Hey Serak!

I had to upgrade 'trans' to make this work. As of this post it is 0.9.7.1-release.

:read !trans -list-all | sed 's/^/ trans> /'
trans> af Afrikaans Afrikaans
trans> sq Albanian Shqip
trans> am Amharic አማርኛ
trans> ar Arabic ﺔﻴﺑﺮﻌﻟﺍ
trans> hy Armenian Հայերեն
trans> as Assamese অসমীয়া
trans> ay Aymara Aymar aru
trans> az Azerbaijani Azərbaycanca
trans> bm Bambara Bamanankan
trans> ba Bashkir Башҡортса
trans> eu Basque Euskara
trans> be Belarusian беларуская
trans> bn Bengali বাংলা
trans> bho Bhojpuri भोजपुरी
trans> bs Bosnian Bosanski
trans> bg Bulgarian български
trans> yue Cantonese 粵語
trans> ca Catalan Català
trans> ceb Cebuano Cebuano
trans> ny Chichewa Nyanja
trans> lzh Chinese (Literary) 文言
trans> zh-CN Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文
trans> zh-TW Chinese (Traditional) 繁體中文
trans> cv Chuvash Чӑвашла
trans> co Corsican Corsu
trans> hr Croatian Hrvatski
trans> cs Czech Čeština
trans> da Danish Dansk
trans> prs Dari ﯼﺭﺩ
trans> dv Dhivehi ހިވެދި
trans> doi Dogri डोगरी
trans> nl Dutch Nederlands
trans> mhr Eastern Mari Олык марий
trans> en English English
trans> eo Esperanto Esperanto
trans> et Estonian Eesti
trans> ee Ewe Eʋegbe
trans> fo Faroese Føroyskt
trans> fj Fijian Vosa Vakaviti
trans> tl Filipino Filipino
trans> fi Finnish Suomi
trans> fr French Français
trans> fr-CA French (Canadian) Français canadien
trans> fy Frisian Frysk
trans> gl Galician Galego
trans> ka Georgian ქართული
trans> de German Deutsch
trans> el Greek Ελληνικά
trans> gn Guarani Avañe'ẽ
trans> gu Gujarati ગુજરાતી
trans> ht Haitian Creole Kreyòl Ayisyen
trans> ha Hausa Hausa
trans> haw Hawaiian ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi
trans> he Hebrew תירִבְעִ
trans> mrj Hill Mari Кырык мары
trans> hi Hindi हिन्दी
trans> hmn Hmong Hmoob
trans> hu Hungarian Magyar
trans> is Icelandic Íslenska
trans> ig Igbo Igbo
trans> ilo Ilocano Ilokano
trans> id Indonesian Bahasa Indonesia
trans> ikt Inuinnaqtun Inuinnaqtun
trans> iu Inuktitut ᐃᓄᒃᑎᑐᑦ
trans> iu-Latn Inuktitut (Latin) Inuktitut
trans> ga Irish Gaeilge
trans> it Italian Italiano
trans> ja Japanese 日本語
trans> jv Javanese Basa Jawa
trans> kn Kannada ಕನ್ನಡ
trans> kk Kazakh Қазақ тілі
trans> km Khmer ភាសាខ្មែរ
trans> rw Kinyarwanda Ikinyarwanda
trans> tlh-Latn Klingon tlhIngan Hol
trans> gom Konkani कोंकणी
trans> ko Korean 한국어
trans> kri Krio Krio
trans> ckb Kurdish (Central) ﯽﻧﺍﺭﯚﺳ
trans> ku Kurdish (Northern) Kurmancî
trans> ky Kyrgyz Кыргызча
trans> lo Lao ລາວ
trans> la Latin Latina
trans> lv Latvian Latviešu
trans> ln Lingala Lingála
trans> lt Lithuanian Lietuvių
trans> lg Luganda Luganda
trans> lb Luxembourgish Lëtzebuergesch
trans> mk Macedonian Македонски
trans> mai Maithili मैथिली
trans> mg Malagasy Malagasy
trans> ms Malay Bahasa Melayu
trans> ml Malayalam മലയാളം
trans> mt Maltese Malti
trans> mi Maori Māori
trans> mr Marathi मराठी
trans> mni-Mtei Meiteilon ꯃꯤꯇꯩꯂꯣꯟ
trans> lus Mizo Mizo ṭawng
trans> mn Mongolian Монгол
trans> mn-Mong Mongolian (Traditional) ᠮᠣᠩᠭᠣᠯ
trans> my Myanmar မြန်မာစာ
trans> ne Nepali नेपाली
trans> no Norwegian Norsk
trans> or Odia ଓଡ଼ିଆ
trans> om Oromo Afaan Oromoo
trans> pap Papiamento Papiamentu
trans> ps Pashto ﻮﺘښﭘ
trans> fa Persian ﯽﺳﺭﺎﻓ
trans> pl Polish Polski
trans> pt-BR Portuguese (Brazilian) Português Brasileiro
trans> pt-PT Portuguese (European) Português Europeu
trans> pa Punjabi ਪੰਜਾਬੀ
trans> qu Quechua Runasimi
trans> otq Querétaro Otomi Hñąñho
trans> ro Romanian Română
trans> ru Russian Русский
trans> sm Samoan Gagana Sāmoa
trans> sa Sanskrit संस्कृतम्
trans> gd Scots Gaelic Gàidhlig
trans> nso Sepedi Sepedi
trans> sr-Cyrl Serbian (Cyrillic) Српски
trans> sr-Latn Serbian (Latin) Srpski
trans> st Sesotho Sesotho
trans> sn Shona chiShona
trans> sd Sindhi ﻱﮅﻨﺳ
trans> si Sinhala සිංහල
trans> sk Slovak Slovenčina
trans> sl Slovenian Slovenščina
trans> so Somali Soomaali
trans> es Spanish Español
trans> su Sundanese Basa Sunda
trans> sw Swahili Kiswahili
trans> sv Swedish Svenska
trans> ty Tahitian Reo Tahiti
trans> tg Tajik Тоҷикӣ
trans> ta Tamil தமிழ்
trans> tt Tatar татарча
trans> te Telugu తెలుగు
trans> th Thai ไทย
trans> bo Tibetan བོད་ཡིག
trans> ti Tigrinya ትግርኛ
trans> to Tongan Lea faka-Tonga
trans> ts Tsonga Xitsonga
trans> tr Turkish Türkçe
trans> tk Turkmen Türkmen
trans> tw Twi Twi
trans> udm Udmurt Удмурт
trans> uk Ukrainian Українська
trans> hsb Upper Sorbian Hornjoserbšćina
trans> ur Urdu ﻭﺩُﺭﺍُ
trans> ug Uyghur ﻰﻠﯩﺗ ﺭﯘﻐﻳﯘﺋ
trans> uz Uzbek Oʻzbek tili
trans> vi Vietnamese Tiếng Việt
trans> cy Welsh Cymraeg
trans> xh Xhosa isiXhosa
trans> sah Yakut Sakha
trans> yi Yiddish שידיִי
trans> yo Yoruba Yorùbá
trans> yua Yucatec Maya Màaya T'àan
trans> zu Zulu isiZulu

Life is good,
Maurice

-o o- o- o- -o -o o- o- o- -o -o -o o- -o o- -o
(\ /) /) /) (\ (\ /) /) /) (\ (\ (\ /) (\ /) (\
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Maþþum oþres weorð, gold mon sceal gifan.
One treasure deserves another; gold should be given away.
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.25(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hej Maurice!

I had to upgrade 'trans' to make this work. As of this post it is 0.9.7.1-release.

Works for me although the msg header *NEEDS* a complete overhaul in order to properly count characters rather than bytes. Speaking for myself I see little to nothing in current standards worth salvaging.

Oh well, not my call thank goodness.

Het leven is goed,
Maurice

-o -o o- -o
(\ (\ /) (\
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
... Fidonet 1080p - De vier pinguïns van de Apocalyps
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.21(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint @ (2:280/464.113)

On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 03:54:58 GMT, Maurice Kinal -> Maurice Kinal wrote:

I had to upgrade 'trans' to make this work.  As of this post it is
0.9.7.1-release.

Works for me although the msg header *NEEDS* a complete overhaul in order to properly count characters rather than bytes.  Speaking for myself I see
little to nothing in current standards worth salvaging.

Oh well, not my call thank goodness.

Would you like another nomination to the FTSC so that everyone shuts down any attempt for you to make things better for today's standards again? :)

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hey Nicholas!

Would you like another nomination to the FTSC so that everyone
shuts down any attempt for you to make things better for today's
standards again? :)

I am not convinced it will make a difference but if nominated I would accept and continue to advocate for proper change(s). If not then I'll continue along the path I've been on since forever, no nomination required. :-)

Life is good,
Maurice

-o o- o- -o -o -o -o -o o- o- -o o- -o o- o- o-
(\ /) /) (\ (\ (\ (\ (\ /) /) (\ /) (\ /) /) /)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Weard seteð, se þe wæccendum wereð.
He who guards against the watchmen sets a guard.
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.25(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Nicholas Boel!

On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 03:54:58 GMT, Maurice Kinal -> Maurice

Kinal wrote:

Would you like another nomination to the FTSC so that everyone shuts down any attempt for you to make things better for today's standards again? :)

What has the current FTSC group accomplished since the last
election? If nothing changes, what's the point in having it?



--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.58
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

Hi August,

On 2024-02-24 09:44:00, you wrote to Nicholas Boel:

What has the current FTSC group accomplished since the last
election? If nothing changes, what's the point in having it?

It's not the FTSC's job to suggest changes. If you want changes, you have to implement them as a developper. And have other developpers follow your changes. If enough nodes start using those changes, it can be documented by the FTSC as current practice...


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.2.1.1
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hej Wilfred!

It's not the FTSC's job to suggest changes.

You've just pointed out the first required proper change.

If you want changes, you have to implement them as a developper.
And have other developpers follow your changes. If enough nodes
start using those changes, it can be documented by the FTSC as
current practice...

Near as I can tell that has never worked. Since the above ideaology has been forwarded, all that has been documented is total BS. I see some evidencc of this in your MSG body. ;-)

Het leven is goed,
Maurice

-o o- -o o-
(\ /) (\ /)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
... Fidonet 1080p - De vier pinguïns van de Apocalyps
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.21(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint @ (2:280/464.113)

Hello Wilfred van Velzen!

It's not the FTSC's job to suggest changes. If you want
changes, you have to implement them as a developper. And
have other developpers follow your changes. If enough
nodes start using those changes, it can be documented by
the FTSC as current practice...

But why the necessity of so many people overlooking practically
a non-event? Do, the members have a commitment to keep their
finger on the pulse where development is occurring?

I'd be at least somewhat impressed if the spelling and
grammatical mistakes in the existing documents were addressed.
;)

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.58
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

Hi August,

On 2024-02-24 18:00:00, you wrote to me:

It's not the FTSC's job to suggest changes. If you want
changes, you have to implement them as a developper. And
have other developpers follow your changes. If enough
nodes start using those changes, it can be documented by
the FTSC as current practice...

But why the necessity of so many people overlooking practically
a non-event? Do, the members have a commitment to keep their
finger on the pulse where development is occurring?

Don't ask me. Ask the FTSC. ;-)


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.2.1.1
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 15:44:00 -0500, August Abolins -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

What has the current FTSC group accomplished since the last
election?   If nothing changes, what's the point in having it?

If you re-read my message to Maurice, there was definitely some subtle sarcasm there. In fact, the *only* thing that has happened since the last election has been criticism against any new ideas and them being shut down so they don't have to do any actual work. :)

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hi Nicholas...

On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 15:44:00 -0500, August Abolins -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

What has the current FTSC group accomplished since the last
election?   If nothing changes, what's the point in having it?

If you re-read my message to Maurice, there was definitely some subtle sarcasm there. In fact, the *only* thing that has happened since the last election has been criticism against any new ideas and them being shut down so they don't have to do any actual work. :)
Regards,
Nick
... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."

I got the sarcasm. But then I was just wondering in general what they have actually done. Even fixing the spelling mistakes and grammatical errors and clarifying some of the tech lingo seems ripe for avoidance.

--
/|ug
https://t.me/aabolins

--- Want fido for iOS/MacOS/Android/Win/Linux? https://shrtco.de/tpJ9yV
* Origin: Fido by Telegram BBS from Stas Mishchenkov (2:460/256)

On Mon, 26 Feb 2024 01:03:50 +0300, Aug -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

I got the sarcasm. But then I was just wondering in general what they
have actually done. Even fixing the spelling mistakes and grammatical errors and clarifying some of the tech lingo seems ripe for avoidance.

Some just like the way the hat looks, it seems. :)

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hej Nicholas!

Some just like the way the hat looks, it seems. :)

I still think there should badges. :-)

Het leven is goed,
Maurice

o- -o o- o-
/) (\ /) /)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
... Fidonet 1080p - De vier pinguïns van de Apocalyps
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.21(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint @ (2:280/464.113)

Some just like the way the hat looks, it seems. :)

I still think there should badges. :-)

Perhaps a full uniform with boots is required.
--- AfterShock/Android 1.7.5
* Origin: Mobile Pixel 3aXL (2:221/1.59)

Hey August!

Perhaps a full uniform with boots is required.

Maybe next election. Besides boots in my size are really hard to find.

Life is good,
Maurice

o- o- -o -o o- o- o- o- -o -o -o -o -o o- -o o- /) /) (\ (\ /) /) /) /) (\ (\ (\ (\ (\ /) (\ /) ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Is seo forðgesceaft digol and dyrne; drihten ana wat.
The course of the future is hidden and secret; God alone knows.
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.25(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

On 25 Feb. 2024 18:47, you wrote to August:

Perhaps a full uniform with boots is required.

Maybe next election. Besides boots in my size are really hard to find.

Perhaps they can make an exception and let you wear open-toe boots or just sandals! ..as long as the color matches the official standard!!! :D
--- AfterShock/Android 1.7.5
* Origin: Mobile Pixel 3aXL (2:221/1.59)

Hej August!

Perhaps they can make an exception and let you wear open-toe boots
or just sandals!

I am holding out for red leather Cossack boots ... and speaking of hats, those puffy black wool ones you often see Cossacks wearing.

Het leven is goed,
Maurice

-o o- o- o-
(\ /) /) /)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
... Fidonet 1080p - De vier pinguïns van de Apocalyps
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.21(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint @ (2:280/464.113)

Hey Serak!

Here is a fine example of what would be a deal breaker to most. Me? You know better than that. Not only am I smart and good looking, I am made of tougher stuff than the typical nodlisted Fidonet sysop. :-)

<Esc>:read !trans -b -no-ansi -t he "To pronounce it correctly, I would have to pull out your tongue." | sed 's/^ *//'
.ךלש ןושלה תא ףולשל ךרטצא ,ןוכנ הז תא אטבל ידכ

Note that the above is Hebrew ... or should be ... and I took the liberty of stripping out the leading spaces since a 4k terminal results in a very long line as the first character will be displayed at the end of the line and the entire line will be vastly greater that what will fit into a Subject line.

As shown the Hebrew Subject line is exactly 46 utf-8 characters which *should* fit into a FTN Subject which can be up to 71 characters. However a byte count yeilds 82 bytes which the typical FTN abandonware will consider too long and chop off the last (actually first since Hebrew is read right to left) 12 bytes. Note I say bytes and not characters since DOS-think types cannot count straight, especially when they treat stings as numbers. Very sad.

So much for utf-8 and FTS-5003. As is that document is sadly lacking wrt utf-8 charcters and probably should have it's own documentation in order to escape crippleware developers.

Also there is no such thing as LATIN-1. It is the end result of some Gatesian nightmare you can never wake up from.

Life is good,
Maurice

o- -o o- o- -o o- o- o- -o -o -o -o o- o- o- o- /) (\ /) /) (\ /) /) /) (\ (\ (\ (\ /) /) /) /) ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Fidonet 4K - You load sixteen penguins and what do you get?
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.26(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: One of us @ (1:153/7001.2989)

On 28 Feb. 2024 01:17, you wrote to Serak:

<Esc>:read !trans -b -no-ansi -t he "To pronounce it correctly, I would have to pull out your tongue." | sed 's/^ *//' .?????? ?????????? ?ª?? ?£???????? ?????????? ,???????? ???? ?ª?? ???????? ??????

Sorry, but Aftershock had trouble with it.

So much for utf-8 and FTS-5003. As is that document is sadly lacking wrt utf-8 charcters and probably should have it's own documentation in order to escape crippleware developers.

I have no idea. But maybe the expectation of having utf-8 is overrated in this hobby network?



--- AfterShock/Android 1.7.5
* Origin: Mobile Pixel 3aXL (2:221/1.59)

Hej August!

maybe the expectation of having utf-8 is overrated in this hobby
network?

That is one way of looking at it. More reason it shouldn't be in that particular document.

Het leven is goed,
Maurice

-o o- -o o-
(\ /) (\ /)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
... Fidonet 1080p - De vier pinguïns van de Apocalyps
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.26(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint @ (2:280/464.113)

On Wed, 28 Feb 2024 01:17:42 GMT
"Maurice Kinal -> Serak the Preparer" <2989@7001.153.1> wrote:

<Esc>:read !trans -b -no-ansi -t he "To pronounce it correctly, I would have to pull out your tongue." | sed 's/^ *//'
.ךלש ןושלה תא ףולשל ךרטצא ,ןוכנ הז תא
אטבל ידכ

Note that the above is Hebrew ... or should be ... and I took the
liberty of stripping out the leading spaces since a 4k terminal results

The hebrew letters appear to be fine under my nntp read Sylpheed.

👍 +1

However, an nntp reader is outside the scope of what fidonet is.

As shown the Hebrew Subject line is exactly 46 utf-8 characters which *should* fit into a FTN Subject which can be up to 71 characters.
However a byte count yeilds 82 bytes which the typical FTN abandonware will consider too long and chop off the last (actually first since
Hebrew is read right to left) 12 bytes. Note I say bytes and not characters since DOS-think types cannot count straight, especially when they treat stings as numbers. Very sad.

Solution: FTS should limit utf-8 chars only to the message body only.

So much for utf-8 and FTS-5003. As is that document is sadly lacking
wrt utf-8 charcters and probably should have it's own documentation in order to escape crippleware developers.

I would tend to agree.

Anyhow.. it seems that utf-8 was "approved" without the evidence of ample usage of utf-8.

Also there is no such thing as LATIN-1. It is the end result of some Gatesian nightmare you can never wake up from.

No comment.

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Hey August!

.ךלש ןושלה תא ףולשל ךרטצא ,ןוכנ הז תא
אטבל ידכ

The hebrew letters appear to be fine under my nntp read Sylpheed.

Yes and no. Notice where it split the line. That is why I didn't use it as an actual Subject and kept it in the msg_body just to ensure it would be lossless. It's one thing to strip off characters at the end of a line but when characters at the start of the line disappear, it make it more difficult to fill in the blanks.

However, an nntp reader is outside the scope of what fidonet is.

Agreed, and that is a good thing methinks. I've always disliked newsgroups.

Solution: FTS should limit utf-8 chars only to the message body
only.

That appears to be the case. So far I seem to be the only one who has a half-assed handle on this obvious problem.

it seems that utf-8 was "approved" without the evidence of ample
usage of utf-8.

More reason NOT to let developers lead the standardization process, nevermind the users of their apps. There is definetly a confict of interest, nevermind the ones who are clueless as to how things REALLY work.

No comment.

Heh, heh. This shouldn't be political.

Life is good,
Maurice

-o o- -o o- o- o- -o o- o- o- o- o- o- o- -o -o
(\ /) (\ /) /) /) (\ /) /) /) /) /) /) /) (\ (\
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Fidonet 4K - Sweet Sixteen Penguins of the Apocalypse.
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.26(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: One of us @ (1:153/7001.2989)

On 29 Feb. 2024 00:09, you wrote to August:

More reason NOT to let developers lead the standardization process,
nevermind the users of their apps. There is definetly a confict of interest, nevermind the ones who are clueless as to how things REALLY work.

Are you familiar with the UTF-8 echo? Perhaps it was set up to help promote utf-8 inclusion and use. But the chars get little to low use overall - that is why I'm surprised that utf-8 was included in a standard.

Yeah.. double-standards and inconsistency never seems to escape the ones wearing the hats. :D
--- AfterShock/Android 1.7.5
* Origin: Mobile Pixel 3aXL (2:221/1.59)

Hey August!

Are you familiar with the UTF-8 echo?

Yes I was aware of it.

Perhaps it was set up to help promote utf-8 inclusion and use.

That sounds reasonable.

Life is good,
Maurice

o- o- -o -o -o o- -o o- o- o- -o -o -o -o -o o- /) /) (\ (\ (\ /) (\ /) /) /) (\ (\ (\ (\ (\ /) ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Fidonet 4K - You load sixteen penguins and what do you get?
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.26(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: One of us @ (1:153/7001.2989)