What I find especially strange is how people often put all the blame on other
people for top-posting when I think the software is partially to blame.

Since I started using the internet, something that I've thought was interesting is peoples' attitudes toward bottom-posting vs. top-posting. On BBSs, it has always been customary to bottom-post, and that is also encouraged by the fact that BBS email software bottom-posts by default.
This was also carried over to Usenet to some extent, but other internet messaging software (email, in particular) is usually made to top-post by default. Thus, when people reply to email, they usually top-post in their replies. And when such people go posting on Usenet (and sometimes on BBSs now), they top-post there, and flame wars ensue as people get annoyed.

What I find especially strange is how people often put all the blame on other people for top-posting when I think the software is partially to blame. Many email programs & services I've used currently and in the past (Eudora, Mozilla Thunderbird, Hotmail, Gmail, Yahoo Mail, etc.) all top-post, and with some of them, I don't think there's even an option to change it so they bottom-post by default.

So as many people argue with
others not to top-post, many such top-posters don't realize it's bad at first because their software top-posts and they don't know any better.
Also, as some software doesn't let you change how they post, it can be tiresome to bottom-post with them. Software that top-posts by default will insert a couple of blank lines at the top of the message and leave you at the top of the message, so you have to manually removing the first 2 lines they insert at the top of the message, then scroll all the way down to the bottom of the message in order to bottom-post.

Another thing that I find strange, and a bit peculiar, is that the only places where it's even an issue is on BBSs and Usenet. When using internet email outside of the BBS realm, top-posting is the norm, and people don't make a fuss about it. Also, many news web sites allow people to post comments on articles, and many of them show the most recent comment first, akin to top-posting. That actually bugs me a little bit because when people reply to other comments, it's often hard to follow the conversations.

I just find it interesting that there is a double-standard regarding top-posting and bottom-posting, where bottom-posting is the norm on BBSs and usenet, and top-posting seems to be the norm pretty much everywhere else. I also find it interesting that people make such a fuss about it when someone does the opposite.

You wouldn't tell your grandma to fuck off for top/bottom posting, yet people seem to be more than happy to shout about it to strangers. Go
figure. Definitely a double standard IMO.

What I find especially strange is how people often put all the blame on other people for top-posting when I think the software is partially to blame. Many email programs & services I've used currently and in the past (Eudora, Mozilla Thunderbird, Hotmail, Gmail, Yahoo Mail, etc.) all top-post, and with some of them, I don't think there's even an option to change it so they bottom-post by default. So as many people argue with

I just find it interesting that there is a double-standard regarding top-posting and bottom-posting, where bottom-posting is the norm on BBSs
and usenet, and top-posting seems to be the norm pretty much everywhere else. I also find it interesting that people make such a fuss about it
when someone does the opposite.

The software defintely can take a partial blame to that as well. That said, some people are just lazy and don't change their settings even though they'r the first people to pipe up when someone else doesn't follow "protocol". heh

It's probably some sort of generation gap type thing. Either way, we've exchanged emails in the past, and I'm pretty sure you've noticed I bottom po on _everything_. Like you said, it's just easier to read that way.

I use Thunderbird for email, and go with the settings of bottom posting AND plain text format. I don't need to see 1800 smileys in an email, along with other html garble. :)

You wouldn't tell your grandma to fuck off for top/bottom posting, yet people seem to be more than happy to shout about it to strangers. Go figure. Definitely a double standard IMO.

That's very true. I think people get too uptight about things like this sometimes.

Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
By: Nightfox to art on Tue Feb 07 2012 12:48:04

Hey NF,

You wouldn't tell your grandma to fuck off for top/bottom posting, yet people seem to be more than happy to shout about it to strangers. Go figure. Definitely a double standard IMO.

That's very true. I think people get too uptight about things like this sometimes.

Aye, I consider a post/e-mail on the merits of the communication within, not the order of the quotations. Personally, I could care less whether it's top/mid/bottom. I do care that it's got a coherent, logical flow.

I tend to find people who complain about top/bottom posting are generally us it as an excuse to start a flame war or other argument as a tangent.

Regards,

art@fatcatsbbsdotcom

"What is it that you think that you're rescuing me from? My shipmates
and I have all taken wives. A few even have children. You can't rescue
a man from a place that he calls his home."
-- Ramsey in ST:TNG "Angel One"

That's true.. But I'm not sure there is always a setting in the software. I've been using web-based email for quite a while (Gmail and Hotmail), and
I don't recall seeing a setting in their preferences to toggle top-posting vs. bottom-posting when replying to emails.

Also, if one person changes that, it may lead to very confusing emails - In a long thread, your reply would be on the bottom of text where everyone
else had replied on top. Continuity would then be inconsistent.

Yep. I tend to follow the "when in Rome" rule when emailing people - If they bottom-post (or vice-versa), then I'll do so as well, to keep the flow consistent and less confusing. However, if I'm emailing someone on a BBS
or from the BBS scene, I tend to always bottom-post because that's the norm in the BBS world.

:) I used Thunderbird for a long time too. If you set it to plain email, do you still see a bunch of HTML tags in your emails, or does Thunderbird filter those out? I would tend to leave the HTML setting turned on, otherwise I'd get a bunch of HTML tags in my emails, which would make my email very difficult to read.

I pretty much stopped using Thunderbird though, when I decided to stop
using my ISP's email account and use Gmail as my primary email service. I know Thunderbird can connect to Gmail, but I decided to just use their web interface for consistency (I don't always check my Gmail account on my home computer).

I tend to find people who complain about top/bottom posting are generally using it as an excuse to start a flame war or other argument as a tangent.

I just find it interesting that there is a double-standard regarding top-posting and bottom-posting, where bottom-posting is the norm on BBSs and usenet, and top-posting seems to be the norm pretty much everywhere else. I also find it interesting that people make such a fuss about it when someone does the opposite.

It's probably some sort of generation gap type thing. Either way, we've exchanged emails in the past, and I'm pretty sure you've noticed I bottom po on _everything_. Like you said, it's just easier to read that way.

I use Thunderbird for email, and go with the settings of bottom posting AND plain text format. I don't need to see 1800 smileys in an email, along with other html garble. :)

--
Nick aka axisd - telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org
http://pharcyde.org

Nightfox wrote to All <=-

Since I started using the internet, something that I've thought was interesting is peoples' attitudes toward bottom-posting vs.
top-posting. On BBSs, it has always been customary to bottom-post, and that is also encouraged by the fact that BBS email software
bottom-posts by default. This was also carried over to Usenet to some extent, but other internet messaging software (email, in particular) is usually made to top-post by default. Thus, when people reply to email, they usually top-post in their replies. And when such people go
posting on Usenet (and sometimes on BBSs now), they top-post there, and flame wars ensue as people get annoyed.

Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
By: Nightfox to Access Denied on Tue Feb 07 2012 06:38 pm

That's true.. But I'm not sure there is always a setting in the software I've been using web-based email for quite a while (Gmail and Hotmail), an I don't recall seeing a setting in their preferences to toggle top-postin vs. bottom-posting when replying to emails.

I'm sure it's not common throughout different softwares or web-based email. It's one of those things that's added sporatically, and even if added, usual isn't the default setting.

Also, if one person changes that, it may lead to very confusing emails - a long thread, your reply would be on the bottom of text where everyone else had replied on top. Continuity would then be inconsistent.

I've never had any complaints yet. Granted, when you reply to someone like t message for example, and you reply to segments of their original post, it le them know what they hell you're replying to.

The few times I have top posted.. by the time it got back to me I had forgot everything the original message was about. So I just stick to my norm. :)

Yep. I tend to follow the "when in Rome" rule when emailing people - If they bottom-post (or vice-versa), then I'll do so as well, to keep the fl consistent and less confusing. However, if I'm emailing someone on a BBS or from the BBS scene, I tend to always bottom-post because that's the no in the BBS world.

Meh, any time I top post it becomes more confusing. Just differs from the wa I've always done it, I guess. I'm not going to change my ways to make anyone happy.. at least when it comes to something as minor as email. :)

:) I used Thunderbird for a long time too. If you set it to plain email do you still see a bunch of HTML tags in your emails, or does Thunderbird filter those out? I would tend to leave the HTML setting turned on, otherwise I'd get a bunch of HTML tags in my emails, which would make my email very difficult to read.

It filters all of that out, and even adds >'s and >>'s (etc) to what you're replying to. Damn near exactly like a BBS.

I pretty much stopped using Thunderbird though, when I decided to stop using my ISP's email account and use Gmail as my primary email service. know Thunderbird can connect to Gmail, but I decided to just use their we interface for consistency (I don't always check my Gmail account on my ho computer).

You're not the only one. I know quite a few people that only use web-based email. I like having all of my addresses accessible through Thunderbird at o time. Though, from anywhere else, I could access any web-based email I wante to as well.. which I usually don't, since I'm not around computers all day while at work, and when we're out and about, computers are one of my least concerns.

--
Nick aka axisd - telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org
http://pharcyde.org

Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
By: Access Denied to Nightfox on Tue Feb 07 2012 04:52 pm

I just find it interesting that there is a double-standard regarding top-posting and bottom-posting, where bottom-posting is the norm on BB and usenet, and top-posting seems to be the norm pretty much everywher else. I also find it interesting that people make such a fuss about i when someone does the opposite.

It's probably some sort of generation gap type thing. Either way, we've exchanged emails in the past, and I'm pretty sure you've noticed I bottom on _everything_. Like you said, it's just easier to read that way.

I use Thunderbird for email, and go with the settings of bottom posting A plain text format. I don't need to see 1800 smileys in an email, along wi other html garble. :)

--
Nick aka axisd - telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org
http://pharcyde.org

My wife loves bottom posting...whoops, wrong net.......

NIGHTOWL BBS
__________-------____ ____-------__________
\------____-------___--__---------__--___-------____------/
\//////// / / / / / \ _-------_ / \ \ \ \ \ \\\\\\\\/
\////-/-/------/_/_| /___ ___\ |_\_\------\-\-\\\\/
--//// / / / //|| (O)\ /(O) ||\\ \ \ \ \\\\--
---__/ // /| \_ /V\ _/ |\ \\ \__---
-// / /\_ ------- _/\ \ \\-
\_/_/ /\---------/\ \_\_/
----\ | /----
| -|- |
/ | \
---- \___|
night.synchro.net

.

You're not the only one. I know quite a few people that only use web-based email. I like having all of my addresses accessible through Thunderbird at o time.

I tend to find people who complain about top/bottom posting are generally using it as an excuse to start a flame war or other argument as a

tangent.
That and the fact that some people just have absolutely nothing better to do.

Remember when BBSes had "flame wars" subs? Sysop would actively encourage th kind of behavior, back in the day. Some people actually enjoy it. Strange.

What's so strange about it, asshole? I enjoy it, you fucking jerk.

I'll c u in da FLAME sub, bitch!
Regards,

LOL! :-P She's a bottom lover?

$ The Millionaire $
Park Avenue Place
Surrey, B.C., Canada █ ♠ █

Access Denied wrote to Nightfox <=-

@VIA: VERT/PHARCYDE
@MSGID: <4F31AB15.1053.dove-int@pharcyde.org>
@REPLY: <4F30CACC.1474.dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
Re: Bottom-posting etiquette
By: Nightfox to All on Mon Feb 06 2012 10:55 pm

What I find especially strange is how people often put all the blame on other people for top-posting when I think the software is partially to blame. Many email programs & services I've used currently and in the past (Eudora, Mozilla Thunderbird, Hotmail, Gmail, Yahoo Mail, etc.) all top-post, and with some of them, I don't think there's even an option to change it so they bottom-post by default. So as many people argue with

The software defintely can take a partial blame to that as well. That said, some people are just lazy and don't change their settings even though they're the first people to pipe up when someone else doesn't follow "protocol". heh

I just find it interesting that there is a double-standard regarding top-posting and bottom-posting, where bottom-posting is the norm on BBSs
and usenet, and top-posting seems to be the norm pretty much everywhere else. I also find it interesting that people make such a fuss about it
when someone does the opposite.

It's probably some sort of generation gap type thing. Either way, we've exchanged emails in the past, and I'm pretty sure you've noticed I
bottom post on _everything_. Like you said, it's just easier to read
that way.

I use Thunderbird for email, and go with the settings of bottom posting AND plain text format. I don't need to see 1800 smileys in an email,
along with the other html garble. :)

Since I started using the internet, something that I've thought was interesting
is peoples' attitudes toward bottom-posting vs. top-posting. On BBSs, it has always been customary to bottom-post, and that is also encouraged by the fact that BBS email software bottom-posts by default. This was also carried over to
Usenet to some extent, but other internet messaging software (email, in particular) is usually made to top-post by default. Thus, when people reply to
email, they usually top-post in their replies. And when such people go posting
on Usenet (and sometimes on BBSs now), they top-post there, and flame wars ensue as people get annoyed.

What I find especially strange is how people often put all the blame on other people for top-posting when I think the software is partially to blame. Many email programs& services I've used currently and in the past (Eudora, Mozilla
Thunderbird, Hotmail, Gmail, Yahoo Mail, etc.) all top-post, and with some of them, I don't think there's even an option to change it so they bottom-post by
default. So as many people argue with others not to top-post, many such top-posters don't realize it's bad at first because their software top-posts and they don't know any better. Also, as some software doesn't let you change
how they post, it can be tiresome to bottom-post with them. Software that top-posts by default will insert a couple of blank lines at the top of the message and leave you at the top of the message, so you have to manually removing the first 2 lines they insert at the top of the message, then
scroll all the way down to the bottom of the message in order to bottom-post.

Another thing that I find strange, and a bit peculiar, is that the only places
where it's even an issue is on BBSs and Usenet. When using internet email outside of the BBS realm, top-posting is the norm, and people don't make a fuss
about it. Also, many news web sites allow people to post comments on articles,
and many of them show the most recent comment first, akin to top-posting. That
actually bugs me a little bit because when people reply to other comments, it's
often hard to follow the conversations.

I just find it interesting that there is a double-standard regarding top-posting and bottom-posting, where bottom-posting is the norm on BBSs and usenet, and top-posting seems to be the norm pretty much everywhere else. I also find it interesting that people make such a fuss about it when someone does the opposite.

Nightfox

---
� Synchronet � Digital Distortion BBS - digdist.bbsindex.com

In the immortal words of "Serious" Phil Taylor:
WHY DO YOU COME OVER MY HOUSE YOU CHICKEN SHIT AND I KICK FUCKING ASS AND YO CAN STOP HIDDING FROM YOUR OP PRIVELAGES!

Hmm...

To be honest I've never really thought about it much and have always accepted that it is best to top post on emails and selectively bottom
post on BBS/Fido type networks. This is the first time I have ever sent
a top post on BBS/Fido type networks so I am ready for the flames!

My theory on why people have migrated from selective bottom posting to
top posting is that data transfer is now inexpensive and it is easier to have a complete email trail that save loads of email messages.

My theory on why people have migrated from selective bottom posting to
top posting is that data transfer is now inexpensive and it is easier
to have a complete email trail that save loads of email messages.

email messages. However I still need to check that people in the thread have not chopped, edited or forked the mail history...

I have a macro configured to automatically move new sent items messages back to my inbox. I then change the inbox view to include both sender
and recipient name (this works well with my wide screen laptop). Thus
all my email threads are in one place and it makes it a lot easier to manage.