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  • Unlicensed radio owners

    From tfurrows@VERT/KK4QBN to All on Fri Feb 3 21:06:15 2017
    I have a friend who knows I'm licensed. He's what you could describe as a "prepper," with the interesting twist of being wheelchair-bound, paralyzed from the abdomen down (spinal cord crushed). Recently (because he doesn't have an amazon account and prefers not to do any transactions online) he asked me to purchase him a Baofeng, which he planned on putting in his faraday box/safe. I purchased and programmed it for him, knowing that: 1) he was not currently licensed, and; 2) he would not be using the radio.

    Obviously, anyone can purchase a ham radio online these days. It's about as easy as purchasing anything else- in fact, I can't think of any complication at all. He could have asked anyone to buy it, but he wanted some info at the same time. I spent about 30 minutes with him explaining how it works, how the repeater systems work, and some of the benefits of licensing (including the social benefits.) I encouraged him to get a license, even though I realized that he was planning on only using it in a SHTF situation.

    So, did I do the right thing? I figured this way, he'd at least get an intro and some encouragement, vs. him having some other non-ham friend purchase it for him. I programmed the weather and GMRS/FRS channels in for him as well, so he could "technically" use the radio in some legal ways (though I'm not sure on the power output for GMRS/FRS on the Baofeng, might not be strictly legal.) I thought, if he's going to buy one, I might as well help him out so he gets the best encouragement to go about it the right way.

    Another thing I thought about was the reality of a post-government situation, the type that he believes will happen and wants to prepare for. In such a situation, a license really isn't a requirement. That said, I did explain to him that a getting licensed would help him better be ready to use the technology to his benefit (and others), and that it would GREATLY improve his interactions with HAMs even in an emergency / end-of-the-world.

    So, what would you have done?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN BBS - (706)422-9538 - kk4qbn.synchro.net, Chatsworth GA US
  • From echicken@VERT/ECBBS to tfurrows on Sat Feb 4 00:06:07 2017
    Re: Unlicensed radio owners
    By: tfurrows to All on Fri Feb 03 2017 21:06:15

    Obviously, anyone can purchase a ham radio online these days. It's about as easy as purchasing anything else- in fact, I can't think of any complication at all. He could have asked anyone to buy it, but he wanted

    I owned at least one ham transceiver before I was licensed. I listened, but never keyed it. I fully intended to get my license in the near term and followed through on that.

    So, did I do the right thing? I figured this way, he'd at least get an intro and some encouragement, vs. him having some other non-ham friend

    I don't know what the letter of the law is, but I don't see any harm in owning the gear as long as you're responsible with it. IMHO it's enough that you made sure he knew not to transmit, and why not. At worst you could end up being an enabler of jamming/piracy, but ultimately the choice would be his.

    purchase it for him. I programmed the weather and GMRS/FRS channels in for him as well, so he could "technically" use the radio in some legal ways (though I'm not sure on the power output for GMRS/FRS on the Baofeng,

    Probably still not legal, even if transmissions are within the power limitations for those bands. However, if kept within those limits, probably not so bad, in terms of the spirit of the law. Then again, those radios aren't so great at suppressing harmonics, and may be causing problems on other bands unbeknownst to the operator.

    did explain to him that a getting licensed would help him better be ready to use the technology to his benefit (and others), and that it would GREATLY improve his interactions with HAMs even in an emergency / end-of-the-world.

    This is probably the best path toward encouraging him to go about it the right way. Even if licensing requirements were to go out the window, sitting on a bunch of gear you don't really know how to use or repair or make the most out of isn't great "preparedness". There's a whole know-how and DIY side of the hobby that ought to be right up the alley of someone like that. Were I concerned about being prepared for some SHTF situation, I would probably want some confidence in my ability to use the tools I set aside for that time.

    So, what would you have done?

    I would gauge how much I could count on the person to be responsible with the equipment and make my decision from there. I think I'd lean toward not buying it for him, but try to encourage the interest (with a scanner and a good antenna, or demonstrate the use of your station, etc.) It's hard to say.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230
    ■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to echicken on Sun Feb 5 07:10:00 2017
    Subject: Re: Unlicensed radio owners
    @VIA: FREEWAY
    @MSGID: <5896374C.774.dove-ham@freeway.apana.org.au>
    @REPLY: <5895613F.2849.dove-ham@bbs.electronicchicken.com>
    @TZ: 1258
    echicken wrote to tfurrows <=-

    I don't know what the letter of the law is, but I don't see any harm in owning the gear as long as you're responsible with it. IMHO it's
    enough that you made sure he knew not to transmit, and why not. At
    worst you could end up being an enabler of jamming/piracy, but
    ultimately the choice would be his.

    I don't know in the US. In Australia, it is an offence to posess in a state ready to use radio equipment for which you're not licensed to use, unless you're a licensed ham (because hams are allowed to modify gear to operate on their bands).

    Probably still not legal, even if transmissions are within the power limitations for those bands. However, if kept within those limits, probably not so bad, in terms of the spirit of the law. Then again,
    those radios aren't so great at suppressing harmonics, and may be
    causing problems on other bands unbeknownst to the operator.

    Still technically illegal, because they're not type approved for those services, though at least making some attempt to stay within the spirit of the law.

    This is probably the best path toward encouraging him to go about it
    the right way. Even if licensing requirements were to go out the
    window, sitting on a bunch of gear you don't really know how to use or repair or make the most out of isn't great "preparedness". There's a whole know-how and DIY side of the hobby that ought to be right up the alley of someone like that. Were I concerned about being prepared for some SHTF situation, I would probably want some confidence in my
    ability to use the tools I set aside for that time.

    Agree, that's a sensible option. And one that encourages knowledge, as well as doing the right thing. If the government did collapse one day and it was a free for all, ham knowledge could then be used on whatever frequencies were handy at the time. Here, knowledge of propagation in combination with available gear could be used to get the most benefit out of any communications setup, especially on HF.

    So, what would you have done?

    I would gauge how much I could count on the person to be responsible
    with the equipment and make my decision from there. I think I'd lean toward not buying it for him, but try to encourage the interest (with a scanner and a good antenna, or demonstrate the use of your station,
    etc.) It's hard to say.

    My reaction exactly. Unsure, but probably look at legal alternatives like the above and encourage he study for his ham licence.


    ... hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY?
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.
  • From KU2S@VERT/TLCBBS to tfurrows on Mon Feb 6 14:33:48 2017
    Subject: Re: Unlicensed radio owners
    @VIA: TLCBBS
    @MSGID: <5898EBBC.1857.dove-ham@tlcbbs.synchro.net>
    @REPLY: <58953717.207.dove-ham@kk4qbn.synchro.net>
    @TZ: 41a4
    I have a friend who knows I'm licensed. He's what you could describe
    as a
    "prepper," with the interesting twist of being wheelchair-bound,
    paralyzed
    from the abdomen down (spinal cord crushed). Recently (because he
    doesn't
    have an amazon account and prefers not to do any transactions online)
    he
    asked me to purchase him a Baofeng, which he planned on putting in his faraday box/safe. I purchased and programmed it for him, knowing that:
    1) he
    was not currently licensed, and; 2) he would not be using the radio.

    Obviously, anyone can purchase a ham radio online these days. It's
    about as
    easy as purchasing anything else- in fact, I can't think of any
    complication
    at all. He could have asked anyone to buy it, but he wanted some info
    at the
    same time. I spent about 30 minutes with him explaining how it works,
    how
    the repeater systems work, and some of the benefits of licensing
    (including
    the social benefits.) I encouraged him to get a license, even though I realized that he was planning on only using it in a SHTF situation.

    So, did I do the right thing? I figured this way, he'd at least get an
    intro
    and some encouragement, vs. him having some other non-ham friend
    purchase it
    for him. I programmed the weather and GMRS/FRS channels in for him as
    well,
    so he could "technically" use the radio in some legal ways (though I'm
    not
    sure on the power output for GMRS/FRS on the Baofeng, might not be
    strictly
    legal.) I thought, if he's going to buy one, I might as well help him
    out so
    he gets the best encouragement to go about it the right way.

    Another thing I thought about was the reality of a post-government situation, the type that he believes will happen and wants to prepare
    for.
    In such a situation, a license really isn't a requirement. That said,
    I did
    explain to him that a getting licensed would help him better be ready
    to use
    the technology to his benefit (and others), and that it would GREATLY improve his interactions with HAMs even in an emergency / end-of-the-
    world.

    So, what would you have done?

    ---

    I would not have purchased the radio for him. I'd have offered to do so
    once he had become licensed. In the meantime, he could have borrowed one
    of my scanners and monitored.

    To purchase the radio for him is NOT a violation. However, to
    communicate with him via the radio knowing that he is unlicensed IS a violation, and one for which you could lose your license...

    73 de KU2S

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Lost Chord BBS, Cheyenne, WY - tlcbbs.synchro.net:6080
  • From ccrash@VERT/HZBBS to Vk3jed on Fri Mar 17 12:18:57 2017
    Subject: Re: Unlicensed radio owners
    @VIA: HZBBS
    @MSGID: <58CC36A1.1910.dove-ham@horizonbbs.net>
    @REPLY: <5896374C.774.dove-ham@freeway.apana.org.au>
    @TZ: c1e0
    Re: Re: Unlicensed radio owners
    By: Vk3jed to echicken on Sun Feb 05 2017 07:10 am

    In the US this is perfectly legal. Here, we encourage people to buy the gear as they will make a commitment to become licensed. Listening in can be beneficial to someone getting their ticket and help them with the mic fright of that first transmission.

    As far as modding the radio, that poses a whole other issue.

    I don't see a problem with the preppers buying the radios, they are planning to use them only when 'the end of the world' comes. These are a unique type (when working at Yaesu I went to a couple of prepper shows and setup a booth, you'd be suprised at who and what you meet there).

    I haven't met any preppers yet that were illegally using their radios, most of them pack them away 'till that rainy day they are waiting for (or zombie apocalypse).

    Best Regards & 73,

    Chris W. / N0CSW

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Horizon BBS - telnet/http://bbs.horizonbbs.net
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to ccrash on Sat Mar 18 09:52:00 2017
    Subject: Re: Unlicensed radio owners
    @VIA: FREEWAY
    @MSGID: <58CC77E9.903.dove-ham@freeway.apana.org.au>
    @REPLY: <58CC36A1.1910.dove-ham@horizonbbs.net>
    @TZ: 1258
    ccrash wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    In the US this is perfectly legal. Here, we encourage people to buy the gear as they will make a commitment to become licensed. Listening in
    can be beneficial to someone getting their ticket and help them with
    the mic fright of that first transmission.

    In Australia, it's potentially problematic, because the law here doesn't allow you to possess a radio for which you are not licensed to use and have it in a state ready to transmit. With a base/mobile radio, you probably could have the radio connected to an antenna with the mic disconnected. HTs are a bit trickier to handle. That said, if someone had a visit from the RIs and showed proof they were studying for their ham ticket, I suspect they'd be told to disconnect the radio and put it away till they passed, at worst case.

    As far as modding the radio, that poses a whole other issue.

    That's a can of worms in many places. Here, the authorities can't even agree within themselves as to the legality of modded radios in possession by licensed hams. Some say they're illegal, others say they're only illegal if actually used to transmit out of band.

    I don't see a problem with the preppers buying the radios, they are planning to use them only when 'the end of the world' comes. These are
    a unique type (when working at Yaesu I went to a couple of prepper
    shows and setup a booth, you'd be suprised at who and what you meet there).

    I haven't met any preppers yet that were illegally using their radios, most of them pack them away 'till that rainy day they are waiting for
    (or zombie apocalypse).

    Yeah, I don't have a problem with those who aren't using their radios illegally. :)


    ... 66 percent of Americans can't do basic math.... that's almost half!
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.