Re: Your opinion on 2-way radios?
By: Poindexter Fortran to dove-net.HAM_Radio on Tue Apr 17 2012 08:03 pm

Does anyone here have any insights/preferences into personal 2-way radios?

I do!

I'm getting into disaster preparedness and wanted to pack a couple of
radios into my kit.

What sorts of disasters do you want to be prepared for and what sort of communication needs do you expect?

I want to have a couple of units so I can stay in touch
when someone leaves the house.

How far would they go?

I'm in suburban, hilly territory - luckily,
I'm at the top of the hill facing the range where the other unit would be.

Just how obscured would the other unit be able to get?

I see FRS radios everywhere I look now. I understand they have some sort of discriminator circuit so you can pair two devices. Is there a way to use them to listen/talk to other people as well?

Yes. If you turn off the "discriminator" you can hear everyone using the channel. Having it on can result in not being able to receive the other radio because someone else is using the same channel, but you can't hear them because
you're using a different "code".

The FRS radios are limited to a half watt at around 465MHz. Your usable range will be around a mile if neither part is in a building and about a quarter mile
if either party is. If one party is inside a car, don't get your hopse up.

In case of a real disaster, the FRS radios will not help communicate with anyone who can't hear you yelling.

There's something called MURS that sounds like it's more powerful than FRS, and another variety that requires a HAM license?

MURS gives you the ability to use external antennas which can be used to concentrate the power in a specific area. Also, you get an extra 6dB of power.
Because the frequency is lower, it's more effectively blocked by buildings.

If you're both outside, you can reasonably expect around two to three miles. Inside a building, it'll be about the same as FRS, and inside a car is simply unlikely from a handheld.

Another thing to look at is GMRS... you need a license for them ($85 for five years) but you can run up to 50 watts. In a handheld, five watts is more likely, but that's another four and a bit dB, it's a higher frequency, so it'll
work better in buildings and cars. Five or six miles wouldn't be surprising, and if you get a base station, complete line of sight is doable. May be mildly
useful in some disasters.

There's good old CB Radio - 40 channel 5 watt handhelds are cheap. That's got the benefit of being able to talk to other people as well. I'm not that worried about eavesdropping, and being able to talk to other people is a benefit. I'm more concerned about range between the different standards.

CB is HF, so it's almost completely useless if either party is indoors. A "good" antenna starts at around fifteen feet long, so you'll never have one - so the five watts will disappear before they're even radiated. The range would
be about the same as MURS if you have a three foot antenna on them fully extended. It could be useful during disasters.

In ALL of these, you are subject to evesdropping.

As for the HAM radios, the potential range is unbounded due to local repeaters.
Some repeaters are part of networks which extended world-wide. Of the possibilities listed so far, HAM radios are most likely to be useful in the case of a real disaster, but are the hardest to get a license for and are the most expensive.

Depending on how much you want to talk with "someone" who leaves the house, you
may not be able to use a local repeater, so you'll get around the same limits as GMRS (though you have more flexability).

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Deuce wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-

I'm getting into disaster preparedness and wanted to pack a couple of
radios into my kit.

What sorts of disasters do you want to be prepared for and what sort of communication needs do you expect?

The most likely scenario where I am now is an earthquake and loss of power
for 72 hours to a week. I've got 2 kids, would want some way to keep touch
in the neighborhood if cell phones and land lines went down.

How far would they go?

A mile or two, most likely.

I'm in suburban, hilly territory - luckily,
I'm at the top of the hill facing the range where the other unit would be.

Just how obscured would the other unit be able to get?

They'd most likely be line of site with the stationary unit.

Another thing to look at is GMRS... you need a license for them ($85
for five years) but you can run up to 50 watts. In a handheld, five
watts is more likely, but that's another four and a bit dB, it's a
higher frequency, so it'll work better in buildings and cars. Five or
six miles wouldn't be surprising, and if you get a base station,
complete line of sight is doable. May be mildly useful in some
disasters.

Tempting... I have a shelf in need of more gadgets. :)

There's good old CB Radio - 40 channel 5 watt handhelds are cheap. That's got the benefit of being able to talk to other people as well. I'm not that worried about eavesdropping, and being able to talk to other people is a benefit. I'm more concerned about range between the different standards.

Thanks for the input!


poindexter fortran | pf at realitycheckBBS dot org
| http://www.realitycheckbbs.org


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Your thoughts?

In my opinion a ham radio would be your best option. Getting you license is fairly easy and you can pick up a cheap dual-band handheld with accesories for around $100. GMRS and MURS are both good options but without a nearby repeater in the case of GMRS your range is limited to about the same as MURS. My wife and I are both hams and ARES members, we have used HAM, MURS, and GMRS for comms at local bike, running, hamfest and other events.

FRS and CB are almost useless unless you are in very close range to someone else... as are the cheap combo bubble pack FRS/GMRS radios you see everywhere... and don't ever believe the 10, 20, or 30 mile range claims they show on the package.

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Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way radios?
By: GUEST to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Apr 18 2012 08:33 pm

In my opinion a ham radio would be your best option. Getting you license is fairly easy and you can pick up a cheap dual-band handheld with accesories f around $100. GMRS and MURS are both good options but without a nearby repeat

Good to know, thanks for the input. I don't know if my wife'll get her license. I'd love to get one, since my adult life seems to revolve around buying toys I couldn't afford when I was a teenager. :)

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Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way radios?
By: GUEST to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Apr 18 2012 08:33 pm

Your thoughts?

In my opinion a ham radio would be your best option. Getting
fairly easy and you can pick up a cheap dual-band handheld wi
around $100. GMRS and MURS are both good options but without
in the case of GMRS your range is limited to about the same a
and I are both hams and ARES members, we have used HAM, MURS,
comms at local bike, running, hamfest and other events.

FRS and CB are almost useless unless you are in very close r
else... as are the cheap combo bubble pack FRS/GMRS radios yo
everywhere... and don't ever believe the 10, 20, or 30 mile r
show on the package.

your guest acct has post access

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Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way radios?
By: Mro to Digitalman on Thu Apr 19 2012 12:14 pm

Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way radios?
By: GUEST to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Apr 18 2012 08:33 pm

Your thoughts?

In my opinion a ham radio would be your best option. Getting
fairly easy and you can pick up a cheap dual-band handheld wi
around $100. GMRS and MURS are both good options but without
in the case of GMRS your range is limited to about the same a
and I are both hams and ARES members, we have used HAM, MURS,
comms at local bike, running, hamfest and other events.

FRS and CB are almost useless unless you are in very close r
else... as are the cheap combo bubble pack FRS/GMRS radios yo everywhere... and don't ever believe the 10, 20, or 30 mile r
show on the package.

your guest acct has post access

*my* Guest account doesn't.

digital man

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Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way radios?
By: Digital Man to Mro on Thu Apr 19 2012 06:58 pm

your guest acct has post access

*my* Guest account doesn't.

oh sorry, i saw guest(vert) up at top.
i didnt look at the tagline.

i'm pretty sure guest wont be posting again :D *whistles*

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Does anyone here have any insights/preferences into personal 2-way radios? I'm getting into disaster preparedness and wanted to pack a couple of radios into my kit.I want to have a couple of units so I can stay in touch when someone leaves the house. I'm in suburban, hilly territory - luckily, I'm at the top of the hill facing the range where the other unit would be.

Ok here is my thoughts on this and yes it may start a flame war but so be it....

I am a ham, so is my wife. I own two repeaters one high level VHF at 7900 feet and the other at my house UHF on echolink.

Now that being said. In a disaster, when lives are at risk, or all hell breaks loose. A few cheap yes, I am going to say it, Wuxon radios, programmed for MURS or GMRS will work, and will work simplex for about 3 miles to ??? depending on what is called "line of sight"... In a way if you can see it with your eyes, chances are you can talk to it. Same goes with the bubble pack radios, they will do the claimed 30 miles, but that is one radio on the top of a mt peak, and the other on the valley floor.

Now in a emergency, I would use a radio with carrier squelch, so you do not "walk" on other peoples transmissions, and I would keep it to life or death communications only, if you are going to pirate. Chances are, the FCC is not going to come down on you if your kid is trapped under say a log and calls for help. No law prevents you from owning the radio. But in a life or death situation, you are granted any means of communication. Unless they changed it.

But I would stay away from, kids come home for dinner B.S.

That's my 2cents take it or leave it in the jar.







PhantomRage Studios BBS!

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Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way radios?
By: GUEST to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Apr 18 2012 08:33 pm

In my opinion a ham radio would be your best option. Getting you license is fairly easy and you can pick up a cheap dual-band handheld with accesories for around $100. GMRS and MURS are both good options but without a nearby repeater in the case of GMRS your range is limited to about the same as MURS. My wife and I are both hams and ARES members, we have used HAM, MURS, and GMRS for comms at local bike, running, hamfest and other events.

In the case of repeaters, GMRS repeaters are store-and-forward, not duplex.

However, the use case is a base station and mobiles... a 50W GMRS base station and some 5W handhelds would work fine.

Of course, a GMRS license costs $85 whereas a Ham license costs about $15 and some study time... there's also a wider selection of Ham products in the higher
power range (the default ham HT is 5W, GMRS is commonly .5 or 1). For the price of a pair of GMRS licenses, you could buy two Chinese tribanders.

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Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way radios?
By: Mro to Digitalman on Thu Apr 19 2012 12:14 pm

your guest acct has post access

And look how a guest posted useful information improving the discussion... perhaps he'll want to create his OWN account soon!

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Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way radios?
By: Mro to Digital Man on Fri Apr 20 2012 02:12 am

i'm pretty sure guest wont be posting again :D *whistles*

Good, we need less on-topic posts in these forums.

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Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way
By: Phantomrage to Poindexter Fortran on Fri Apr 20 2012 09:21 am

Now in a emergency, I would use a radio with carrier squelch, so you do not "walk" on other peoples transmissions,

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Carrier squelch just means that you won't hear them, so you'll think the frequency is clear... it makes it MORE likely to
walk on other peoples transmissions since you're completely unaware that they are occuring.


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Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way radios?
By: Deuce to Mro on Fri Apr 20 2012 11:13 am

Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way radios?
By: Mro to Digitalman on Thu Apr 19 2012 12:14 pm

your guest acct has post access

And look how a guest posted useful information improving the discussion... perhaps he'll want to create his OWN account soon!

it was just the sysop logged onto the guest account.

i didnt read the post, i just saw 'guest' and hit enter.
i made a pw for the guest account on that system so maybe the guy WILL use a real account.

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Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way radios?
By: Deuce to Mro on Fri Apr 20 2012 11:14 am

Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way radios?
By: Mro to Digital Man on Fri Apr 20 2012 02:12 am

i'm pretty sure guest wont be posting again :D *whistles*

Good, we need less on-topic posts in these forums.

being on topic is boring. especially when you guys go around in circles.

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Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way
By: Deuce to Phantomrage on Fri Apr 20 2012 21:08:48

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Carrier squelch just means that you won hear them, so you'll think the frequency is clear... it makes it MORE likely walk on other peoples transmissions since you're completely unaware that the are occuring.

I imagine he was talking about some kind of tone-squelch system - otherwise yeah, what you said.

echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230

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Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way
By: echicken to Deuce on Sun Apr 22 2012 00:58:15

I imagine he was talking about some kind of tone-squelch system - otherwise yeah, what you said.

Eh...I was sleepy when I wrote that. Upon further consideration I suspect he meant that using (either carrier or tone squelch) would prevent other people from talking over your own transmissions. Your using either one only increases the chances that you'll key up not knowing that somebody else is transmitting at the moment.

echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230

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Re: Re: Your opinion on 2-way
By: echicken to Deuce on Sun Apr 22 2012 01:03 pm

Eh...I was sleepy when I wrote that. Upon further consideration I suspect he meant that using (either carrier or tone squelch) would prevent other people from talking over your own transmissions. Your using either one
only increases the chances that you'll key up not knowing that somebody
else is transmitting at the moment.

Also, if someone else captures your receiver, you'll have mysterious unexpained
drop-outs instead of hearing the interferring station (and potentially solving the problem).

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