I have my dad's old Microsoft yellowed intellimouse, recovered from my mom's junk drawer. It's a sunny day, and I'm going to experiment with hydrogen peroxide and baking soda to see if I can bleach it out.

If I do, I might have to pull out my 30 year-old Model M keyboard and go
retro for a while.

I just realized that my new computer is the first one I've had without PS/2 ports! Luckily I have a USB to PS/2 adapter, somewhere.


... Remove ambiguities and convert to specifics
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Re: Bleach Time!
By: poindexter FORTRAN to All on Sat Mar 06 2021 09:28 am

I have my dad's old Microsoft yellowed intellimouse, recovered from my mom's junk drawer. It's a sunny day, and I'm going to experiment with hydrogen peroxide and baking soda to see if I can bleach it out.

I remember when those old Microsoft mice seemed like the thing to have. And I remember seeing things like the Microsoft IntelliMouse software the first time with things like pointer tracking etc. and thinking it was pretty cool.

If I do, I might have to pull out my 30 year-old Model M keyboard and go retro for a while.

My dad likes those, and he uses one. I always thought they're too noisy though.. I don't like to be able to hear someone typing on their keyboard so loudly all the time though.

Nightfox

Re: Bleach Time!
By: poindexter FORTRAN to All on Sat Mar 06 2021 09:28 am

I have my dad's old Microsoft yellowed intellimouse, recovered from my mom's junk drawer. It's a sunny day, and I'm going to experiment with hydrogen peroxide and baking soda to see if I can bleach it out.

If I do, I might have to pull out my 30 year-old Model M keyboard and go retro for a while.

I just realized that my new computer is the first one I've had without PS/2 ports! Luckily I have a USB to PS/2 adapter, somewhere.

... Remove ambiguities and convert to specifics

the plastic has aged. wont work. spraypaint it
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

I have my dad's old Microsoft yellowed intellimouse, recovered from my mom's junk drawer. It's a sunny day, and I'm going to experiment with hydrogen peroxide and baking soda to see if I can bleach it out.

no idea about hydrogen peroxide but 8bit guy on youtube had great results
with retrobrite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZYbchvSUDY

I've seen others use it and similar products on youtube videos. Worth a
search for restoring retro computing equipment as I have seen videos like
that several times

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: hal to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Mar 07 2021 02:38 pm

I have my dad's old Microsoft yellowed intellimouse, recovered from my mom's junk drawer. It's a sunny day, and I'm going to experiment with hydrogen peroxide and baking soda to see if I can bleach it out.

no idea about hydrogen peroxide but 8bit guy on youtube had great results with retrobrite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZYbchvSUDY

I've seen others use it and similar products on youtube videos. Worth a search for restoring retro computing equipment as I have seen videos like that several times

this is interesting. apparently the plastic is so porous it's trapping something from the air that makes it a uniform yellow. the things with hydrogen peroxide are getting in there and releasing the stains.

i wonder what that yellow shit is. it's not human dirt. contaminants in our air. in my uncle's case it would be cig smoke.

i've had old stuff like that but it didnt get that nasty yellow. i'm also not a smoker.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

junk drawer. It's a sunny day, and I'm going to experiment with hydroge peroxide and baking soda to see if I can bleach it out.

the plastic has aged. wont work. spraypaint it

you're talking about something people do on youtube all the time.. with great success..

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi

On 07 Mar 2021, hal said the following...

this message is confusing because it has no origin line. i thought it was
local for a second.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: fusion to MRO on Sun Mar 07 2021 06:53 pm

junk drawer. It's a sunny day, and I'm going to experiment with hydroge peroxide and baking soda to see if I can bleach it out.

the plastic has aged. wont work. spraypaint it

you're talking about something people do on youtube all the time.. with great success..

yeah it's not yellow because it's aged, it's discolored from something else. i'd like to know what that something else is.


i've had old stuff like that and it didnt yellow. i wonder if this is from smokers.


arent you that guy who ran the os2 synchronet bbs?
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

arent you that guy who ran the os2 synchronet bbs?

ya. though now it's neither sync nor os/2. bit of a shame not to be repping
big blue, but the missing modern features list (if things like long filename support can be called modern) in original sync kinda got old.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: MRO to fusion on Sun Mar 07 2021 06:25 pm

yeah it's not yellow because it's aged, it's discolored from something else. i'd like to know what that something else is.

i've had old stuff like that and it didnt yellow. i wonder if this is from smokers.

I've heard some white plastics can turn yellow by being exposed to sunlight too much.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: fusion to MRO on Sun Mar 07 2021 11:21 pm

arent you that guy who ran the os2 synchronet bbs?

ya. though now it's neither sync nor os/2. bit of a shame not to be repping big blue, but the missing modern features list (if things like long filename support can be called modern) in original sync kinda got old.

so did you sustain a head injury or something that made you want to use mystic? :D :D :D
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Mar 07 2021 09:39 pm

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: MRO to fusion on Sun Mar 07 2021 06:25 pm

yeah it's not yellow because it's aged, it's discolored from something else. i'd like to know what that something else is.

i've had old stuff like that and it didnt yellow. i wonder if this is from smokers.

I've heard some white plastics can turn yellow by being exposed to sunlight too much.

now the internet says that uv light combines with the flame retardant bromine to make plastic yellow. and it has a pic of a super nintendo and now i remember my snes getting yellow on the bottom after i let my kid use it.

howtogeek also says using h2o2 doesnt stop it from happening again and might make the plastic brittle.

whats weird is they say to use uv light to help the process.

i think in today's 3d printer age people would be better off getting new parts printed if they want something new looking.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

so did you sustain a head injury or something that made you want to use mystic? :D :D :D

my old apartment had a long flight of stairs... XD

no special reason really though, other than friends using it and being
curious.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi

I have my dad's old Microsoft yellowed intellimouse, recovered from my mom's

>junk drawer. It's a sunny day, and I'm going to experiment with hydrogen
>peroxide and baking soda to see if I can bleach it out.

If I do, I might have to pull out my 30 year-old Model M keyboard and go

>retro for a while.

I just realized that my new computer is the first one I've had without PS/2

>ports! Luckily I have a USB to PS/2 adapter, somewhere.


That reminds me.. The keyboard I'm typing this on, which I've used daily since it was almost new, has a 'birthday' coming up. The manufacture date is on the back.. June 6th, 1991. At one point I changed the Large DIN connector on it over to a PS2, and since then I've used it with various PS2 computers then later with an adapter to USB.

On another subject..

Maybe this is the place to ask this question. The computer I use most of the time is running Vista but I'm running into more and more web sites that won't run on the newest Browser that Vista supports (A Mozilla variation from about 2010). Would it be possible to run a Windows 7 Virtual Machine on Vista to
have occasional access to a newer browser or is a full reinstall of something newer my only option?

---
■ SLMR Rob ■ .. After we pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is NOT our friend!
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Rob Mccart wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

Maybe this is the place to ask this question. The computer I use most
of the time is running Vista but I'm running into more and more web
sites that won't run on the newest Browser that Vista supports (A
Mozilla variation from about 2010). Would it be possible to run a
Windows 7 Virtual Machine on Vista to have occasional access to a newer browser or is a full reinstall of something newer my only option?

You'd be better off doing at least an upgrade, if you could, to Windows 10. How much memory do you have in your computer, and how big is your disk?

A cheap, external USB drive could make the process much easier; Windows 10
has the same backup program that 7 does, and could probably read a Vista backup too.


... Abandon desire
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Re: Bleach Time!
By: Rob Mccart to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Mon Mar 08 2021 12:16 am

Maybe this is the place to ask this question. The computer I use most of the time is running Vista but I'm running into more and more web sites that won' run on the newest Browser that Vista supports (A Mozilla variation from abou 2010). Would it be possible to run a Windows 7 Virtual Machine on Vista to have occasional access to a newer browser or is a full reinstall of somethin newer my only option?

It should be doable as long as you have enough RAM and CPU cycles to spare.

Another alternative if it is just for a couple of sites, is to get a copy of Knoppix. Knoppix is a operating system that you can boot from a DVD and executes without touching anything in your hard drive. Recent versions come with Chromium and Mozilla Firefox. You just put the DVD in the tray and reboot the computer, et voila, the computer will boot to an operating system that will completely disappear once you turn the computer off.

A lot of people use this sort of solution for their online banking. Since you are booting into a fresh operating system each time you boot Knoppix, it is harder to get persistent malware infections.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Maybe this is the place to ask this question. The computer I use most
of the time is running Vista
Would it be possible to run a Windows 7 Virtual Machine on Vista

You'd be better off doing at least an upgrade, if you could, to Windows 10.

>How much memory do you have in your computer, and how big is your disk?

I'm not even sure this machine would run Windows 7 (but possibly).
Single core 2.0 Ghz Celeron with the maximum RAM the motherboard supports, which is only 2 gig.

If worse comes to worse I can copy everything I use over to another Laptop I have that's already running Windows 7 but Vista runs a lot better with old software than newer Windows versions do. Saves trying to get things running properly through DOS Box..
---
■ SLMR Rob ■ I feel much better since I gave up hope...
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Would it be possible to run a Windows 7 Virtual Machine on Vista

It should be doable as long as you have enough RAM and CPU cycles to spare.

Good question.

Another alternative if it is just for a couple of sites, is to get a copy of

>Knoppix. Knoppix is a operating system that you can boot from a DVD

I'll keep that in mind. I was sort of hoping for something that I could simply start up without having to reboot. So far it's not a crippling problem and I have other computers and a Cell Phone and Tablet that usually work on the web sites that the old browsers can't manage.. And the phone is my internet source so it is there and on anyways.

I was just trying to squeeze a little more life out of some old hardware. B) ---
■ SLMR Rob ■ No, you CAN'T dial 911.. Can't you see I'm downloading?
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

I'm not even sure this machine would run Windows 7 (but possibly).
Single core 2.0 Ghz Celeron with the maximum RAM the motherboard
supports, which is only 2 gig.

i recently set up (and quickly abandoned) a Pentium 4 3.2GHz machine with Windows 7.. 4GB of ram. loading a web browser brought me back to my Windows
95 days.. chug chug chug.

i will say that it seemed to run bbs/dos software o.k. though some things
used full cpu that i didn't expect, and not having actual additional cores meant multitasking definitely felt unpleasant. (i.e. additional nodes would likely affect each other)

i replaced it with a Lenovo E31 (still Windows 7.. 32-bit) and it seems to be the sweet spot. and fairly inexpensive. hopefully i can baby it until i'm long gone.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi

Rob Mccart wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

I'm not even sure this machine would run Windows 7 (but possibly).
Single core 2.0 Ghz Celeron with the maximum RAM the motherboard
supports, which is only 2 gig.

I've run 7 on a similar system. It ran, but not very quickly. 32-bit Windows 10 might have a better time, surprisingly.




... Change ambiguities to specifics
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

I'm not even sure this machine would run Windows 7 (but possibly).
Single core 2.0 Ghz Celeron with the maximum RAM the motherboard
supports, which is only 2 gig.

i recently set up (and quickly abandoned) a Pentium 4 3.2GHz machine with

>Windows 7.. 4GB of ram. loading a web browser brought me back to my Windows
>95 days.. chug chug chug.

Hard to believe you got a P4 Motherboard that supports 4GB of ram.
My last Desktop was a 3.0Ghz P4 with 512 Meg of Ram in it but I had to pretty much give up on it due to limited options for things like Browsers.

i replaced it with a Lenovo E31 (still Windows 7.. 32-bit) and it seems to be

>the sweet spot. and fairly inexpensive. hopefully i can baby it until i'm lon
>gone.

I'm guessing they are still using that name on a greatly upgarded system. (?)
I tried looking that up and found one listed (discontinued) but it was running an I7 5th Gen Core which is probably not what yours is..

I don't so much mind the limitations of my Laptop mentioned above, other than the problem with it not allowing Software updates anymore.
Unfortunately Vista software updates are the same as Win XP, not Win 7..
I do have a low end HP Dual Core Win7 Laptop with 4GB of Ram, upgradable to 8GB, which I will probably have to change over to for my main machine before too long..

---
■ SLMR Rob ■ CAUTION: Try this on somebody else's computer first
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Hard to believe you got a P4 Motherboard that supports 4GB of ram.

yeah.. probably the tail end of that generation i'd guess

system. (?) I tried looking that up and found one listed (discontinued) but it was running an I7 5th Gen Core which is probably not what yours is..

this one is an i5-3550. which according to google is from 2012. the one i got is still available on eBay for $99, but i had to get a hard drive for it (it's pretty common for lenovos to be from bigger companies so they destroy the
hard drives and send the rest to refurbishers).

I don't so much mind the limitations of my Laptop mentioned above, other than the problem with it not allowing Software updates anymore. Unfortunately Vista software updates are the same as Win XP, not Win 7..

sounds like you're a bit like me.. i clung to OS/2, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows 7, and probably will Windows 10 too..

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi

I don't so much mind the limitations of my Laptop mentioned above, other than the problem with it not allowing Software updates anymore. Unfortunately Vista software updates are the same as Win XP, not Win 7..

sounds like you're a bit like me.. i clung to OS/2, Windows 2000, Windows XP,

>Windows 7, and probably will Windows 10 too..

My jumps were fewer. Apple II to IBM DOS3 to Win95 to Win 98 then Windows 7. The Vista system was a Laptop someone was tossing that I repaired and sort of liked because most things ran on it and it's much more friendly with OLD software than Windows 7 is.

Up until about 2015 I was still running a system, updated as much as humanly possible, running Windows 98. That was always my favourite OS where it did a lot more than older versions but the user still had more direct control over it. I did a lot of manually editing the Registry and tricking it into doing things it was never designed to do. But I got into computers when Windows 3
was still a distant dream and I had to write my own Operating Systems and a
lot of my own programs and games so I guess I liked having the option of hopping into DOS in the background to do some things..

I finally had to break down and get a Windows 7 Laptop to do some things
that a lack of updates finally made impossible.
I don't mind Windows 7 all that much but it always seems every new release
is more protective of itself allowing the user less and less control.
I've used Windows 10 a little at other people's places but I'd have to start over again to figure out how to work around the way Windows intended.. B)
---
■ SLMR Rob ■ Laughing stock: cattle with a sense of humor
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Up until about 2015 I was still running a system, updated as much as humanly possible, running Windows 98. That was always my favourite OS where it did a lot more than older versions but the user still had more direct control over it. I did a lot of manually editing the Registry and

yeah, 98 seems to be the "retro computing" favorite. all the little windows
95 promises polished up and functional.

it's a shame microsoft won't clean it up
to it's most recent state, slap a giant disclaimer on it and offer it up for $50 on Steam or something. i'd get a a copy just for kicks.. throw in in VirtualBox or something.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Rob Mccart to FUSION on Fri Mar 19 2021 12:31 am

I finally had to break down and get a Windows 7 Laptop to do some things that a lack of updates finally made impossible.
I don't mind Windows 7 all that much but it always seems every new release is more protective of itself allowing the user less and less control.
I've used Windows 10 a little at other people's places but I'd have to start over again to figure out how to work around the way Windows intended..

I've been using PCs for a long time (I started using IBM compatibles around the late 90s, when DOS was big and Wnidows 3 was coming around). I like having control of my PC. It seems most people these days though don't care so much about having total control; they just want to do stuff with it. Modern operating systems are made in a way to prevent people from doing stupid stuff.

I does bother me, though, when the OS tries to prevent me from running a program because it's not "authorized" by the OS or other restrictions.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: fusion to Rob Mccart on Fri Mar 19 2021 07:51 pm

yeah, 98 seems to be the "retro computing" favorite. all the little windows 95 promises polished up and functional.

Windows 98 was good, but I remember one recurring problem I had with Windows 98 was when I went to shut down the PC, Windows 98 would get stuck on the shutdown screen and not fully shut down. I think there may have been a fix for that at some point though.

Windows ME tends to get a lot of hate, but I ran ME for a little while and didn't have a problem with it.

Nightfox

*** Quoting Nightfox from a message to Rob Mccart ***

I does bother me, though, when the OS tries to prevent me from
running a program because it's not "authorized" by the OS or other restrictions.

Yup, I downloaded Syncterm 1.2a the other day and Credge (Chromium Edge) was warning me that the file was "untrustworthy" and could "harm your computer".

I was like f@*# off and let me run the damn file!

Jay

... Shout out to the people that don't know what the opposite of in is!

--- Telegard v3.09.g2-sp4/mL
* Origin: Northern Realms | 289-424-5180 | bbs.nrbbs.net (99:99/2)

On 20 Mar 2021, Nightfox said the following...

Windows 98 was when I went to shut down the PC, Windows 98 would get
stuck on the shutdown screen and not fully shut down. I think there may

you see this a little even today.. windows trying to be smart about things
like checking if programs have unsaved data, and cleaning up a bit after itself. at least now you can tell it "just die already.." hehe

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi

Up until about 2015 I was still running a system, updated as much as humanly possible, running Windows 98. That was always my favourite OS

yeah, 98 seems to be the "retro computing" favorite. all the little windows

>95 promises polished up and functional.

Yes, it was a massive improvement over Win95 and added on so many things like decent USB support and (not always from Microsoft) universal drivers for
things like up to 32 gig Flash Drives.

Another advantage was, being so 'out of date', it was virtually Virus immune since no one was aiming at it..

If it supported newer browsers I'd still be running it on my main machine.
Best I could manage was the 2011 release of Opera (Mozilla based I believe). Newer Opera versions are Chrome based, or probably I should say Chrome uses
the same browser engine if my info on that is still up to date.

---
■ SLMR Rob ■ Standards are wonderful... So many to choose from!
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Rob Mccart to FUSION on Sun Mar 21 2021 12:51 am

yeah, 98 seems to be the "retro computing" favorite. all the little windo
95 promises polished up and functional.

Yes, it was a massive improvement over Win95 and added on so many things like decent USB support and (not always from Microsoft) universal drivers for things like up to 32 gig Flash Drives.

Another advantage was, being so 'out of date', it was virtually Virus immune since no one was aiming at it..

If it supported newer browsers I'd still be running it on my main machine. Best I could manage was the 2011 release of Opera (Mozilla based I believe). Newer Opera versions are Chrome based, or probably I should say Chrome uses the same browser engine if my info on that is still up to date.

Yesterday I was listening to the Leo LaPorte radio show (he gives computer & technology advice), and there were 2 people who called in who said they still have a Windows 98 PC. One person wanted to know how best to copy their files off it, and the other said they still kept their Win98 PC for a game they like to play.

Nightfox

On 3/20/2021 1:57 PM, Warpslide wrote:

I does bother me, though, when the OS tries to prevent me from
running a program because it's not "authorized" by the OS or other
restrictions.

Yup, I downloaded Syncterm 1.2a the other day and Credge (Chromium
Edge) was warning me that the file was "untrustworthy" and could
"harm your computer".

I was like f@*# off and let me run the damn file!

That's the downside of trying to build things to be more idiot proof.
While protecting some from malicious content because it isn't popular
enough, or cleared by checks that more popular downloads see it gets
blocked.

Had this issue downloading my own SyncTERM installer from github.

I am liking the new Edge a bit more than Chrome and have switched.
Partly because I trust MS slightly more than Google at this point.
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
---
￭ Synchronet ￭ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

On 3/20/2021 9:51 PM, Rob Mccart wrote:

Up until about 2015 I was still running a system, updated as much
as humanly possible, running Windows 98. That was always my
favourite OS

yeah, 98 seems to be the "retro computing" favorite. all the little
windows 95 promises polished up and functional.

Yes, it was a massive improvement over Win95 and added on so many
things like decent USB support and (not always from Microsoft)
universal drivers for things like up to 32 gig Flash Drives.

I switched directly from OS/2 to NT4 around that time... I did think
that Windows 2000 with LiteStep Shell (I think it was called that) was
pretty great. IIRC I went to XP with SP3, and used the MCE desktop
theme. Then Win7 on release, 8 SP2 with classic shell, and now Win10.
I've run Linux desktop environments for a couple months at a time every
few years.

What's funny is that you can now run a full x86 emulator and Windows 9x
in a browser.
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
---
￭ Synchronet ￭ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

I've been using PCs for a long time (I started using IBM compatibles around t

>late 90s, when DOS was big and Wnidows 3 was coming around). I like having c
>rol of my PC. It seems most people these days though don't care so much abou
>aving total control; they just want to do stuff with it. Modern operating sy
>ms are made in a way to prevent people from doing stupid stuff.

Yes, stupid stuff usually being what makes the systems work better.. B)

I got my first computers in 1984 and 85, heavily modified Apple II's with a 'massive' 80kb (up from 48 kb) of Ram and dual ($400 ea.) floppy drives,
and moved on to IBM types with an 8088 system around 1987.
(Anyone remember paying $2000+ for a 10 meg hard drive ?) B)
(( Updated into todays dollars that would be about $4500))

I does bother me, though, when the OS tries to prevent me from running a prog

> because it's not "authorized" by the OS or other restrictions.

Yes, I don't so much mind a warming but I want the option to ignore it too..

---
■ SLMR Rob ■ Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Windows 98 was good, but I remember one recurring problem I had with Windows

>was when I went to shut down the PC, Windows 98 would get stuck on the shutdo
>screen and not fully shut down. I think there may have been a fix for that a
>ome point though.

Windows ME tends to get a lot of hate, but I ran ME for a little while and di

>t have a problem with it.

I never got into Win ME due to some issues it had with being overly contolling but you could start off with Win98 SE and replace all the important parts with the Win ME updated utilities and have the best of both worlds... and then find all the vastly improved programs written by others to make it all work even better.
---
■ SLMR Rob ■ This is abuse... arguments are down the hall
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Tracker1 wrote to Rob Mccart <=-

I switched directly from OS/2 to NT4 around that time... I did think
that Windows 2000 with LiteStep Shell (I think it was called that) was pretty great. IIRC I went to XP with SP3, and used the MCE desktop
theme. Then Win7 on release, 8 SP2 with classic shell, and now Win10. I've run Linux desktop environments for a couple months at a time every few years.

Sounds like we ran in some of the same circles. I was a Netware admin in the early '90s, and OS/2 made a great admin platform for Netware servers - lots
of console windows without drivers in low memory. DOS VDMs for apps that needed a native DOS environment.

Switched to NT4 when the internet came around, and I had a couple of
databases to manage. Really enjoyed the eye-candy of Litestep, ran it on
the BBS for some time, and ran it on old Dell boxes running Windows 2000
that needed all the RAM they could muster.

I couldn't stand the Windows 8 start menu, used classic shell to emulate a
XP environment, down to the colors and the wallpaper.

That reminds me, I think it's time for my 2-screen "Dark Bliss" wallpaper
and an XP menu again. :)



... ZIMA TASTES BETTER WHEN IT'S ILLEGAL
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Yesterday I was listening to the Leo LaPorte radio show (he gives computer &

>hnology advice), and there were 2 people who called in who said they still ha
>a Windows 98 PC. One person wanted to know how best to copy their files off
> and the other said they still kept their Win98 PC for a game they like to pl

For decades a friend of mine and I played Doom 2 and other similar games daily over the phone lines until he moved away last year. The Win98 system I was using for that is still operational but it's a while since I used it. I tend
to play other games on my Laptop when it's just myself and, as mentioned, the Win98 machine is getting a little old for a lot of online uses..

That said, when I do feel like playing the old games there are Ports that
allow you to play those old DOS games with better controls and graphics that I have installed on the newer Laptop as well.
---
■ SLMR Rob ■ A big enough gun will adjust any attitude
■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Tracker1 on Tue Mar 23 2021 08:51 am

I couldn't stand the Windows 8 start menu, used classic shell to emulate a XP environment, down to the colors and the wallpaper.

Not only that, but since Windows 8, I think the whole Windows UI has looked fairly flat and monotone since then. It's basically the same with the other major operating systems too. I don't really like that some typical UI elements don't look like what they're supposed to be anymore. The worst might be buttons that are just plain flat rectangles - Sometimes it can be hard to tell if they're buttons or just colored boxes. Another thing that bugs me is, on some Windows 10 setups I've seen, the default color for the active Windows Explorer window border is white, so it blends in with parts of the screen that have white (such as other Windows Explorer windows, web browser windows, etc.), and the Windows Explorer border will be hard (if not impossible) to see.

Nightfox

On 3/23/2021 8:51 AM, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:

Sounds like we ran in some of the same circles. I was a Netware admin
in the early '90s, and OS/2 made a great admin platform for Netware
servers - lots of console windows without drivers in low memory. DOS
VDMs for apps that needed a native DOS environment.

Switched to NT4 when the internet came around, and I had a couple of databases to manage. Really enjoyed the eye-candy of Litestep, ran
it on the BBS for some time, and ran it on old Dell boxes running
Windows 2000 that needed all the RAM they could muster.

I couldn't stand the Windows 8 start menu, used classic shell to
emulate a XP environment, down to the colors and the wallpaper.

That reminds me, I think it's time for my 2-screen "Dark Bliss"
wallpaper and an XP menu again. :)

I remember spending weeks configuring my custom litestep theme... I
think it didn't run right on XP. but used it off/on at some point and
just stopped trying. When Win7 came out, I preferred it to anything
that came before anyway (in terms of UX).

My understanding is I *could* do similar with gnome as I used to with LiteStep, just never dug into it far enough to start.
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
---
￭ Synchronet ￭ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Not only that, but since Windows 8, I think the whole Windows UI has looked fairly flat and monotone since then. It's basically the same
with the other major operating systems too. I don't really like that
some typical UI elements don't look like what they're supposed to be anymore. The worst might be buttons that are just plain flat rectangles
- Sometimes it can be hard to tell if they're buttons or just colored boxes. Another thing that bugs me is, on some Windows 10 setups I've seen, the default color for the active Windows Explorer window border
is white, so it blends in with parts of the screen that have white
(such as other Windows Explorer windows, web browser windows, etc.),
and the Windows Explorer border will be hard (if not impossible) to
see.

This design trend drives me crazy!! They call it "getting the interface
out of your way," or some other such nonsense. It's called lazy development. It's poor design. You cannot get the "interface" out of our way,
we NEED something to INTERFACE us with the SYSTEM. That is what it is for. Since we cannot communicate with and control our computers with our thoughts yet (not to the degree necessary to do work in today's world) we need those buttons to look like buttons. We need borders around those borders. We need depth and dinstinction between one application and another and between
a button and a field. It drives me crazy!!! One example I encountered in
web design. I spent 30 minutes one day looking for a field on a form
and could not find it. Why? There was no field border of any kind around
it. There was just text on the screen and not until you clicked on the non- highlighted text did a faint borde show up revealing it *might* be a field!

Our computer screens are not small phone screens and our phones cannot
do all our computers can as efficiently as our computers can. Ugh.



... At least you can always use my code as a bad example.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
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Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Elf to Nightfox on Fri Mar 26 2021 09:41 pm

Not only that, but since Windows 8, I think the whole Windows UI has
looked fairly flat and monotone since then. It's basically the same

This design trend drives me crazy!! They call it "getting the interface out of your way," or some other such nonsense. It's called lazy development. It's poor design. You cannot get the "interface" out of our way, we NEED something to INTERFACE us with the SYSTEM. That is what it is for. Since we cannot communicate with and control our computers with our thoughts yet (not to the degree necessary to do work in today's world) we need those buttons to look like buttons. We need borders around those borders. We need depth and dinstinction between one application and

Yep. We need to be able to clearly see the elements of the user interface, and I think it should look good too.

example I encountered in web design. I spent 30 minutes one day looking for a field on a form and could not find it. Why? There was no field border of any kind around it. There was just text on the screen and not until you clicked on the non- highlighted text did a faint borde show up revealing it *might* be a field!

That's fairly bad design.

Our computer screens are not small phone screens and our phones cannot
do all our computers can as efficiently as our computers can. Ugh.

I think even phone interfaces used to look better than they do - iPhone, iPod Touch, and Android from around 2007-2010 or so, I think looked better than they do today.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Mar 07 2021 09:39 pm

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: MRO to fusion on Sun Mar 07 2021 06:25 pm

yeah it's not yellow because it's aged, it's discolored from something else. i'd like to know what that something else is.

i've had old stuff like that and it didnt yellow. i wonder if this is f smokers.

I've heard some white plastics can turn yellow by being exposed to sunlight

Nightfox

Some plastics are treated with a fire retardant that causes yellowing even without exposure to UV light

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Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sat Aug 14 2021 08:47 pm

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Mar 07 2021 09:39 pm

this is from last march
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Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: MRO to Moondog on Sun Aug 15 2021 09:59 am

By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Mar 07 2021 09:39 pm

this is from last march

Yep, that's indeed what the date says.
...and?

Nightfox

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Aug 16 2021 12:42 pm

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: MRO to Moondog on Sun Aug 15 2021 09:59 am

By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Mar 07 2021 09:39 pm

this is from last march

Yep, that's indeed what the date says.
...and?

it's almost 5 and a half months ago. we've moved on from that post.
people shouldnt reply to old shit.

that's your 'and'
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Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Aug 16 2021 09:11 pm

it's almost 5 and a half months ago. we've moved on from that post.
people shouldnt reply to old shit.

that's your 'and'

Maybe they hadn't seen it yet. Not everyone reads Dove-Net every day. There are people who might not read Dove-Net for months and then check back.

I'm wondering why it bothers you so much?

Nightfox

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Aug 16 2021 08:11 pm

Maybe they hadn't seen it yet. Not everyone reads Dove-Net every day.

maybe they should update their msg pointers.

There are people who might not read Dove-Net for months and then check back.

I'm wondering why it bothers you so much?

it's good msg network etquette to update your msg pointers and not reply to posts that are many months old.

I'm wondering why it bothers you so much when i complain about it.
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Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Aug 17 2021 09:00:07

it's good msg network etquette to update your msg pointers and not reply to posts that are many months old.

Well that's definitely not true. Reply to messages that are interesting
and relevant, simple as that. God didn't come down from the heavens to
tell people Thou Shalt Not Reply to Messages A Few Months Old. You're
just making up useless etiquette rules where none exist.

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Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Ksource to MRO on Wed Aug 18 2021 03:28 am

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Aug 17 2021 09:00:07

it's good msg network etquette to update your msg pointers and not reply to posts that are many months old.

Well that's definitely not true. Reply to messages that are interesting
and relevant, simple as that. God didn't come down from the heavens to

update your msg pointers so you dont necro post.

thanks.
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Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Ksource to MRO on Wed Aug 18 2021 03:28 am

it's good msg network etquette to update your msg pointers and not
reply to posts that are many months old.

Well that's definitely not true. Reply to messages that are interesting and relevant, simple as that. God didn't come down from the heavens to tell people Thou Shalt Not Reply to Messages A Few Months Old. You're
just making up useless etiquette rules where none exist.

Yep. If someone wants to talk about a particular subject, would it be better to start up a new thread, even though it has been discussed before?

And if you're just looking for information, a forum search is often a good thing to do, as there might be an old thread that can provide some useful information.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: MRO to Ksource on Wed Aug 18 2021 08:56 am

update your msg pointers so you dont necro post.

So, if someone wants to discuss a particular subject, even if it has been discussed before, would it be better for them to start a new thread?

Nightfox

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Nightfox to Ksource on Wed Aug 18 2021 08:32 am

Yep. If someone wants to talk about a particular subject, would it be better to start up a new thread, even though it has been discussed before?

yeah start a new thread instead of digging up an old one.

christ, this is why forums lock shit.

And if you're just looking for information, a forum search is often a good thing to do, as there might be an old thread that can provide some useful information.

i'm not saying dont read old shit. but dont reply to it
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Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Aug 18 2021 08:33 am

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: MRO to Ksource on Wed Aug 18 2021 08:56 am

update your msg pointers so you dont necro post.

So, if someone wants to discuss a particular subject, even if it has been discussed before, would it be better for them to start a new thread?

Nightfox

I think it is generally good ettiquete to start a new thread rather than necro a threat that has been cold for months. Specially if there is new information regarding it.

I don't think necroing an old thread is bad as long as there is a reasonable probability that the people originally involved with it is around, though. Maybe it is just me but I don't feel assaulted by necros or anything :-)

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Arelor to Nightfox on Wed Aug 18 2021 03:47 pm

I don't think necroing an old thread is bad as long as there is a reasonable probability that the people originally involved with it is around, though. Maybe it is just me but I don't feel assaulted by necros or anything :-)

i think it really shows a flaw in the synchronet interface.
when a new user gets past the application i think it should ask them if they'd like to update their msg pointers.

almost ALL the time, when a new user replies to old msgs they are doing it by accident. these msgs are new to them, but not new and they dont realize it until later.

i've done it myself.
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Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: MRO to Arelor on Wed Aug 18 2021 09:38 pm

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Arelor to Nightfox on Wed Aug 18 2021 03:47 pm

I don't think necroing an old thread is bad as long as there is a reasonable probability that the people originally involved with it is around, though. Maybe it is just me but I don't feel assaulted by necros or anything :-)

i think it really shows a flaw in the synchronet interface.
when a new user gets past the application i think it should ask them if they'd like to update their msg pointers.

Each sysop has the option to set new users' message pointers however they like via SCFG->System->New User Values->Days of New Messages. I think the default value is 30 (days).

almost ALL the time, when a new user replies to old msgs they are doing it by accident. these msgs are new to them, but not new and they dont realize it until later.

i've done it myself.

The BBS could warn or disallow responses to messages older than some specified age too. There's a lot of options for the enterprising sysop to pursue.
--
digital man

Sling Blade quote #16:
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Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: MRO to Arelor on Wed Aug 18 2021 09:38 pm

Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Arelor to Nightfox on Wed Aug 18 2021 03:47 pm

I don't think necroing an old thread is bad as long as there is a reasona probability that the people originally involved with it is around, though Maybe it is just me but I don't feel assaulted by necros or anything :-)

i think it really shows a flaw in the synchronet interface.
when a new user gets past the application i think it should ask them if they like to update their msg pointers.

almost ALL the time, when a new user replies to old msgs they are doing it b accident. these msgs are new to them, but not new and they dont realize it until later.

i've done it myself.

Actually, this is somethign I have actually thought myself. Synchronet would benefit if there was an option for having the message pointers automatically set upon the registration of a new user. Right now, a new user that registers ends up having thousands of unread messages to check, onyl a small fraction of which are current enough to be worth checking.


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Digital Man to MRO on Wed Aug 18 2021 08:10 pm

Each sysop has the option to set new users' message pointers however they li via SCFG->System->New User Values->Days of New Messages. I think the default value is 30 (days).

That is awesome and we love you for that!

How come I have not realized such thing was so :-(

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Digital Man to MRO on Wed Aug 18 2021 08:10 pm

i think it really shows a flaw in the synchronet interface.
when a new user gets past the application i think it should ask them if they'd like to update their msg pointers.

Each sysop has the option to set new users' message pointers however they like via SCFG->System->New User Values->Days of New Messages. I think the default value is 30 (days).

almost ALL the time, when a new user replies to old msgs they are doing

oh that's cool, i didnt know that. i just made my script that asks them.
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Re: Re: Bleach Time!
By: Arelor to MRO on Thu Aug 19 2021 07:13 am

Actually, this is somethign I have actually thought myself. Synchronet would benefit if there was an option for having the message pointers automatically set upon the registration of a new user. Right now, a new user that registers ends up having thousands of unread messages to check, onyl a small fraction of which are current enough to be worth checking.

yeah and a lot of bbses have several msg nets, so the average new user would get overload and just [q]uit.
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