Re: Netscape
By: Allen Scofield to All on Mon Nov 11 2013 01:20:09

I still have Netscape 2 on 3.5" floppies. They were given away by my former ISP when the "Net" finally made it to my little area back in
1996.

I remember using that.. I think the first version of Netscape I used was 2.01, on Windows 3.1. When I first started using the internet, I thought it was so cool that there was (relatively speaking) vast amount of information online and there were files & things that were easier to find online compared to hunting them down on my local BBSes.

Although most internet software was always free, and I never bought commercial web browsers, etc., I remember seeing a software package in a local Egghead Software called "Internet in a Box" and thought that was a cool name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_a_Box

Nightfox

Re: Netscape
By: Allen Scofield to All on Mon Nov 11 2013 01:20:09

I can remember when Slackware still came with Netscape. Tried to install an old version of it in FreeBSD but no luck.

I still have AOL 3.0 on floppy disk. Couldn't configure 3.0 but the newer versions still work!

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■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com

Re: Netscape
By: S/370 to Allen Scofield on Mon Nov 25 2013 22:29:55

I can remember when Slackware still came with Netscape. Tried to install

Darn, all I can remember is the days when the slackware kernel was like 0.2.5 or so, and there was very little X windows. You didn't really have your pick of "window managers", you just considered yourself lucky if you had a working xwindows! Most folks didn't have much of a use for xwindows back then any way, it was just a little extra on their fancy console OS!

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■ Synchronet ■ Roach Guts -- kingcoder.net

Re: Netscape
By: KF5QEO to S/370 on Tue Dec 10 2013 03:23:29

Holy crap! And I thought the Slackware 3.0 days were bad! Configuring xfree86 alone would be a master thesis.

I've been wondering, how usable was Slackware in the pre-2.0 kernel days? Like you said, X was a novelty but was it more or less as usable as Win95 or 311? (Minus the games of course lol)

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Re: Netscape
By: S/370 to KF5QEO on Sun Dec 15 2013 22:13:05

I've been wondering, how usable was Slackware in the pre-2.0 kernel days? Li you said, X was a novelty but was it more or less as usable as Win95 or 311? (Minus the games of course lol)

Muuuuch fewer applications. Video was a bit of a headache, sound was a pain in the ass. Networking was a little more difficult, I think, but this could be incorrect just because I didn't know jack about TCP/IP at the time and only had experience with running a crossover ethernet cable to one other machine, and then ppp with a modem. Pretty sure that the main things I used it for at that point were multiple rxvt sessions (limited RAM--rxvt used less than xterm) where I was just doing console crap, anyway, and xemacs (maybe some gvim at the time, too, if that was available then). Oh, and web browsing, though I kept that to lynx whenever possible due to the browser's RAM requirements.

--Damo

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■ Synchronet

Khelair wrote to S/370 <=-

Muuuuch fewer applications. Video was a bit of a headache, sound
was a pain in the ass. Networking was a little more difficult, I
think, but this could be incorrect just because I didn't know jack
about TCP/IP

What Khelair said.

Limited network card support - I remember tracking down Intel Etherexpress drivers, sneakernetting it to the Linux box and having to recompile the
kernel. No dynamic modules back then that I knew of. VESA support was
tricky, I remember buying a specific video card because I knew it worked.

I used TWM back then, as K said, opening a handful of terminals. There
weren't many graphical apps. I remember a few early graphical browsers.

PINE or MUTT were your email friends.

Oh, and RPM or apt-get. Nope.

hand-hack a configuration file, then run make;make install and hope it
worked.




... (Organic) machinery
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Re: Netscape
By: Khelair to S/370 on Mon Dec 16 2013 07:54:10

Holy crap! And I thought I was the only person with RAM issues. I tried using Slackware 3.3 and even that felt really bloated on my 166Mhz Pentium (16MB). Guess I should just use ports of UNIX software in win95 instead of a full Linux installation.

I still use rxvt (actually urxvt) for that same reason. And shame on the people who use gnome-terminal!

How can Linux be so bloated during its infancy? Is it due to it being programmed almost exclusively in C? Or is it due to its multi-tasking, multi-user features?

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Re: Re: Netscape
By: Poindexter Fortran to Khelair on Mon Dec 16 2013 10:13:00

Never thought networking would be an issue for ethernet cards. Dialup on the other hand...I remember wasting CDRs just trying to transfer winmodem drivers to my computer at home. Thank god for broadband, simply because ethernet/wireless hardware gets much better support.

Even today, I still have to edit config files by hand and run ./configure && make && make install. Not sure if its cause im more proficient in UNIX now or not, but seems like source code installs much smoother these days than 10 years ago. Lol RPMs, I can remember when that was almost the standard for package distribution. I also remember those RPM converters that would convert an RPM to another distribution's format. Never seemed to work for me though.

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■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com

Re: Netscape
By: S/370 to Khelair on Sat Dec 21 2013 01:11:57

Holy crap! And I thought I was the only person with RAM issues. I tried usin Slackware 3.3 and even that felt really bloated on my 166Mhz Pentium (16MB). Guess I should just use ports of UNIX software in win95 instead of a full Li installation.

I don't remember exactly which version of Slackware 3.3 was; I always remembered which was which by kernel version. I started in the 1.0.x (where 'x' was in the low teens, I believe) kernel versions.

I still use rxvt (actually urxvt) for that same reason. And shame on the peo who use gnome-terminal!

I agree completely; rxvt does everything you need for a terminal, and bloat like gnome-terminal really rubs me the wrong way.

How can Linux be so bloated during its infancy? Is it due to it being programmed almost exclusively in C? Or is it due to its multi-tasking, multi-user features?

I really don't think that it was, actually. I've seen it on a 386dx before, doing things that the same machine couldn't handle in DOS mode with multithreading. For instance, the comm software 'telemate' had a multithreading engine of sorts in it. You could edit text, write software in telemate's own scripting language, cut 'n paste from scrollback into messages and the like, etc, while doing a 14.4k file xfer with zmodem. However, your errors would definately go up due to dropped bytes and invalid CRCs.
Switching to 1.0.x slackware, though, with the same amount of RAM, you could start the same file xferring in terminal one, switch to two and play tetris for terminals, and switch to three and run a niced compilation process (not sure if you could do one that engaged swapping, though-- can't remember that well), and your errors wouldn't go down at all.
Is this the kind of stuff that you were talking about or did you primarily mean in graphical environments? Even with that caveat, I don't think I've
ever seen a computer swap more, on any semi-equivalent hardware, on linux
as opposed to the same generation's version of Windows. :P

--Damo dice, "Perhaps today IS a good day to die!"

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■ Synchronet

Re: Netscape
By: Nightfox to Allen Scofield on Mon Nov 11 2013 08:06 pm

Although most internet software was always free, and I never bought commerci

al

web browsers, etc., I remember seeing a software package in a local Egghead Software called "Internet in a Box" and thought that was a cool name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_a_Box

Nightfox

I remember this softtware. It was Sprys internet in a box. I used it. Back then you had to incorperate applications to use winsock.dll. The dialer would dial your IP, run a logon script and connect via winsock.dll. From there you could run the browser and other applications it came with. I believe Mosaic came with it. Netscape also was a commercial application with a dialer. At the time Netscape blew away any other browsers. I started with Netscape 0.9 and stopped using it abou the time Netscape Communicator came out. Now wireless connections are common. Who knew?

HusTler

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Although most internet software was always free, and I never bought commerci

al

web browsers, etc., I remember seeing a software package in a local Egghead Software called "Internet in a Box" and thought that was a cool name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_a_Box

Nightfox

I remember this softtware. It was Sprys internet in a box. I used it.
Back then you had to incorperate applications to use winsock.dll. The
dialer would dial your IP, run a logon script and connect via winsock.dll. From there you could run the browser and other applications it came with. I believe Mosaic came with it. Netscape also was a commercial application
with a dialer. At the time Netscape blew away any other browsers. I started with Netscape 0.9 and stopped using it abou the time Netscape Communicator

Yeah, I remember doing all that - but I didn't use Internet in a Box. I had just downloaded the components separately and used them as you described. I started using Netscape around version 2.01, I think. I didn't know Netscape had a dialer.. Interesting.

came out. Now wireless connections are common. Who knew?

By wireless, do you mean wi-fi? Wi-fi has been around for quite a while now..

Nightfox

Re: Netscape
By: Nightfox to Hustler on Tue Feb 18 2014 07:47 am

Yeah, I remember doing all that - but I didn't use Internet in a Box. I had just downloaded the components separately and used them as you described. I started using Netscape around version 2.01, I think. I didn't know Netscape had a dialer.. Interesting.

came out. Now wireless connections are common. Who knew?

By wireless, do you mean wi-fi? Wi-fi has been around for quite a while now

..

Nightfox

Wi-fi yea. Maybe the technology has been around but public access is still hard to find. In my area anyway. The dialer was just another way to control your usage. Other browsers didn't work with Spry's dialer.


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Re: Netscape
By: Hustler to Nightfox on Tue Feb 18 2014 08:28:34

Wi-fi yea. Maybe the technology has been around but public access is still hard to find. In my area anyway. The dialer was just another way
to control your usage. Other browsers didn't work with Spry's dialer.

Public wi-fi is spotty where I live.
I didn't know web browsers used to have dialers.. When I started using the internet, it was already with Winsock to dial out, and then you could use any internet app you wanted.

Nightfox

Nightfox wrote to Hustler <=-

Yeah, I remember doing all that - but I didn't use Internet in a Box.
I had just downloaded the components separately and used them as you described. I started using Netscape around version 2.01, I think. I didn't know Netscape had a dialer.. Interesting.

IIRC, back then Netscape had two or three packages.. They shipped a
standalone browser (Gold?), and a full comm package (Communicator).
The full package included WWW, IRC, Mail, Newsgroups, an editor, and
the dialer.



--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
■ Synchronet ■ Sovereign State BBS

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Dreamer to Nightfox on Tue Feb 18 2014 19:28:00

IIRC, back then Netscape had two or three packages.. They shipped a standalone browser (Gold?), and a full comm package (Communicator).
The full package included WWW, IRC, Mail, Newsgroups, an editor, and
the dialer.

Communicator? Now there's a blast from the past. I still don't get why Netscape was abandoned and FIREFOX took its place.

Re: Re: Netscape
By: HusTler to Dreamer on Wed Feb 19 2014 10:28 pm

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Dreamer to Nightfox on Tue Feb 18 2014 19:28:00

IIRC, back then Netscape had two or three packages.. They shipped a standalone browser (Gold?), and a full comm package (Communicator).
The full package included WWW, IRC, Mail, Newsgroups, an editor, and
the dialer.

Communicator? Now there's a blast from the past. I still don't get why Netscape was abandoned and FIREFOX took its place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape

digital man

Synchronet "Real Fact" #61:
Name of Synchronet PCMS compiler/language "Baja" was coined by Michael Swindell.
Norco, CA WX: 78.5°F, 13.0% humidity, 3 mph WNW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

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--- HUSTLER wrote --
Re: Re: Netscap
By: Dreamer to Nightfox on Tu

IIRC, back then Netscape had two or three packages.. They shipped standalone browser (Gold?), and a full comm package (Communicator)
The full package included WWW, IRC, Mail, Newsgroups, an editor, an
the dialer

Communicator? Now there's a blast from the past. I still don't get wh Netscape was abandoned and FIREFOX took its place
0
--
Synchronet Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.co

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--- HUSTLER wrote --
Re: Re: Netscap
By: Dreamer to Nightfox on Tu

IIRC, back then Netscape had two or three packages.. They shipped standalone browser (Gold?), and a full comm package (Communicator)
The full package included WWW, IRC, Mail, Newsgroups, an editor, an
the dialer

Communicator? Now there's a blast from the past. I still don't get wh Netscape was abandoned and FIREFOX took its place
0
--
Synchronet Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.co

It was because of Netscape's low market share. AOL wanted to divert those resources elsewhere.


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Re: Re: Netscape
By: HusTler to Dreamer on Wed Feb 19 2014 10:28 pm

Communicator? Now there's a blast from the past. I still don't get why Netscape was abandoned and FIREFOX took its place.

Because Netscape had grown extremely bloated. The brand had also lost a lot of its mojo as IE gained ground.

Firefox was leaner, focused on just web browsing, and much faster.

I was an early Firefox adopter, though I switched to Chrome (at work) and Safari (at home) in recent years after Firefox itself seemed to grow bloated.

--Josh

////--------------------------------------------------
BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog


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Re: Re: Netscape
By: HusTler to Dreamer on Wed Feb 19 2014 10:28 pm

Communicator? Now there's a blast from the past. I still don't get why Netscape was abandoned and FIREFOX took its place.

I still use Seamonkey.

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Re: Re: Netscape
By: Kirkman to HusTler on Sat Feb 22 2014 07:00 pm

Firefox was leaner, focused on just web browsing, and much faster.

Interestingly, when compared to Seamonkey, it had almost the same memory footprint, ran at the same speed, and simply had features removed or moved to the about:config section.

---
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Re: Re: Netscape
By: HusTler to Dreamer on Wed Feb 19 2014 22:28:10

Communicator? Now there's a blast from the past. I still don't get why Netscape was abandoned and FIREFOX took its place.

That's a sore subject with me! When I signed up with a company that had dial-up internet, I had to buy netscape to connect with them. Now the version I bought wasn't in, they said it'd be in in a week or so. It came in, I picked it up and he said that now, it's kinda obsolete, because Internet Explorer could be downloaded for free with a dialer that made netscape useless. Now he didn't refund my money I forked out on Netscape, didn't offer to give me a copy of Explorer for free, etc. A week later, Netscape announced it was now completely free! About a year later, that company was bought out by another company, and shortly afterwards it went out of business completely.

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■ Synchronet ■ Roach Guts -- kingcoder.net

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Deuce to HusTler on Mon Feb 24 2014 18:25:31

I still use Seamonkey.

(hold while I put on my asbestus suit!)
I used to love seamonkey, love the look and the ability to use Firefox plugins. But last few years, something happened and seamonkey just lost its pizazz.
On linux, I prefer to use opera, on Windows I typically spend more time in Internet Explorer. Sorry, but Chrome seems to have gone too bogged down and slow, Firefox just doesn't seem to give me any reason to use it, and not really sure why Seamonkey isn't a hit with me either. Perhaps memory. I do know from running various browsers on the Raspberry Pi, you REALLY see a difference between Chrome and just about every other browser, including Opera. I sometimes use Lynx via kingcoder.net and ssh...

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■ Synchronet ■ Roach Guts -- kingcoder.net

Re: Re: Netscape
By: KF5QEO to Deuce on Thu Feb 27 2014 11:45 pm

(hold while I put on my asbestus suit!)
I used to love seamonkey, love the look and the ability to use Firefox plugins. But last few years, something happened and seamonkey just lost its pizazz.
On linux, I prefer to use opera, on Windows I typically spend more time in Internet Explorer.

I never found Seamonkey to have pizazz, it just has features I care about that were removed when Firefox became the focus (such as the ability to log out of a
website). I generally use Opera on Windows because it fits better and Seamonkey feels like a dinosaur there.

I dislike all the browsers which have removed as many controls from the main screen as possible. I never liked Chrome, and now that Opera is using either chrome or webkit (can't remember) for rendering, it's going into the pile of "stuff that doesn't have enough advantage to use".

As for Internet Explorer, I don't hate it.

---
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Re: Re: Netscape
By: KF5QEO to Deuce on Thu Feb 27 2014 11:45 pm

I still use Seamonkey.

(hold while I put on my asbestus suit!)
I used to love seamonkey, love the look and the ability to use Firefox plugins. But last few years, something happened and seamonkey just lost

One thing I like about Firefox is the automatic updates.

I have an older computer that I got from my last job... it was owned by the state and used for logging vehicle inspections. 1GB hard drive, 512MB
memory. 1Ghz celeron processor, I think, with almost no optimizations. Not a whole lot you can do with it these days.

For quite a while I let the kids use it, and I loaded Puppy Linux onto it. Puppy hasn't been upgraded in a while, so most of the browsers you can get for it are out of date. However, I loaded the Firefox PET, and from within Firefox started the upgrade process, restarted Firefox, repeat about six or seven times and I was running the latest Firefox.

I really like that.

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■ Synchronet ■ Sovereign State BBS

One thing I like about Firefox is the automatic updates.

I have an older computer that I got from my last job... it was owned by the state and used for logging vehicle inspections. 1GB hard drive, 512MB memory. 1Ghz celeron processor, I think, with almost no optimizations. Not a whole lot you can do with it these days.

For quite a while I let the kids use it, and I loaded Puppy Linux onto it. Puppy hasn't been upgraded in a while, so most of the browsers you can get for it are out of date. However, I loaded the Firefox PET, and from within Firefox started the upgrade process, restarted Firefox, repeat about six or seven times and I was running the latest Firefox.

I really like that.

I like Firefox, but for the past couple years I've been using Google Chrome most often. Although there are things about Chrome I don't like (most notably its UI), Chrome is noticeably faster, and I like that. Regarding updates, Chrome seems to do its updates totally behind the scenes without notifying you (which is another thing I don't really like about Chrome - I like to know when I'm getting updates so that I'm not totally surprised when something suddenly changes).

I really like Firefox, but sadly, Firefox became fairly slow, and I think Firefox's UI is starting to degrade as well - A couple years ago, they added that "Firefox button" at the top of the browser, but thankfully you can revert it back to a more traditional interface with the menu bar. More recently,
they removed one of my favorite features, the ability to hide the tab bar when you have only one tab open. I don't know what else they might change in the future..

Nightfox

Dreamer wrote to KF5QEO <=-

I have an older computer that I got from my last job... it was owned by the state and used for logging vehicle inspections. 1GB hard drive,
512MB memory. 1Ghz celeron processor, I think, with almost no optimizations. Not a whole lot you can do with it these days.

Huh?

That's almost exactly the specs for my BBS -- except for the hard drive.
It'd run Lubuntu just fine, but you may want a bigger hard drive for your
data.




... Powered By Celeron (Tualatin). Engineered for the future.
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Re: Re: Netscape
By: Poindexter Fortran to Dreamer on Mon Mar 24 2014 09:30 am

Dreamer wrote to KF5QEO <=-

I have an older computer that I got from my last job... it was owned
by the state and used for logging vehicle inspections. 1GB hard
drive, 512MB memory. 1Ghz celeron processor, I think, with almost no optimizations. Not a whole lot you can do with it these days.

Huh?

That's almost exactly the specs for my BBS -- except for the hard drive. It'd run Lubuntu just fine, but you may want a bigger hard drive for your data.

i'd just toss it and get a netbook for an atom desktop. small and quiet and
low power consumption.
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Re: Re: Netscape
By: Mro to Poindexter Fortran on Wed Mar 26 2014 11:13 pm

i'd just toss it and get a netbook for an atom desktop. small and quiet and low power consumption.

You might. Others might not. An Atom desktop is how much, versus a system that's already built and paid for.

I hate tossing stuff out, would much rather extend the life of equipment than dealing with disposing of even more electronic waste.

Remember, these old Celerons had DINKY power supplies compared to modern desktops. A 1 ghz Celeron desktop probably has a 185w power supply and doesn't take a whole lot at idle.

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Re: Re: Netscape
By: Poindexter Fortran to Mro on Thu Mar 27 2014 12:11 pm

You might. Others might not. An Atom desktop is how much, versus a system that's already built and paid for.

I hate tossing stuff out, would much rather extend the life of equipment than dealing with disposing of even more electronic waste.

Remember, these old Celerons had DINKY power supplies compared to modern desktops. A 1 ghz Celeron desktop probably has a 185w power supply and doesn't take a whole lot at idle.

i just prefer to toss a big old junky computer out when you can have something much smaller and quieter do the same job of 1 or several older computers.

i have datastream here running on a dualcore netbook and it is propped up sideways behind my display at the moment.
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■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Poindexter Fortran wrote to Dreamer <=-

Dreamer wrote to KF5QEO <=-

I have an older computer that I got from my last job... it was owned by the state and used for logging vehicle inspections. 1GB hard drive,
512MB memory. 1Ghz celeron processor, I think, with almost no optimizations. Not a whole lot you can do with it these days.

Huh?

That's almost exactly the specs for my BBS -- except for the hard
drive. It'd run Lubuntu just fine, but you may want a bigger hard drive for your data.

I used it for a while with a little USB flash drive, but I wasn't
comfortable with that, and finally settled on a small 256MB VPS.



--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
■ Synchronet ■ Sovereign State BBS

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Dreamer to KF5QEO on Mon Mar 24 2014 06:35 am

Actually I'm running ubuntu 12.04 on an IBM Thinkpad with only 512MB of RAM. Through in a bigger hard drive and you're in business. Of course I installed the Xubuntu desktop (Xfce) to improve speed, which works very well. It consumes close to 100MB less RAM then with Unity.

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■ Synchronet ■ RetroDigital.net BBS

q

Actually I'm running ubuntu 12.04 on an IBM Thinkpad with only 512MB of RAM. Through in a bigger hard drive and you're in business. Of course I installed the Xubuntu desktop (Xfce) to improve speed, which works very well. It consumes close to 100MB less RAM then with Unity.

I recently installed Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and considering insalling gnome. Is gnome a memory hog? I hadn't heard of Xubuntu desktop till now.

HusTler

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Re: Re: Netscape
By: Mr. Cool to Dreamer on Mon Mar 31 2014 11:49 pm

Actually I'm running ubuntu 12.04 on an IBM Thinkpad with only 512MB of RAM. Through in a bigger hard drive and you're in business. Of course I installed the Xubuntu desktop (Xfce) to improve speed, which works very well. It consumes close to 100MB less RAM then with Unity.

Lubuntu is a good option for low-end systems, too. It's using LXDE (another small window manager) and the application set is also chosen for low-end systems without lots of memory/CPU. Sylpheed for email, for example, instead of Thunderbird. Their own software "store". It runs on my Thinkpad T42 in about 100 megs of memory!

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Re: Re: Netscape
By: HusTler to Mr. Cool on Tue Apr 01 2014 03:31 am

I recently installed Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and considering insalling gnome.
Is gnome a memory hog? I hadn't heard of Xubuntu desktop till now.

hoggy hog hog. If you're running on a slow/small box, look at Xubuntu, Lubuntu, or roll your own with OpenBox or one of the other small WMs.

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■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Poindexter Fortran to Mr. Cool on Tue Apr 01 2014 09:18 am

Actually I'm running ubuntu 12.04 on an IBM Thinkpad with only 512MB
of RAM. Through in a bigger hard drive and you're in business. Of

Lubuntu is a good option for low-end systems, too. It's using LXDE (another small window manager) and the application set is also chosen for low-end systems without lots of memory/CPU. Sylpheed for email, for example, instead of Thunderbird. Their own software "store". It runs on my Thinkpad T42 in about 100 megs of memory!

I have a VM running Debian 7.4 (Wheezy) with no window manager, decided I wanted something simple, setup Fluxbox with xorg, was pretty easy to setup, pretty simple, no frills, I suspect it uses little ram, loads in a heartbeat. You can probably start with any base distro, install just the bare essentials then add an x server and window manager of your choosing. there are sites that only talk about window managers for linux.


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Re: Re: Netscape
By: Poindexter Fortran to Mro on Thu Mar 27 2014 12:11 pm

You might. Others might not. An Atom desktop is how much, versus a system that's already built and paid for.

$99

http://linuxgizmos.com/intel-unveils-tiny-x86-minnowboard-max-open-sbc/

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Re: Re: Netscape
By: Poindexter Fortran to HusTler on Tue Apr 01 2014 09:18 am

hoggy hog hog. If you're running on a slow/small box, look at Xubuntu, Lubuntu, or roll your own with OpenBox or one of the other small WMs.

Definitely I had Ubuntu on my old Acer netbook and it was unusable. Lubuntu ran beautifully. Gnome is a beast.

-nolageek

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Re: Re: Netscape
By: Android8675 to Poindexter Fortran on Tue Apr 01 2014 11:11 am

I have a VM running Debian 7.4 (Wheezy) with no window manager, decided I wanted something simple, setup Fluxbox with xorg, was pretty easy to setup, pretty simple, no frills, I suspect it uses little ram, loads in a heartbeat. You can probably start with any base distro, install just the bare essentials then add an x server and window manager of your choosing.

I did that with a Ubuntu VM I'm testing my BBS on - no graphical login screen, just the plain old login: prompt. Want a window manager? Type startx. Don't? That's OK, too.

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Re: Re: Netscape
By: HusTler to Mr. Cool on Tue Apr 01 2014 03:31 am

q

Actually I'm running ubuntu 12.04 on an IBM Thinkpad with only 512MB of RAM. Through in a bigger hard drive and you're in business. Of course installed the Xubuntu desktop (Xfce) to improve speed, which works very well. It consumes close to 100MB less RAM then with Unity.

I recently installed Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and considering insalling gnome. Is gn a memory hog? I hadn't heard of Xubuntu desktop till now.

HusTler

Unity is actually based on Gnome 2.x. It's nice if your machine has the power to run it. Xubuntu however is the perfect balance between a light and functional desktop envinroment. It is very customizable and even can look just as nice as a fancier desktop.

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■ Synchronet ■ RetroDigital.net BBS

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Deuce to Poindexter Fortran on Tue Apr 01 2014 03:48 pm

You might. Others might not. An Atom desktop is how much, versus a
system that's already built and paid for.

$99

..owned.


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■ Synchronet ■ Shodan's Core - shodan.synchro.net:23 & :2323

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Poindexter Fortran to Android8675 on Tue Apr 01 2014 10:29 pm

I did that with a Ubuntu VM I'm testing my BBS on - no graphical login screen, just the plain old login: prompt. Want a window manager? Type startx. Don't? That's OK, too.

stupid question, because for as long as I've been a Linux tinkerer I still can't figure out how to reconfigure my system often, but how would you add the graphical login if your system is setup without that login? Kindda wanna make it startup with Fluxbox now. Suggestions?


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■ Synchronet ■ Shodan's Core - shodan.synchro.net:23 & :2323

Hello Android8675,

On 02 Apr 14 15:58, Android8675 wrote to Poindexter Fortran:

stupid question, because for as long as I've been a Linux tinkerer I
still can't figure out how to reconfigure my system often, but how
would you add the graphical login if your system is setup without that login? Kindda wanna make it startup with Fluxbox now. Suggestions?

If it was debian you are using:

sudo apt-get install fluxbox

.. should do the trick. It should pull all dependencies in with it (including xorg).

Regards,
Nick

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130910
* Origin: Dark Sorrow | darksorrow.us (723:1/701)
■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)

Re: Netscape
By: Nicholas Boel to Android8675 on Wed Apr 02 2014 10:17 pm

If it was debian you are using:
sudo apt-get install fluxbox
.. should do the trick. It should pull all dependencies in with it (including xorg).

Nope, had to install fluxbox then xorg separatly. Probably because I pulled from deaddrop, or whatever that "dead" repository thing is. For some reason they had a more up to date package vs. what was on the official debian repo.

You also misread my post, I already have Fluxbox working, but I was wondering how to switch debian from the non-windows login text prompt to starting fluxbox on boot and logging in there.


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■ Synchronet ■ Shodan's Core - shodan.synchro.net:23 & :2323

Dreamer wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-

I used it for a while with a little USB flash drive, but I wasn't comfortable with that, and finally settled on a small 256MB VPS.

Those are tempting. I'd love to have a box sitting in someone else's co-lo again. Ah, those days of my youth when I could drop a box off at my
company's co-lo... :)



... Discard an axiom
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Android8675 wrote to Deuce <=-

You might. Others might not. An Atom desktop is how much, versus a
system that's already built and paid for.

$99

..owned.

I'll run a working system until it burns itself into a molten pile of slag,
or hand it off to someone who can use it before letting a working system
sit somewhere - or e-waste it.

We throw away so much electronic crap, and so much stuff is made nowadays
to be disposable.



... Powered By Celeron (Tualatin). Engineered for the future.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Hello Android8675,

On 03 Apr 14 07:49, Android8675 wrote to Nicholas Boel:

If it was debian you are using:
sudo apt-get install fluxbox
.. should do the trick. It should pull all dependencies in with
it (including xorg).

Nope, had to install fluxbox then xorg separatly. Probably because I pulled from deaddrop, or whatever that "dead" repository thing is. For some reason they had a more up to date package vs. what was on the official debian repo.

Ah. That's probably because the debian repository deals with stable software, while other repositories are usually either forks of that software, or stuff still in alpha stages, IIRC.

You also misread my post, I already have Fluxbox working, but I was wondering how to switch debian from the non-windows login text prompt
to starting fluxbox on boot and logging in there.

Apparantly, I did. In that case:

sudo apt-get install xdm

After that, edit /etc/rc.conf and change the variable XSESSION to:

XSESSION="fluxbox"

Then reboot. This should log you into fluxbox the next time you reboot.

Another way would be to create a .xsession file in the home directory of the user you want it to boot into Fluxbox for. In that file, put:

exec startfluxbox

Then reboot and it should load up. At least that's what I got out of the XDM sections at:

https://wiki.debian.org/FluxBox#XDM
http://fluxbox-wiki.org/index.php?title=XDM

Hopefully one of those methods work for you. :)

Regards,
Nick

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130910
* Origin: Dark Sorrow | darksorrow.us (723:1/701)
■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Poindexter Fortran to Android8675 on Thu Apr 03 2014 12:08 pm

$99

..owned.

I'll run a working system until it burns itself into a molten pile of slag, or hand it off to someone who can use it before letting a working system sit somewhere - or e-waste it.

We throw away so much electronic crap, and so much stuff is made nowadays to be disposable.

Awww, was just teasing. :) I have old SCSI HDDs from my Atari's that I can't bare (bear?) to part with.

I really wonder what the hell happens to all the CRTs out there, TVs get replaced like every 5 years now a days (for those of us who love our HDTVs, talk about waste. I can't give away our old DLP standard def TV. My buddy still has his old 3 gun projector TV (had the 3 big color guns that bounced each color off a mear onto a curved white projector screen. thing was like tank sized. Still works apparently.


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■ Synchronet ■ Shodan's Core - shodan.synchro.net:23 & :2323

Re: Netscape
By: Nicholas Boel to Android8675 on Thu Apr 03 2014 03:19 pm

You also misread my post, I already have Fluxbox working, but I was
wondering how to switch debian from the non-windows login text
prompt to starting fluxbox on boot and logging in there.

Apparantly, I did. In that case:

sudo apt-get install xdm

After that, edit /etc/rc.conf and change the variable XSESSION to:

XSESSION="fluxbox"

Then reboot. This should log you into fluxbox the next time you reboot.

MY HEEEEERRRRROOOOO!

Gonna go do it in a moment, doing some finances at the moment!

-A.


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■ Synchronet ■ Shodan's Core - shodan.synchro.net:23 & :2323

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Android8675 to Poindexter Fortran on Sat Apr 05 2014 10:30:28

I really wonder what the hell happens to all the CRTs out there, TVs get replaced like every 5 years now a days (for those of us who love our HDTVs, talk about waste. I can't give away our old DLP standard def TV. My buddy still
has his old 3 gun projector TV (had the 3 big color guns that bounced each color off a mear onto a curved white projector screen. thing was like tank sized. Still works apparently.

I don't know about most of them, but I know that I need a bunch more for the vacuum tubes, transformers, and one other component that I haven't
had enough coffee to remember off the top of my head just yet. ;)


-- guh up the effbomb down wif yr bad self


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■ Synchronet ■ Tinfoil Tetrahedron BBS telnet://bismaninfo.hopto.org:8023/ 1:282/1057

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Mr. Cool to HusTler on Wed Apr 02 2014 21:08:10

Unity is actually based on Gnome 2.x. It's nice if your machine has the pow

er

to run it. Xubuntu however is the perfect balance between a light and functional desktop envinroment. It is very customizable and even can look j

ust

as nice as a fancier desktop.

Thanks for the input. I've tried Unity, Gnome 3 and Xubunti. I'm not completely sold on any of them just yet. I'm dual booting with Windows 7. I've been using Windows for so long I'm not ready to give it up just yet. The last time I dual booted was when I used OS2 and windows. I wanted OS2 to be my main OS but when COMPUSA pulled the OS2 software off the shelf I knew if was over. I doubt we'll see the same thing happen to any of the LINUX OS. I'd like to see it out do MS for just a year. ;-)

|03Hus|07T|04ler

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Poindexter Fortran to Android8675 on Thu Apr 03 2014 12:08:00

I'll run a working system until it burns itself into a molten pile of slag, or hand it off to someone who can use it before letting a working system
sit somewhere - or e-waste it.

We throw away so much electronic crap, and so much stuff is made nowadays
to be disposable.

If buying new is not going to cost much more then getting it fixed, I'd rather buy new. The industry seems to be set up that way.

HusTler

Re: Re: Netscape
By: HusTler to Poindexter Fortran on Sun Apr 06 2014 12:32 pm

I'll run a working system until it burns itself into a molten pile of slag, or hand it off to someone who can use it before letting a working system sit somewhere - or e-waste it.

We throw away so much electronic crap, and so much stuff is made
nowadays to be disposable.

If buying new is not going to cost much more then getting it fixed, I'd rather buy new. The industry seems to be set up that way.

when i encounter a situation where i can spend a whole day working on something, or save myself a lot of time now and in the long run by purchasing new hardware, i go for the new hardware.

life is short and time is money.
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■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Netscape
By: HusTler to Mr. Cool on Sun Apr 06 2014 12:20:44

Thanks for the input. I've tried Unity, Gnome 3 and Xubunti. I'm not complet sold on any of them just yet. I'm dual booting with Windows 7. I've been usi Windows for so long I'm not ready to give it up just yet. The last time I du booted was when I used OS2 and windows. I wanted OS2 to be my main OS but wh COMPUSA pulled the OS2 software off the shelf I knew if was over. I doubt we see the same thing happen to any of the LINUX OS. I'd like to see it out do for just a year. ;-)

With Windows8.1 the way it is there's a good change Linux will get more desktops, I'm running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on mine right now (Lenovo) using it off an external USB drive. Works fine that way, just a little slow at startup. The external drive is default so it runs Ubuntu most of the time. Windows8.1 isn't really all that useful at the moment.

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■ Synchronet ■ fatcats bbs - fatcatsbbs.com

Re: Re: Netscape
By: bcw142 to HusTler on Mon Apr 07 2014 04:14 pm

Re: Re: Netscape
By: HusTler to Mr. Cool on Sun Apr 06 2014 12:20:44

Thanks for the input. I've tried Unity, Gnome 3 and Xubunti. I'm not complet sold on any of them just yet. I'm dual booting with Windows 7. I've been usi Windows for so long I'm not ready to give it up just yet. The last time I du booted was when I used OS2 and windows. I wanted OS2 to be my main OS but wh COMPUSA pulled the OS2 software off the shelf I knew if was over. I doubt we see the same thing happen to any of the LINUX OS. I'd like to see it out do for just a year. ;-)

With Windows8.1 the way it is there's a good change Linux will get more desktops, I'm running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on mine right now (Lenovo) using it off an external USB drive. Works fine that way, just a little slow at startup. The external drive is default so it runs Ubuntu most of the time. Windows8.1 isn't really all that useful at the moment.

why dont you just run windows 7? that's a decent os.
i'm not a fan of ubuntu's GUI. or many linux gui's actually. there's nothing to keep me there. i'd rather run windows than a windows clone. when i need something done in linux i just ssh into a linux box.
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■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Mro to bcw142 on Mon Apr 07 2014 04:15 pm

why dont you just run windows 7? that's a decent os. i'm not a fan
of ubuntu's GUI. or many linux gui's actually. there's nothing keep
me there. i'd rather run windows than a windows clone. when i need something done in linux i just ssh into a linux box.

Windows 7 is a decent OS and I've been using Microsoft OS and software
since Windows 3.1. I just want to learn a new OS. I have 3 android devices that was dirt cheap but never use. I have 2 netbooks with windows 7 on them. So I'm ready to explore another OS. I worked for an IP in the early 90's and all the machines were UNIX. I've always wanted to dive into linux but PC's were so expensive who could change OS's? Now you can get an atom 1.6 ghz and with a meg of ram for $75 bucks used.(I did anyway) The only machine I will probably never own is a new apple. I still don't think they can justifiy
there prices but what do I know. I'm just a throw back from the 70's.

Sorry the rant. I just felt like jumping in.

HusTler


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■ Synchronet ■ The X-BIT BBS * http://x-bit.org * http://x-bit.org/777.htm

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Mro to bcw142 on Mon Apr 07 2014 16:15:32

With Windows8.1 the way it is there's a good change Linux will get more desktops, I'm running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on mine right now (Lenovo) using i off an external USB drive. Works fine that way, just a little slow at

why dont you just run windows 7? that's a decent os.

I don't own Windows7 that's why. I do run 1 of 6 desktops on the Linux machine, Linux doesn't really tie you to just one desktop interface. I rarely use Unity (the Ubuntu default).

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■ Synchronet ■ fatcats bbs - fatcatsbbs.com

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Hustler to Mro on Tue Apr 08 2014 01:24 pm

why dont you just run windows 7? that's a decent os. i'm not a fan
of ubuntu's GUI. or many linux gui's actually. there's nothing keep
me there. i'd rather run windows than a windows clone. when i need
something done in linux i just ssh into a linux box.

Windows 7 is a decent OS and I've been using Microsoft OS and software
since Windows 3.1. I just want to learn a new OS. I have 3 android
devices that was dirt cheap but never use. I have 2 netbooks with
windows 7 on them. So I'm ready to explore another OS. I worked for an
IP in the early 90's and all the machines were UNIX. I've always wanted
to dive into linux but PC's were so expensive who could change OS's? Now
you can get an atom 1.6 ghz and with a meg of ram for $75 bucks used.(I
did anyway) The only machine I will probably never own is a new apple. I
still don't think they can justifiy there prices but what do I know. I'm
just a throw back from the 70's.

I have high hopes that Valve is going to really push people towards Linux for gaming (SteamOS), at that time I might setup a system with Linux as my primary, but in the meantime Debian runs great on Virtualbox. VMs are great for learning because you can save your state before making big changes and if you mess up you can just back up a bit.

I've been dabbling with linux since like Red Hat 3
I think, I find it's easy to setup, but difficult to make adjustments, Sometimes...

Apples are ok hardware in pretty cases. I have my father-in-law's old G5 Powermac, thing is awesome to look at. He uses his mac's for music (Jazz mostly).


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■ Synchronet ■ Shodan's Core - shodan.synchro.net:23 & :2323

Re: Re: Netscape
By: bcw142 to Mro on Wed Apr 09 2014 06:30 pm

why dont you just run windows 7? that's a decent os.

I don't own Windows7 that's why. I do run 1 of 6 desktops on the Linux machine, Linux doesn't really tie you to just one desktop interface. I rarely use Unity (the Ubuntu default).

just download it.
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■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Poindexter Fortran to Android8675 on Tue Apr 01 2014 10:29 pm

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Android8675 to Poindexter Fortran on Tue Apr 01 2014 11:11 am

I have a VM running Debian 7.4 (Wheezy) with no window manager, decided

I

wanted something simple, setup Fluxbox with xorg, was pretty easy to setup, pretty simple, no frills, I suspect it uses little ram, loads in

a

heartbeat. You can probably start with any base distro, install just th

e

bare essentials then add an x server and window manager of your choosin

g.

I did that with a Ubuntu VM I'm testing my BBS on - no graphical login scree

n,

just the plain old login: prompt. Want a window manager? Type startx. Don't? That's OK, too.

Speaking of Ubuntu and Synchronet, I whipped up an installation script yesterday.

http://phunc.com/synchronet/install_sbbs.sh

It only supports Ubuntu 13.10 at the moment. I'll probably expand it to other versions, distros, and CLI flags later. Mainly did it because I needed it.

Knight

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■ Synchronet ■ The Phunc BBS -- Back from the dead!

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Knight to Poindexter Fortran on Sun Apr 13 2014 05:31:10

Speaking of Ubuntu and Synchronet, I whipped up an installation script yesterday.

http://phunc.com/synchronet/install_sbbs.sh

It only supports Ubuntu 13.10 at the moment. I'll probably expand it to othe versions, distros, and CLI flags later. Mainly did it because I needed it.

Well damn, son, that's not too far away from being able to just
offer a binary package for it, is it? That'd be pretty friggin' cool. ;)

-- guh up the effbomb down wif yr bad self


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■ Synchronet ■ Tinfoil Tetrahedron BBS telnet://bismaninfo.hopto.org:8023/ 1:282/1057

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Khelair to Knight on Sun Apr 13 2014 08:58 am

Re: Re: Netscape
By: Knight to Poindexter Fortran on Sun Apr 13 2014 05:31:10

Speaking of Ubuntu and Synchronet, I whipped up an installation script yesterday.

http://phunc.com/synchronet/install_sbbs.sh

It only supports Ubuntu 13.10 at the moment. I'll probably expand it to o

the

versions, distros, and CLI flags later. Mainly did it because I needed it

.

Well damn, son, that's not too far away from being able to just
offer a binary package for it, is it? That'd be pretty friggin' cool. ;)

-- guh up the effbomb down wif yr bad self

Don't tempt me, I might actually do it. :)
Knight

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■ Synchronet ■ The Phunc BBS -- Back from the dead!

Re: Re: Netscape
By: KF5QEO to HusTler on Thu Feb 27 2014 11:40 pm

Re: Re: Netscape
By: HusTler to Dreamer on Wed Feb 19 2014 22:28:10

Communicator? Now there's a blast from the past. I still don't get Netscape was abandoned and FIREFOX took its place.

That's a sore subject with me! When I signed up with a company that had dial-up internet, I had to buy netscape to connect with them. Now the ver
I bought wasn't in, they said it'd be in in a week or so. It came in, I p it up and he said that now, it's kinda obsolete, because Internet Explorer could be downloaded for free with a dialer that made netscape useless. No didn't refund my money I forked out on Netscape, didn't offer to give me a of Explorer for free, etc. A week later, Netscape announced it was now completely free! About a year later, that company was bought out by anoth company, and shortly afterwards it went out of business completely.

At the time a thought Netscape was the best! I did abandon it once they started charging for it. ;-)

HusTler

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