11 2022 09:31 am

by the way what is msn? i'm a huge abbreviation hater and I looked it up and can't find anything other than microsoft network.

I wonder if he meant MSM, mainstream media..

yeah why even abbreviate that.

i'm up to my neck in abbreviations.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Oct 11 2022 09:51 am

I agree Putin is not someone to mess with unless you can back it up. The Ukrainians are of similar compostion, but are well versed in Putin's army's weapons and tactics, and wer forced to learn new tricks after Putin annexed Crimea and the Donbas nearly a decade ago. They are not fighting Stalin's

you don't even know how adept their ukraine's military is. they are
getting help from other countries so obviously they aren't that great.

China nd North Korea will not step in because of the Ukraine. Just like in Aghanistan, their intelligence forces will prop up their listening gear and observe. They are not interested in how Ukraine fights on their own. If the US had advisors there, they would sit back, listen, and learn.

you don't know that and you don't know what they are thinking.
china is the ally of russia.

i don't know what you mean by listening or learn. it's a war and people are trying to win it.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Oct 11 2022 10:19 am

this just sounds like propaganda you've been fed.

The tires blew out, and they were forced to drive on them until CTIS tire inflation systems could not maintain pressure. Sidewall damage was from driving them nearly flat.

so... change the tire?

Putin has been requesting the former puppet leaders he propped up last time land was taken from the Ukraine in exchange for soldiers. Some of these political prisoners taken while leaving the Ukraine not only had
political ties, but some have family ties with Putin. Thse trades are performed through outside moderators such as rthe Saudis. If it involves trading people outside the warring faction's borders, it's hard to call that

okay whatever. don't know how this has anything to do with what we're talking about.

so you think ukraine's army is better than russia? russia is bombing their capital.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Oct 11 2022 10:25 am

maj producer in grains and corn and livestock. It's mostly farmland.

what about all the human trafficking and germ warefare labs?

Yes Zelinky inherited all the corruption he swore to eliminate if he became pr esident. Several Russian oligarchs with financial ties with Putin were jailed and several more were sent packing.

The labs existed before he took power. Besides Russian oligarchs I bet you'll find ties with family members of Pelosi, Biden, and other US politicians.

he's also a lot richer now than he was. i wonder how that happened.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Arelor on Sat Oct 08 2022 04:58 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Fri Oct 07 2022 03:21 am

I am out of the look. WHat has happened in the UK that I have missed?

The Pound Sterling dropped to its lowest value in the exchange rate vs the USD
at 1.03 per USD. The UK's pensions industry is basically a ponzi scheme using
borrowed money as there are no safe investment opportunities that give a good
return on investment due to the extremely low interest rates we have had over
the last 15 years. Most investment firms have to provide a 6 percent return which is impossible, however the pensions industry have used clients money to
borrow far more cash which they have then spent in the UK government bonds market to bring in a more suitable return. The low pound meant that banks and
creditors were issuing margin calls which the pension funds could not pay as they were so highly leveraged, and so the whole industry almost came crumbling
down along with all private pensions. The Bank of England (BoE) intervened by
printing money and purchasing goverment bonds to stabilise the currency once again. As we know, there is only so much money you can print before inflation
becomes a huge issue. They are unable to carry out quantitiative tightening now
to combat inflation as they have made it monetary policy to carry out quantitative easing. Hyper-inflation will occur as the goverment are completely
out of ideas on how to tackle the mess they've found themselves in.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Thanks for the information. It sounds sooooo Spanish to me it is frightening. At least
we have the EUR to lay on, which has a lot of inertia, but since the EUR has been
print to oblivion itself I don't expect anythinything good from it.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to Arelor on Sat Oct 08 2022 04:45 pm

Price fixing is done through subsidies. The government uses tax
money to pay the suppliers so the end price is much
less to the end buyer. The goverment pays to shear the sheep out of subsidy money so there's a supply wool available during winter coat season.

I am familiar. It still cascades into oblivion.

If I pay you so you can afford to purchase a tractor in order to make you capable of
producing cheaper corn, then tractor manufacturers will adjust prices. Soon, tractors
will be the expensive thing. Then you pay tractor manufacturers, so they can produce
tractors for cheap, and then it is the providers of the components used for building
tractoors who adjust prices and go expensive.

Eventually you hit a part of the supply chain you cannot control and the bubble collapses. See photovoltaics in Spain. Once subsidies were cut because there was no
way to sustain them, purchases of solar generators fell by 80% within the same month
and owners of factories started selling the manufacturing equipment to scrap yards and
getting paid by weight.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Oct 09 2022 10:40 am

youtubers. The Russian youtubers do videos on going to the mall or large grocery stores and show how trade sanctions are hurting their economy. Several of thir more popular food staples, such as potatoes, h ave raised in price, but have lowered in quality. Smaller type potatos souced from farms that a putting in lower bids and cutting corners such as not washing or spraying off the mud on potatoes. The prices are decided on the most basic staples, but premium or luxxury meats and vegetables can charge more for their product. I can imagine potatoes, rice, and beans being cheap. Eggs and milk have tighter margins. Discount meats would be pork shoulders and other areas smaller chunks of meatr remain after processing.

Russians are in it for an ugly ride because they are at war. So do we, even if it is
an indirect war.

I don't expect most people to be able to afford energy next year in Spain. I have been
talking to people who do industrial contracts and it is getting nuts. It has reached a
point in which you may want to open a carrot processing plant and the power company
denies you a power contract because they don't have electric power to sell to you.

Read again. It is not that there is power which is getting expensive. It is that the
electric power company no longer has the capabilities to sign a contract with you and
guarantee a supply for you.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

I'm referring more to the business side of things. I read a story just before about how Microsoft pressured the UK government into abandoning a program to push Free Software. Microsoft threated to pull out some researc

i doubt that happened. uk is always the one taking microsoft to task over ant
trust issues.

You might be confusing the UK with the EU. The EU has been pestering Microsoft, Apple, and Google a lot lately.


* SLMR 2.1a * He's got bats in the belfry.

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Boraxman on Tue Oct 11 2022 10:44 am

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to MRO on Tue Oct 11 2022 09:38 pm

I'm referring more to the business side of things. I read a story just before about how Microsoft pressured the UK government into abandoning a program to push Free Software. Microsoft threated to pull out some resea

i doubt that happened. uk is always the one taking microsoft to task over a

A company I used to contract at would donate life cycled hardware to a local non-pofit that would supply under privileged families with a desktop and monitor that is 3 to 5 years old, but still relevant for classwork and online activities. I've read of other groups trying to avoid the license hassle,
and install a linux distro such as Mint or Ubuntu. Upon asking, I learned MS has a partnership with these refurbishers, and provide activation keys and deployment servers and services to slipstream the OS install / imaging
process. I wouldn't be surprised if a special MS Office distribution comes installed, along with tools to indoctrinate budding developers into going the MS route first.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Tue Oct 11 2022 04:25 pm

i doubt that happened. uk is always the one taking microsoft to task over ant
trust issues.

You might be confusing the UK with the EU. The EU has been pestering Microsoft, Apple, and Google a lot lately.

the uk and the european union are both after microsfot for anti trust issues. and it's been an ongoing thing since windows 95 atleast
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: msn and free software
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Oct 11 2022 07:57 pm

A company I used to contract at would donate life cycled hardware to a local non-pofit that would supply under privileged families with a desktop and monitor that is 3 to 5 years old, but still relevant for classwork and online activities. I've read of other groups trying to avoid the license hassle,
and install a linux distro such as Mint or Ubuntu. Upon asking, I learned MS has a partnership with these refurbishers, and provide activation keys and deployment servers and services to slipstream the OS install / imaging process. I wouldn't be surprised if a special MS Office distribution comes installed, along with tools to indoctrinate budding developers into going

well things might have changed. i dont hear much about microsoft anymore.

gates and balmer were a different animal. very devious and competitive. apparently this indian guy nadella was educated in my current city of milwaukee.

I dont know much about him and he seems to keep a low profile.
he seems brilliant. i'm looking at his wikipedia article now.
i didnt know ms bought linkedin and github.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Tue Oct 11 2022 08:46 pm

the uk and the european union are both after microsfot for anti trust issues. and it's been an ongoing thing since windows 95 atleast

Back when the anti-trust case against Microsoft was happening in the US in the late 90s, I was hoping they'd split up Microsoft like they proposed, but it didn't happen.

I remember seeing a skit on Saturday Night Live around that time where they had a newsbrief about Microsoft and he said "Microsoft has merged with Christmas", and they were trying to decide if they want to call it "Christmasoft" or "Micromas".

Nightfox

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Oct 12 2022 08:02 am

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Tue Oct 11 2022 08:46 pm

the uk and the european union are both after microsfot for anti trust issues. and it's been an ongoing thing since windows 95 atleast

Back when the anti-trust case against Microsoft was happening in the US in the late 90s, I was hoping they'd split up Microsoft like they proposed, but it didn't happen.

well i believe they wanted to split off the browser and also they complained about the media player.

it would be a pretty lame split if they did it because of that.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Moondog on Tue Oct 11 2022 03:49 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Oct 11 2022 09:51 am

I agree Putin is not someone to mess with unless you can back it up. The Ukrainians are of similar compostion, but are well versed in Putin's army weapons and tactics, and wer forced to learn new tricks after Putin annex Crimea and the Donbas nearly a decade ago. They are not fighting Stalin'

you don't even know how adept their ukraine's military is. they are
getting help from other countries so obviously they aren't that great.

China nd North Korea will not step in because of the Ukraine. Just like Aghanistan, their intelligence forces will prop up their listening gear a observe. They are not interested in how Ukraine fights on their own. If the US had advisors there, they would sit back, listen, and learn.

you don't know that and you don't know what they are thinking.
china is the ally of russia.

i don't know what you mean by listening or learn. it's a war and people are

During our Afghanistan occupation, food and supplies used to travel through fr om Pakistan an area known as Korengal Valley. US radio intelligence was listening in on Taliban and allied villagers regarding who is watching and attacking the convoys. Insetad of a flow of Pashto or Dari dialects, they
were picing up North Korean and Chinese communications. For fear of some of the ANA radio frequencies being compromised, troops would use cheap "burner" flip phones for a day or two, then give them to some kid afterwards. Even
then communications will be intercepted and repeated over comms that have
been cracked. Who is cracking the encryption for the cave dwellers? North Korea and China. Ukraine has been very effective in destroying the top of
the line command control communications rigs with artillery and HIMARS, and Ru ssian troops were using cell phones to talk, which broadcasted their GPS coodrinates and exposed their positions. The alternative was unencrypted
cheap Chinese Bao Radioswith limited range.

Regarding Ukraine getting help, it only makes sense. They cut ties with
Russia in the 90's and have been on their own. The real push toward modernizing happened after Russia rolled in and annexed land nearly ten
years ago. A smaller country is going to ask for help to survive, but they
are doing well despite being predicted to taken in less than 2 months.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Moondog on Tue Oct 11 2022 03:57 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Oct 11 2022 10:19 am

this just sounds like propaganda you've been fed.

The tires blew out, and they were forced to drive on them until CTIS tire inflation systems could not maintain pressure. Sidewall damage was from driving them nearly flat.

so... change the tire?

Putin has been requesting the former puppet leaders he propped up last ti land was taken from the Ukraine in exchange for soldiers. Some of these political prisoners taken while leaving the Ukraine not only had political ties, but some have family ties with Putin. Thse trades are performed through outside moderators such as rthe Saudis. If it involves trading people outside the warring faction's borders, it's hard to call t

okay whatever. don't know how this has anything to do with what we're talkin

so you think ukraine's army is better than russia? russia is bombing their c

Russia lost several immobile vehicles to Ukraine armor and artillery for want of newer tires. For want of good tires the push to Kiev was crushed.

Ukraines' cities are being hit by cruise missiles, and the majority are being intercepted by older Patriot misssiles given to the Ukraine. Ukraine jets
and heicopters have air superiority over their airspace and St Petersburg has been mobilizing read guard S-300 air to air and modifying some to air to
ground missiles. They're taking from their own air defense to fight Ukraine.
Watch the territory maps each day, and you can see the land which is being re-taken. Ukraine is not better, but they do have a home court advantage.
Any land taken back by the Ukraine does not have to be heavily policed by occupied land. Instead of filling mass graves full of villiagers, the Ukrainain forces are taking the fight to the Russian troops.

Today I heard Belarus is lending tanks and artillery to Russia, but will not send trops across the border. That does say something about Russia's influence with their neighbors.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Wed Oct 12 2022 10:44 am

re-taken. Ukraine is not better, but they do have a home court advantage. Any land taken back by the Ukraine does not have to be heavily policed by occupied land. Instead of filling mass graves full of villiagers, the Ukrainain forces are taking the fight to the Russian troops.

they may have the home court advantage but they arent using guerilla warfare, unless you count hiding troops in hospitals.

just wait and see how it ends. i dont think it's as slanted as the media claims.

I think what russia is asking for is quite fair. i hope russia wins this.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Oct 12 2022 01:17 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Oct 12 2022 08:02 am

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Tue Oct 11 2022 08:46 pm

the uk and the european union are both after microsfot for anti trus issues. and it's been an ongoing thing since windows 95 atleast

Back when the anti-trust case against Microsoft was happening in the US i the late 90s, I was hoping they'd split up Microsoft like they proposed, it didn't happen.

well i believe they wanted to split off the browser and also they complained

it would be a pretty lame split if they did it because of that.

My understanding is the earliest version of Win95 shipped without any form of browser, and Netscape's browser was the clear successor. By shipping IE with the OS, it gave IE a clear advanrage because most basic users would use what the OS shipped with. Same applied with taking business away from the media player software manufacturers. The most software publishers, it felt like MS crossed the line between being the OS provider and application provider. Natgeo had a good documentary a few years back about the battle btween
Netscape and MS. plus stories of other sites that failed because their ideas wer ahead of their time. A large problem was figuring how to gather
telemetry and monetize accordingly with it.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Wed Oct 12 2022 05:57 pm

My understanding is the earliest version of Win95 shipped without any form of browser, and Netscape's browser was the clear successor. By shipping IE with the OS, it gave IE a clear advanrage because most basic users would use what the OS shipped with. Same applied with taking business away from the media player software manufacturers. The most software publishers, it felt like MS crossed the line between being the OS provider and application provider.
Natgeo had a good documentary a few years back about the battle btween Netscape and MS. plus stories of other sites that failed because their ideas wer ahead of their time. A large problem was figuring how to gather telemetry and monetize accordingly with it.

yeah and then they had the msn network and then later they installed links on the desktop for other services. cant keep everyone happy.
netscape was also commercial. you could use mosiac for free.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Moondog on Wed Oct 12 2022 09:41 pm

My understanding is the earliest version of Win95 shipped without any form of browser, and Netscape's browser was the clear successor. By shipping IE with the OS, it gave IE a clear advanrage because most basic users would use what the OS shipped with. Same applied with taking business away from the media player software manufacturers. The most software publishers, it felt like MS crossed the line between being the OS provider and application provider.
Natgeo had a good documentary a few years back about the battle btween Netscape and MS. plus stories of other sites that failed because their ideas wer ahead of their time. A large problem was figuring how to gather telemetry and monetize accordingly with it.

yeah and then they had the msn network and then later they installed links on the desktop for other services. cant keep everyone happy.
netscape was also commercial. you could use mosiac for free.

btw you can run win95 as an app now. https://github.com/felixrieseberg/windows95/releases

it has netscape on the desktop
https://i.imgur.com/rH7rqUm.png
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Wed Oct 12 2022 05:57 pm

My understanding is the earliest version of Win95 shipped without any form of browser, and Netscape's browser was the clear successor. By shipping IE with the OS, it gave IE a clear advanrage because most basic users would use what the OS shipped with. Same applied with taking business away from the media player software manufacturers. The most software publishers, it

Not only did later versions of Windows include Internet Explorer, Microsoft claimed it was integrated into Windows in such a way that it would be difficult to remove it. That was back when (I think) Microsoft was using sneaky tactics to try to corner the market. Microsoft also made IE behave a bit differently (in a non-standard way) than other web browsers, so by the time IE gained a lot of marketshare, some web sites pretty much worked only with IE.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Moondog on Wed Oct 12 2022 09:41 pm

yeah and then they had the msn network and then later they installed links on the desktop for other services. cant keep everyone happy. netscape was also commercial. you could use mosiac for free.

I remember a version of Netscape you could pay for. But I also remember Netscape being freely available for download on their web site. That's what I used.. I didn't use Mosaic.

Nightfox

Re: Microsoft
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Wed Oct 12 2022 09:56 pm

Not only did later versions of Windows include Internet Explorer, Microsoft claimed it was integrated into Windows in such a way that it would be difficult to remove it. That was back when (I think) Microsoft was using sneaky tactics to try to corner the market. Microsoft also made IE behave a

yeah they wove it into explorer.exe a bit.

sneaky tactics to try to corner the market. Microsoft also made IE behave a bit differently (in a non-standard way) than other web browsers, so by the time IE gained a lot of marketshare, some web sites pretty much worked only with IE.

standards back then weren't really strictly followed.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Oct 12 2022 09:57 pm

I remember a version of Netscape you could pay for. But I also remember Netscape being freely available for download on their web site. That's what I used.. I didn't use Mosaic.

i think they tried having a free version and a paid version when they weren't doing well against microsoft.

on da wikipedia it sez diz:

"Starting in 1995, Mosaic lost market share to Netscape Navigator and only had a tiny fraction of users left by 1997, when the project was discontinued. Microsoft licensed Mosaic to create Internet Explorer in 1995."

that's real ironic.

i used spry mosiac and regular mosiac, i think. i used it with aol and compuserv. it's the only way i could get internet access in my area.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Moondog on Wed Oct 12 2022 04:49 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Wed Oct 12 2022 10:44 am

re-taken. Ukraine is not better, but they do have a home court advantage. Any land taken back by the Ukraine does not have to be heavily policed by occupied land. Instead of filling mass graves full of villiagers, the Ukrainain forces are taking the fight to the Russian troops.

they may have the home court advantage but they arent using guerilla warfare

just wait and see how it ends. i dont think it's as slanted as the media cla

I think what russia is asking for is quite fair. i hope russia wins this.

I doubt the Ukraine won't stop until they reclaim all their lost land. Putin had is chance of saving face but has been troops and territory daily. His overwhelming forced failed in it's first month, they have been losing ground ever since.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Moondog on Wed Oct 12 2022 09:41 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Wed Oct 12 2022 05:57 pm

My understanding is the earliest version of Win95 shipped without any for of browser, and Netscape's browser was the clear successor. By shipping with the OS, it gave IE a clear advanrage because most basic users would what the OS shipped with. Same applied with taking business away from t media player software manufacturers. The most software publishers, it fe like MS crossed the line between being the OS provider and application provider.
Natgeo had a good documentary a few years back about the battle btween Netscape and MS. plus stories of other sites that failed because their id wer ahead of their time. A large problem was figuring how to gather telemetry and monetize accordingly with it.

yeah and then they had the msn network and then later they installed links o netscape was also commercial. you could use mosiac for free.

Dont' forget about MS's bastardization of Sun Java o make it "run better" in Windows by forcing the developers to choose Windows or Apple compatibilty.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Microsoft
By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Oct 13 2022 12:30 am

sneaky tactics to try to corner the market. Microsoft also made IE
behave a bit differently (in a non-standard way) than other web
browsers, so by the time IE gained a lot of marketshare, some web
sites pretty much worked only with IE.

standards back then weren't really strictly followed.

Microsoft certainly didn't strictly follow standards, but they used that to their advantage to get people to use IE.

I've often heard IE was the bane of web developers because they had to do things differently for their web site to work properly in IE.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Thu Oct 13 2022 09:08 am

Dont' forget about MS's bastardization of Sun Java o make it "run better" in Windows by forcing the developers to choose Windows or Apple compatibilty.

That was Microsoft's philosophy of "embrace, extend, extinguish". Their Java and IE were a couple of examples.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Thu Oct 13 2022 09:03 am

I think what russia is asking for is quite fair. i hope russia wins this.

I doubt the Ukraine won't stop until they reclaim all their lost land. Putin had is chance of saving face but has been troops and territory daily. His overwhelming forced failed in it's first month, they have been losing ground ever since.

i think ukraine's biggest advantage is it's so BIG.

and remember, putin doesn't want to take over ukraine. he just wants them out of nato and then there's some territorial disputes.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Thu Oct 13 2022 09:08 am

yeah and then they had the msn network and then later they installed links o netscape was also commercial. you could use mosiac for free.

Dont' forget about MS's bastardization of Sun Java o make it "run better" in Windows by forcing the developers to choose Windows or Apple compatibilty.

I don't remember that part, but i remember that for a long time java was a lot of hype. the java guy even went on oprah and said he was going to give these schools computers with a java os and he was showing them off and it was all a lie. they were empty boxes. never happened. also javascript was originally lightscript but they named it javascript because of all that hype.

i see there's information about the lawsuit here.
it's about ms modifying java for windows https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/sun-microsoft-settle-java-suit/
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Microsoft
By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Oct 13 2022 09:01 am

browsers, so by the time IE gained a lot of marketshare, some web
sites pretty much worked only with IE.

standards back then weren't really strictly followed.

Microsoft certainly didn't strictly follow standards, but they used that to their advantage to get people to use IE.

I've often heard IE was the bane of web developers because they had to do things differently for their web site to work properly in IE.

yeah but everyone was doing things their own way to some degree.
things could look different on 3 different browsers.

i think at some point microsoft just tried to muscle its way into being the standard.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 2022 05:59 pm

by the way what is msn? i'm a huge abbreviation hater and I looked it up and can't find anything other than microsoft network.

Sorry, that was a typo I never spotted. I meant to type MSM however I never saw all the text because my monitor is so small and it wasn't being displayed.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Tue Oct 11 2022 09:44 pm

I have met people who have taken the threat of China quite seriously. Chinese influence is strong in Australia, as is Chinese migration so we see it more keenly. Chinese leasing the a Darwin Port, buying up land and properties here at a great degree. Also, Australia is geographically closer, quite tied to China through trade. Asia is on our doorstop, and we're more likely to be close to any Asian conflict than the UK is. Though the people who are concerned are still a minority for now.

No one in the UK is mentioning anything in relation to China from what I can see. I haven't heard a single person speak about them at all as everything appears to be focused on Russia and their alleged ineptitude. People act like this is just a joke however everyone is paying 4x more for their energy bills and the banks are about to collapse, haha. I don't get it, I reckon a lot of people are going to suffer a kind of reality check soon when our comfortable way of life goes down the shitter.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Boraxman on Tue Oct 11 2022 10:45 am

watch out they're gonna buy up all your housing. it's happening in canada and they're trying it in the usa.

The balance of trade between the USA and China is so one sided that the Chinese have a lot of USD to re-invest so they tend to buy up huge swathes of housing in Western countries as holding onto a dying currency is not particularly clever.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Arelor to Moondog on Tue Oct 11 2022 05:05 pm

Russians are in it for an ugly ride because they are at war. So do we, even if it is
an indirect war.

I don't expect most people to be able to afford energy next year in Spain. I have been
talking to people who do industrial contracts and it is getting nuts. It has reached a
point in which you may want to open a carrot processing plant and the power company
denies you a power contract because they don't have electric power to sell to you.

The Russians are biding their time as our economies are due to collapse in the very near future. I see that a lot of Western industry is going to shutdown now as energy bills are making production non-viable. Soon we shall have to pivor to a war economy if we are going to survive as the only way continue our existence at the moment is to print money. The UK's central bank has already pivoted and US bankers are expecting the Fed to do the same along with European central banks. We have nothing left now and are really on the brink of economic collapse. The next year or two is being to be extremely interesting.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to MRO on Thu Oct 13 2022 06:35 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Andeddu on Mon Oct 10 2022 05:59 pm

by the way what is msn? i'm a huge abbreviation hater and I looked it up and can't find anything other than microsoft network.

Sorry, that was a typo I never spotted. I meant to type MSM however I never saw all the text because my monitor is so small and it wasn't being

i wouldnt even know what MSM was.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Boraxman on Thu Oct 13 2022 06:40 pm

No one in the UK is mentioning anything in relation to China from what I can see. I haven't heard a single person speak about them at all as everything appears to be focused on Russia and their alleged ineptitude. People act like this is just a joke however everyone is paying 4x more for their energy bills and the banks are about to collapse, haha. I don't get it, I reckon a lot of people are going to suffer a kind of reality check soon when our comfortable way of life goes down the shitter.

then in my country natural gas prices are going to go up.
makes no sense. we have plenty.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to MRO on Thu Oct 13 2022 06:43 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Boraxman on Tue Oct 11 2022 10:45 am

watch out they're gonna buy up all your housing. it's happening in canada and they're trying it in the usa.

The balance of trade between the USA and China is so one sided that the Chinese have a lot of USD to re-invest so they tend to buy up huge swathes of housing in Western countries as holding onto a dying currency is not particularly clever.

that's because china had an industrial revolution and everyone else sucks.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Arelor on Thu Oct 13 2022 06:51 pm

the very near future. I see that a lot of Western industry is going to shutdown now as energy bills are making production non-viable. Soon we shall have to pivor to a war economy if we are going to survive as the only way continue our existence at the moment is to print money. The UK's central bank has already pivoted and US bankers are expecting the Fed to do the same

in the usa this will go on until people are really pissed off and stop buying stuff. then they will ease back and it will happen again.

this is all a big game. nobody is really out of resources.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Arelor on Thu Oct 13 2022 06:51 pm

The Russians are biding their time as our economies are due to collapse in t very near future. I see that a lot of Western industry is going to shutdown as energy bills are making production non-viable. Soon we shall have to pivo to a war economy if we are going to survive as the only way continue our existence at the moment is to print money. The UK's central bank has already pivoted and US bankers are expecting the Fed to do the same along with Europ central banks. We have nothing left now and are really on the brink of econo collapse. The next year or two is being to be extremely interesting.

I actually suspect the plan of the Eastern powers is to let our economies collapse under their own weight. We don't need outside powers to destroy us. We are very good at it without any help.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Andeddu on Thu Oct 13 2022 03:55 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Boraxman on Thu Oct 13 2022 06:40 pm

No one in the UK is mentioning anything in relation to China from what I see. I haven't heard a single person speak about them at all as everythin appears to be focused on Russia and their alleged ineptitude. People act like this is just a joke however everyone is paying 4x more for their ene bills and the banks are about to collapse, haha. I don't get it, I reckon lot of people are going to suffer a kind of reality check soon when our comfortable way of life goes down the shitter.

then in my country natural gas prices are going to go up.
makes no sense. we have plenty.

US is shipping a buttload of natural gas to Ukraine for the winter

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Moondog to MRO on Fri Oct 14 2022 12:59 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: MRO to Andeddu on Thu Oct 13 2022 03:55 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Boraxman on Thu Oct 13 2022 06:40 pm

No one in the UK is mentioning anything in relation to China from what I see. I haven't heard a single person speak about them at all as everythin appears to be focused on Russia and their alleged ineptitude. People act like this is just a joke however everyone is paying 4x more for their ene bills and the banks are about to collapse, haha. I don't get it, I reckon lot of people are going to suffer a kind of reality check soon when our comfortable way of life goes down the shitter.

then in my country natural gas prices are going to go up.
makes no sense. we have plenty.

US is shipping a buttload of natural gas to Ukraine for the winter

apparently in the last year we've been shipping way more to europe than we ever have.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Fri Oct 14 2022 01:17 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Arelor on Thu Oct 13 2022 06:51 pm

The Russians are biding their time as our economies are due to collapse i very near future. I see that a lot of Western industry is going to shutdo as energy bills are making production non-viable. Soon we shall have to p to a war economy if we are going to survive as the only way continue our existence at the moment is to print money. The UK's central bank has alre pivoted and US bankers are expecting the Fed to do the same along with Eu central banks. We have nothing left now and are really on the brink of ec collapse. The next year or two is being to be extremely interesting.

I actually suspect the plan of the Eastern powers is to let our economies collapse under their own weight. We don't need outside powers to destroy us. are very good at it without any help.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

Zelinsky said the other day that Putin will probably more games regarding the pipeline. Putin will be turning it on and off like a little child blaming
his brother for playing with the hose.


---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

On 10/12/22 21:56, Nightfox wrote:

Not only did later versions of Windows include Internet Explorer,
Microsoft claimed it was integrated into Windows in such a way that
it would be difficult to remove it. That was back when (I think)
Microsoft was using sneaky tactics to try to corner the market.
Microsoft also made IE behave a bit differently (in a non-standard
way) than other web browsers, so by the time IE gained a lot of
marketshare, some web sites pretty much worked only with IE.

To be fair, the "browser standards" were pretty much crap at the time,
IE and NN were both pushing their own solutions. Netscape's ILayers
models sucked hardcore, IE's api was better, then the W3C came up with
yet another standard that was different than both, but closer to IE's implementation. IE5 had theirs mostly implemented at launch and NN took
the better part of a year to catch up, and broke in a lot of ways... IE
broke the older API for manipulating select lists in 5.0.0 (burned on
Windows 2000, Office 2000 and Windows ME discs), man was that a
clusterf*ck to deal with.

When IE6 came out, it was just that far ahead in terms of standards and advanced features... was a couple years before Firefox/NN had
XmlHttpRequest to catch up. IIRC it was close to 2006 before it was in significant use... It was around IE8 (2010?) that IE became much more of
a joke, and not long after Chrome passed them both.

I was working with a company at the time (1999-2001), where I had to
support back to NN 4.04 for one of our biggest clients/users as well as
new browsers (IE5/6)... that was a total mess... Creating in-browser
charts and stack diagrams that worked across 3 different browser implementations. I'm more than happy to deal with the handful of quirks
these days. NN 4.x was such hot garbage to work with.
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
---
￭ Synchronet ￭ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

On 10/12/22 21:57, Nightfox wrote:

I remember a version of Netscape you could pay for. But I also
remember Netscape being freely available for download on their
web site. That's what I used.. I didn't use Mosaic.

IIRC, it was free for personal download/use but distribution (ISP)
required licensing as did business use... they also relied heavily on
their server software. MS including both really cut into their business
on both ends. Windows non-server versions limited to 10 connections
with IIS included in Server versions kind of sealed the deal.

Classic ASP being slightly better in a lot of ways didn't help... though
the fact that most extensions (ASP COM Components) in the space being commercial (and costly) also pushed a lot of PHP adoption at the same time.

I'm frankly surprised that the stupid security mistakes from MS, such as outlook and outlook express rendering emails in unrestricted/local mode, didn't crush MS in litigation in the early 2000's from all the virus
payloads.
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
---
￭ Synchronet ￭ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

On 10/12/22 22:30, MRO wrote:

standards back then weren't really strictly followed.

The 4.x browsers both Netscape and IE didn't strictly follow standards.
W3C took nearly 4 years to get the DOM together with IE5 being slightly
ahead of NN5 by the time they came out. They both did different implementations that they independently proposed respectively.

The W3C DOM was different from both.
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
---
￭ Synchronet ￭ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

On 10/13/22 09:03, Nightfox wrote:

That was Microsoft's philosophy of "embrace, extend, extinguish".
Their Java and IE were a couple of examples.

Their Java issue was mostly around adding in the box COM support, they
could have done the same via JNI, but it would not have worked as well.

IE was just a different tact than NN, but just as valid. Adding COM
into the browser lead to many other issues, especially around email
rendering. Of course browser plugins were a problem all the way around.
Flash was particularly bad.
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
---
￭ Synchronet ￭ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Tue Oct 11 2022 09:44 pm

I have met people who have taken the threat of China quite seriously. Chinese influence is strong in Australia, as is Chinese migration so we see it more keenly. Chinese leasing the a Darwin Port, buying up land and properties here at a great degree. Also, Australia is geographically closer, quite tied to China through trade. Asia is on our doorstop, and we're more likely to be close to any Asian conflict than the UK is. Though the people who are concerned are still a minority for now.

watch out they're gonna buy up all your housing. it's happening in
canada and they're trying it in the usa. ---

It's happening in Australia too. Some will be pedantic and argue they're not buying it all, but they are an influence in the market, more than they should be.

Any government which allows foriegn nationals to buy residential properties and outbid and outcompete locals is acting traitourously to its people.

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

Andeddu wrote to Boraxman <=-

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Tue Oct 11 2022 09:44 pm

I have met people who have taken the threat of China quite seriously. Chinese influence is strong in Australia, as is Chinese migration so we see it more keenly. Chinese leasing the a Darwin Port, buying up land and properties here at a great degree. Also, Australia is geographically closer, quite tied to China through trade. Asia is on our doorstop, and we're more likely to be close to any Asian conflict than the UK is. Though the people who are concerned are still a minority for now.

No one in the UK is mentioning anything in relation to China from what
I can see. I haven't heard a single person speak about them at all as everything appears to be focused on Russia and their alleged
ineptitude. People act like this is just a joke however everyone is
paying 4x more for their energy bills and the banks are about to
collapse, haha. I don't get it, I reckon a lot of people are going to suffer a kind of reality check soon when our comfortable way of life
goes down the shitter.

It's quite surreal isn't it? There is serious talk of a possibility of this escalating to a point where nuclear weapons could be used, the possibility of a nuclear exchange, and crickets... Biden mentions it as if it is just a passing fact, that someone else will deal with.

China makes noises against Australia, threatens us, and we don't act at all. Just keep hitching ourselves to their wagon, not doing anything about Chinese subversion in Australia, spying and control.

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to MRO on Sat Oct 15 2022 10:12 pm

It's happening in Australia too. Some will be pedantic and argue they're not buying it all, but they are an influence in the market, more than they should be.

Any government which allows foriegn nationals to buy residential properties and outbid and outcompete locals is acting traitourously to its people.

from what i've seen in the news they are trying it with large buildings over here in the usa. In my current city they bought a mall and didn't maintain it, so the city is taking it away from them
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Sat Oct 15 2022 10:15 pm

It's quite surreal isn't it? There is serious talk of a possibility of this escalating to a point where nuclear weapons could be used, the possibility of a nuclear exchange, and crickets... Biden mentions it as if it is just a passing fact, that someone else will deal with.

that shows that the media has learned how to control people.
they learned a lot during this covid shit.
they had people killing their own family members for various reasons, had people at eachother's throats over masks and toilet paper.

now we have a real threat and it's of least importance.
we have scarlett johansson talking about fake orgasams and dumb shit biden says as our headlines.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Hello MRO!

** On Saturday 15.10.22 - 19:20, MRO wrote to Boraxman:

now we have a real threat and it's of least importance. we
have scarlett johansson talking about fake orgasams and
dumb shit biden says as our headlines. -+-

don't read it or turn it off.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Hello MRO!

** On Thursday 06.10.22 - 05:40, MRO wrote to Ogg:

Eg. https://susepaste.org/27402896

Reading them one by one at the aforementioned news sources
would be a lumbering process.

i'm sure there's something like fark but for regular news.
or you can use .rss to generate a list.

Never heard of fark. Tried fark.com. Don't like it. Full of
ads, and a bit unresponsive as it gets busy serving ads and
that wastes mobile data.

Yes.. /rss or /feed/rss seems to work with the news sites (like
the main https://www.kyivpost.com/feed and https://censor.net/
en/feed) that UKRNEWS uses most of the time. But visiting each
one separately takes time, and each display wastes screen
space. An rss feed in the browser only shows my 5 headlines at
a time. Whereas UKRNEWS show me over 20. PLUS.. after I pull in
UKRNEWS there is also the advantage of having those headlines +
the excerpt stored locally so that I search for particular key
words like "baltic" and just get THOSE headlines.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Ogg to MRO on Sun Oct 23 2022 09:21 am

Hello MRO!

** On Thursday 06.10.22 - 05:40, MRO wrote to Ogg:

Eg. https://susepaste.org/27402896

Reading them one by one at the aforementioned news sources
would be a lumbering process.

i'm sure there's something like fark but for regular news.
or you can use .rss to generate a list.

Never heard of fark. Tried fark.com. Don't like it. Full of
ads, and a bit unresponsive as it gets busy serving ads and
that wastes mobile data.

Yes.. /rss or /feed/rss seems to work with the news sites (like
the main https://www.kyivpost.com/feed and https://censor.net/
en/feed) that UKRNEWS uses most of the time. But visiting each
one separately takes time, and each display wastes screen
space. An rss feed in the browser only shows my 5 headlines at
a time. Whereas UKRNEWS show me over 20. PLUS.. after I pull in
UKRNEWS there is also the advantage of having those headlines +
the excerpt stored locally so that I search for particular key
words like "baltic" and just get THOSE headlines.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

I personally prefer to use a dedicated RSS program instead of relying on a web browser
RS system. Just an idea for consideration.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Tracker1 wrote to Nightfox <=-

quirks these days. NN 4.x was such hot garbage to work with.

I'm running SeaMonkey on the BBS now, feels akin to Netscape Communicator
4.x bit with a modern rendering engine.


... Have you ever seen anything like this place?
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Ogg to MRO on Sun Oct 23 2022 09:21 am

Hello MRO!

** On Thursday 06.10.22 - 05:40, MRO wrote to Ogg:

Eg. https://susepaste.org/27402896

Reading them one by one at the aforementioned news sources
would be a lumbering process.

i'm sure there's something like fark but for regular news.
or you can use .rss to generate a list.

Never heard of fark. Tried fark.com. Don't like it. Full of
ads, and a bit unresponsive as it gets busy serving ads and
that wastes mobile data.

you never heard of fark? wow.

i see some ads, but nothing bad. most of the money fark generates goes to operating costs and legal fund.

you should go into your phone and change the dns servers to a no ad version. ---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Boraxman on Thu Oct 13 2022 06:40 pm

I have met people who have taken the threat of China quite seriously. Chinese influence is strong in Australia, as is Chinese migration so we see it more keenly. Chinese leasing the a Darwin Port, buying up land
and properties here at a great degree. Also, Australia is
geographically closer, quite tied to China through trade. Asia is on
our doorstop, and we're more likely to be close to any Asian conflict
than the UK is. Though the people who are concerned are still a
minority for now.

The US better not fuck with those people. We'll get out asses kicked!

|07 HusTler

---
■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: HusTler to Andeddu on Thu Oct 27 2022 10:47 pm

than the UK is. Though the people who are concerned are still a minority for now.

The US better not fuck with those people. We'll get out asses kicked!

well we are known as warmongers so we have that going for us.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: HusTler to Andeddu on Thu Oct 27 2022 10:47 pm

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Andeddu to Boraxman on Thu Oct 13 2022 06:40 pm

I have met people who have taken the threat of China quite seriously. Chinese influence is strong in Australia, as is Chinese migration so we see it more keenly. Chinese leasing the a Darwin Port, buying up land and properties here at a great degree. Also, Australia is geographically closer, quite tied to China through trade. Asia is on our doorstop, and we're more likely to be close to any Asian conflict than the UK is. Though the people who are concerned are still a minority for now.

The US better not fuck with those people. We'll get out asses kicked!

|07 HusTler

China may be considering taking back land they lost to Russia in the 1860's

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

than the UK is. Though the people who are concerned are still a minority for now.

The US better not fuck with those people. We'll get out asses kicked!

well we are known as warmongers so we have that going for us.

And yet rouding up their own people and putting them in re-education work camps, and killing the ones that won't go or don't pass re-education,
doesn't get China quite the same bad rap. Interesting how that works.


* SLMR 2.1a * No woman has ever shot a man while he's doing the dishes.

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

China may be considering taking back land they lost to Russia in the 1860's

That could be interesting.


* SLMR 2.1a * Lawyers or Toxic Waste Dumps...hmmm, tough choice

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Russia's Endgame
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sat Oct 29 2022 09:46 am

than the UK is. Though the people who are concerned are still a minority for now.

The US better not fuck with those people. We'll get out asses kicked!

well we are known as warmongers so we have that going for us.

And yet rouding up their own people and putting them in re-education work camps, and killing the ones that won't go or don't pass re-education, doesn't get China quite the same bad rap. Interesting how that works.

look what they did with black people during covid.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

And yet rouding up their own people and putting them in re-education work camps, and killing the ones that won't go or don't pass re-education, doesn't get China quite the same bad rap. Interesting how that works.

look what they did with black people during covid.

What did China do with them?


* SLMR 2.1a * They went that-a-way --->

---
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: China's Endgame
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Oct 30 2022 11:38 am

And yet rouding up their own people and putting them in re-education work camps, and killing the ones that won't go or don't pass re-education, doesn't get China quite the same bad rap. Interesting how that works.

look what they did with black people during covid.

What did China do with them?

https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/05/china-covid-19-discrimination-against-africans

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/02/us/politics/african-americans-china-coronavirus.html

there's a lot of migration and trade between china and africa.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Microsoft
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Tracker1 on Sat Oct 22 2022 08:57:00

Tracker1 wrote to Nightfox <=-

quirks these days. NN 4.x was such hot garbage to work with.

I'm running SeaMonkey on the BBS now, feels akin to Netscape Communicator 4.x bit with a modern rendering engine.

Yeah, it was the rendering that was the biggest issue... was writing web-ui charting and literally had to cover the entire screen when doing so, or it would send someone into a seizure with the flickering. IIRC NN4.07 was required support for the company I was at around 1999 or so, as Novel was a major client and it was their "standard" browser internally.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

quirks these days. NN 4.x was such hot garbage to work with.

I'm running SeaMonkey on the BBS now, feels akin to Netscape Communic 4.x bit with a modern rendering engine.

Yeah, it was the rendering that was the biggest issue... was writing web-ui charting and literally had to cover the entire screen when doing so, or it would send someone into a seizure with the flickering. IIRC NN4.07 was required support for the company I was at around 1999 or so,
as Novel was a major client and it was their "standard" browser internally.

I think the moment when Netscape was rewritten into Java killed the adoption completely. It was NN6 if I recall. Looked fancy from UI/UX perspective as we call it today, but slow as hell and unbearable for daily use comparing to sleek IE integrated with the OS.

That was also one of the reasons for fanboyism and complaints against MSFT that there is no way browser can be so fast unless put into lower levels of the OS, which was unfair. But I believe NN fucked up implementation and choosing Java as front-end was way premature by the end of 90s.

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a copy.

Re: Re: Microsoft
By: hollowone to Tracker1 on Tue Mar 21 2023 03:52 am

I think the moment when Netscape was rewritten into Java killed the adoption completely. It was NN6 if I recall. Looked fancy from UI/UX perspective as we call it today, but slow as hell and unbearable for daily use comparing to sleek IE integrated with the OS.

i used netscape and i don't even remember that happening. i looked it up and it said it was using the gecko engine.

i think people ditched nutscrape long before 6 if that really happened.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

i used netscape and i don't even remember that happening. i looked it up and it said it was using the gecko engine.

THen perhaps memory plays tricks with me. it somehow resonates with me that six (that with aqua blue ui and big six in the background layer of the welcome web page it was starting with, I think animated as well) was implemented in java or strongly integrated with java.

Regardless, it was slow beyond acceptance on my computer at that time

MR> MR> i think people ditched
nutscrape long before 6 if that really happened.

I liked it up to 4, for sure. It was my browser on early linux and win 3.11/32. My early Internet access memories is Netscape and MIRC :>

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a copy.

Re: Re: Microsoft
By: hollowone to MRO on Thu Mar 23 2023 12:53 pm

i used netscape and i don't even remember that happening. i looked
it up and it said it was using the gecko engine.

THen perhaps memory plays tricks with me. it somehow resonates with me that six (that with aqua blue ui and big six in the background layer of the welcome web page it was starting with, I think animated as well) was implemented in java or strongly integrated with java.

I used Netscape for a long time as well, and I don't remember hearing about it being ported to Java. And with that version of Netscape, I don't recall needing to install the Java runtime to use it.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Microsoft
By: hollowone to MRO on Thu Mar 23 2023 12:53 pm

I liked it up to 4, for sure. It was my browser on early linux and win 3.11/32. My early Internet access memories is Netscape and MIRC :>

i used the mosiac browser with compuserv
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

I used Netscape for a long time as well, and I don't remember hearing about it being ported to Java. And with that version of Netscape, I
don't recall needing to install the Java runtime to use it.

Yeah.. I keep searching for some reference, but it seems that my mind's boggled. Apologies for confusion. But still I remember it was slow like hell, that sticks.

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a copy.

hollowone wrote to Nightfox <=-

I used Netscape for a long time as well, and I don't remember hearing about it being ported to Java. And with that version of Netscape, I
don't recall needing to install the Java runtime to use it.

Yeah.. I keep searching for some reference, but it seems that my mind's boggled. Apologies for confusion. But still I remember it was slow like hell, that sticks.

I don't think it was ported to Java, but Netscape devceloped Javascript
(no relation) to extend what was mostly static web sites way back when.



... IN CASE OF EMERGENCY DIAL 0118 999 881 999 119 725 3
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

Re: Re: Microsoft
By: hollowone to Tracker1 on Tue Mar 21 2023 03:52:00

But I believe NN fucked up implementation and choosing Java as
front-end was way premature by the end of 90s.

To be clear, Java isn't JavaScript. The JS UI was started with NN6 using an XML UI templating language called XUL. Riff on Ghostbusters, "There is no data. There is only XUL!"

XUL itself had a lot of really cool features, and by 2002 most PCs were more than fast enough. There was a standalone Application toolkit called XULRunner and quite few third party apps used it... Mozilla kind of left it to die though, and eventually nuked XUL support and left it to die. It was pretty much Electron a decade and a half before Electron existed.

They also added JS support for E4X (ecmascript for xml), the only other implementation was in ActionScript 3 for Flash/Flex.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

Re: Re: Microsoft
By: MRO to hollowone on Thu Mar 23 2023 00:22:30

I think the moment when Netscape was rewritten into Java killed the
adoption completely. It was NN6 if I recall. Looked fancy from UI/UX
perspective as we call it today, but slow as hell and unbearable for

i used netscape and i don't even remember that happening. i looked it up and it said it was using the gecko engine.

Gecko is Mozilla's (formerly Netscape) HTML rendering engine... XUL was the templating language used for the UI/Chrome around that (the browser's UI, not the web page). It was also JavaScript, not Java.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

Tracker1 wrote to hollowone <=-

To be clear, Java isn't JavaScript. The JS UI was started with NN6
using an XML UI templating language called XUL. Riff on Ghostbusters, "There is no data. There is only XUL!"

XUL itself had a lot of really cool features, and by 2002 most PCs were more than fast enough. There was a standalone Application toolkit
called XULRunner and quite few third party apps used it... Mozilla kind
of left it to die though, and eventually nuked XUL support and left it
to die. It was pretty much Electron a decade and a half before
Electron existed.

They also added JS support for E4X (ecmascript for xml), the only other implementation was in ActionScript 3 for Flash/Flex.

This is bringing up bad memories of HotJava, the java browser for
Solaris.




... What does this mean?
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

But I believe NN fucked up implementation and choosing Java as front-end was way premature by the end of 90s.

To be clear, Java isn't JavaScript. The JS UI was started with NN6
using an XML UI templating language called XUL. Riff on Ghostbusters, "There is no data. There is only XUL!"

I knew the bell wasn't ringing far from truth. Thanks for pointing me to the right waters. I'd not mistake java with javascript, perhaps my memory resonated with the wrong echo from the beginning.

I know XUL, it was pitched by Mozilla years after NN collapsed as something that may help Javascript conquer desktop app development. It never resonated though.

But that makes sense to me, if XUL predecessor as Wikipedia claims developed initially by Netscape Communications in around 1997 was responsible for NN6 rendering and I experienced it around 1999/2000 with my Celeron 300Mhz, no brainer it was slow as hell.

Now I even found right reference regarding this XUL thing to impact performance on slower machine at the time of NN6 release.

Mystery solved.

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a copy.

Re: Re: Microsoft
By: hollowone to Tracker1 on Sun Apr 02 2023 01:11 pm

I know XUL, it was pitched by Mozilla years after NN collapsed as something that may help Javascript conquer desktop app development. It never resonated though.

But that makes sense to me, if XUL predecessor as Wikipedia claims developed initially by Netscape Communications in around 1997 was responsible for NN6 rendering and I experienced it around 1999/2000 with my Celeron 300Mhz, no brainer it was slow as hell.

Turns out, XUL was kind of just ahead of its time. Nowadays, there's a booming business in desktop apps based on Electron, which is essentially just HTML/JS/CSS web apps with some enhanced APIs and backend resources.

It's also kind of why Apple's Webkit took off rather than Mozilla's Gecko: Where Webkit was made to be easily embeddable into other apps, Gecko & XUL kind of assumed you'd build your apps *inside* it as a framework.

So, when it turned out that the world really wanted an embedded web view component rather than to buy into a whole app framework, Mozilla kind of lost the contest there.

---
■ Synchronet ■ 0xDECAFBAD - bbs.decafbad.com

Re: Re: Microsoft
By: hollowone to Tracker1 on Sun Apr 02 2023 13:11:00

To be clear, Java isn't JavaScript. The JS UI was started with NN6
using an XML UI templating language called XUL. Riff on
Ghostbusters, "There is no data. There is only XUL!"

I knew the bell wasn't ringing far from truth. Thanks for pointing me to the right waters. I'd not mistake java with javascript, perhaps my memory resonated with the wrong echo from the beginning.

Yeah... I worked with it a bit, and enjoyed it for what it offered at the time.

Timely blog post..
https:/crisal.io/words/2023/03/30/xul-layout-is-gone.html

I know XUL, it was pitched by Mozilla years after NN collapsed as something that may help Javascript conquer desktop app development. It never resonated though.

Yeah, it was ahead of its' time, considering how popular electron is today.

But that makes sense to me, if XUL predecessor as Wikipedia claims developed initially by Netscape Communications in around 1997 was responsible for NN6 rendering and I experienced it around 1999/2000 with my Celeron 300Mhz, no brainer it was slow as hell.

Now I even found right reference regarding this XUL thing to impact performance on slower machine at the time of NN6 release

Yeah, it was very bad before 2000 or so, but on anything over 1ghz was pretty decent. On today's hardware you wouldn't even notice.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com