Hello All,

when using Fido today I regularly hit the wall when I notice that I would like to *attach at least a picture* to illustrate something. Also, people keep sendig me fido messages that refer to pictures put on their web space. This feels odd.

Also, the current practice for *text styles is limited* in application and not well-defined. Still, this seems to be the minor of the two issues.

I think this is really something that could/should be addressed in some way to enable relevant contemporary communication through fido.

To adress this, I see _at least_ two options:

1) Do it fully email-style by using MIME with HTML text and embedded/referenced
pictures. This will be a lot to implement and particularly difficult to
handle in 16-Bit software due to memory restrictions and lack of frameworks.
Also, memory comes to mind when considering the size of the resulting
messages. Using @SPLIT, these could be extended beyound 63k, but the
resulting messages might be considered an annoyance.
2) Define a simple fidonet-compatible way that is more in line with existing
fido technology (particularly a maximum message length of 63k) but still
enables including at least a picture and maybe simple text styles while
maintaining readability on non-compatible systems.

I find both alternatives interesting, but currently I prefer the latter with a focus on embedding the picture. The idea would by to have something that is more like the ability to post a picture on social media platforms. So instead of providing half a text processor for creating formatted text, people can just include the picture with their fidonet mail and ideally the editor will recompress the picture as needed to a jpg to limit the resuling message size including the encoding picture to 63k.

My idea for the latter would be to include the .jpg as Base64 and add a kludge to it for inline-display. This could also be done for multiple images.

An alternative would be including a link to the picture like we do today, but enabling the reader to automatically download such pictures and maybe include automated upload/linking of the image in the editor. However, that would be quite dependent on other services.

*What do you think?*

Regards,
Tim
--- WinPoint 398.3
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:240/1120.29)

On 10 Feb 22 14:42:03, Tim Schattkowsky said the following to All:

*What do you think?*

Slap something together and show proof of concept.

If others like it, they will adopt it.

Then the FTSC may document it.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Tim,

*What do you think?*

The only kind of renewal in Fidonet has only come from individual people with an idea, a concept of something lightyears away.

Just go for it, do something and if it's workable and appealing then a number of the current still live developers will include it.

Do not believe in the collaborative effort to get things done ... it never has ... in IT.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Feb 05 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

//Hello Ward,//

on *10.02.22* at *14:07:34* You wrote in Area *FTSC_PUBLIC*
to *Tim Schattkowsky* about *"Re: Enabling embedded pictures in Messages"*.

The only kind of renewal in Fidonet has only come from individual people with an idea, a concept of something lightyears away.

Just go for it, do something and if it's workable and appealing then a number of the current still live developers will include it.

Ok, sounds familiar.

Do not believe in the collaborative effort to get things done ... it
never has ... in IT.

I have spent some time working with various industry standardization bodies. It is even more scary when you see them arguing what should be in the standards why ... Explains a lot!

Regards,
Tim
--- WinPoint 398.3
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:240/1120.29)

Tim,

Do not believe in the collaborative effort to get things done ... it TS>WD> never has ... in IT.

I have spent some time working with various industry standardization bodies. It is even more scary when you see them arguing what should be in the standards why ... Explains a lot!

When I went to college for mu IT-degree, many many moons ago, we were encouraged by the higher-up faculty members to program in teams ... several people working on the same code ... because that would be the reality in our jobs ... so I was bothered by teammembers who couldn't keep pace and slowed me down ... it nearly cost me my degree.

Here's another of Dossche's Laws ... "Never encapsulate talent and impose limits on it as it will yield inferior results. Let it grow and develop along its own path and time track"

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Feb 05 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Good ${greeting_time}, Tim!

10 Feb 2022 14:42:02, you wrote to All:

when using Fido today I regularly hit the wall when I notice that I
would like to *attach at least a picture* to illustrate something.
Also, people keep sendig me fido messages that refer to pictures put
on their web space. This feels odd.

Look how does HotdogEd deal with that.


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)

Re: Enabling embedded pictures in Messages
By: Tim Schattkowsky to All on Thu Feb 10 2022 02:42 pm

Also, the current practice for *text styles is limited* in application and not well-defined. Still, this seems to be the minor of the two issues.

Synchronet supports a commonly-recognized markup/style syntax in message bases: http://wiki.synchro.net/ref:markup
--
digital man (rob)

Sling Blade quote #26:
Karl: kaiser blade, ax handle with long blade on it shaped kinda like a banana. Norco, CA WX: 70.5°F, 27.0% humidity, 2 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

when using Fido today I regularly hit the wall when I notice that
I would like to *attach at least a picture* to illustrate
something. Also, people keep sendig me fido messages that refer
to pictures put on their web space. This feels odd.

Look how does HotdogEd deal with that.

Precissely yesterday I tested this. I inserted an UUencoded image in a message with WinPoint, and HotdogEd displayed it as an inline image just fine.

Carlos
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: Costa Blanca, Spain (2:341/234.12)

Hello Tim!

*** Thursday 10.02.22 at 13:42:03, Tim Schattkowsky wrote to All:

when using Fido today I regularly hit the wall when I notice that I would like to attach at least a picture to illustrate something.

Yep, same here.

[snip]

What do you think?

Go for it! :)

Regards,
Martin
--- WinPoint 398.2
* Origin: Bitz-Box - Bradford - UK (2:280/464.27)

//Hello Rob,//

on *11.02.2022* at *4:26:50* You wrote in Area *FTSC_PUBLIC*
to *Tim Schattkowsky* about *"Enabling embedded pictures in Messages"*.

Synchronet supports a commonly-recognized markup/style syntax in message bases: http://wiki.synchro.net/ref:markup

A more relaxed version of this (excluding inverse) is already supported by WP. However, there are loads of limitations of that approach.

Regards,
Tim
--- WinPoint 398.3
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:240/1120.29)

Hello Carlos!

11 Feb 22 06:52, you wrote to Alexey Vissarionov:

Precissely yesterday I tested this. I inserted an UUencoded image in a message with WinPoint, and HotdogEd displayed it as an inline image
just fine.

I've used UUencoding for years now for putting images or compressed archives inside of a message.

-- Sean

... Three can keep a secret if two are dead.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Outpost BBS Local Console (1:18/200)

12 Feb 2022 16:08, you wrote to me:

Precissely yesterday I tested this. I inserted an UUencoded image
in a message with WinPoint, and HotdogEd displayed it as an
inline image just fine.

I've used UUencoding for years now for putting images or compressed archives inside of a message.

Of course...

But does your reader show the images inline?

Carlos
--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Costa Blanca, Spain (2:341/234)

Hello Carlos,

13 Feb 22 12:20, you wrote to me:

But does your reader show the images inline?

No but that's not an issue for me. If I wish to view an image that I've downloaded via FTN, I just view it via SSH (SFTP) on my personal desktop using feh (a command line image viewer).

-- Sean

... I've had a wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Outpost BBS Local Console (1:18/200)

Re: Enabling embedded pictures in Messages
By: Tim Schattkowsky to All on Thu Feb 10 2022 02:42 pm

Hello All,

when using Fido today I regularly hit the wall when I notice that I would li to *attach at least a picture* to illustrate something. Also, people keep sendig me fido messages that refer to pictures put on their web space. This feels odd.

Also, the current practice for *text styles is limited* in application and n well-defined. Still, this seems to be the minor of the two issues.

I think this is really something that could/should be addressed in some way enable relevant contemporary communication through fido.

To adress this, I see _at least_ two options:

1) Do it fully email-style by using MIME with HTML text and embedded/referen
pictures. This will be a lot to implement and particularly difficult to
handle in 16-Bit software due to memory restrictions and lack of framewor
Also, memory comes to mind when considering the size of the resulting
messages. Using @SPLIT, these could be extended beyound 63k, but the
resulting messages might be considered an annoyance.
2) Define a simple fidonet-compatible way that is more in line with existing
fido technology (particularly a maximum message length of 63k) but still
enables including at least a picture and maybe simple text styles while
maintaining readability on non-compatible systems.

I find both alternatives interesting, but currently I prefer the latter with focus on embedding the picture. The idea would by to have something that is more like the ability to post a picture on social media platforms. So instea of providing half a text processor for creating formatted text, people can j include the picture with their fidonet mail and ideally the editor will recompress the picture as needed to a jpg to limit the resuling message size including the encoding picture to 63k.

My idea for the latter would be to include the .jpg as Base64 and add a klud to it for inline-display. This could also be done for multiple images.

An alternative would be including a link to the picture like we do today, bu enabling the reader to automatically download such pictures and maybe includ automated upload/linking of the image in the editor. However, that would be quite dependent on other services.

*What do you think?*

Regards,
Tim

Tim, I like the last one. An OLR that would then include the picture from a posted link, if I follow you right.

xxcarol
--- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)

Hello Carol Shenkenberger!

** On Saturday 05.03.22 - 15:47, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Tim Schattkowsky:

My idea for the latter would be to include the .jpg as Base64 and add a
klud to it for inline-display. This could also be done for multiple
images.

An alternative would be including a link to the picture like we do today,
bu enabling the reader to automatically download such pictures and maybe
includ automated upload/linking of the image in the editor. However, that
would be quite dependent on other services.

*What do you think?*

Regards,
Tim

Tim, I like the last one. An OLR that would then include the picture
from a posted link, if I follow you right.

As a person who has a limited amount of data per month with
mobile data, I would not appreciate an influx of .jpg data in
the mix. A hot link to serve the intended image at the bbs
node or an agreed upon central node would be better.

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)