Hi All,

I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great, except that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

https://ibb.co/Nn7sQCM

Does anyone have any pointers on how to make that display properly? I'm SSH'ing into Ubuntu 22.04 (64 bit) on a VPS.


Jay

... Did you hear about the guy who tried to grab fog? He mist
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20231112
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110.1)

Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
By: Warpslide to All on Mon Dec 11 2023 10:11 pm

Howdy,

I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great, except that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

https://ibb.co/Nn7sQCM

This may be a kludge CHRS related issue - or that golded cant display high ansi?

On other messages (I guess in the ADS echo), does it show high ansi?

(I recall that when messages have "UTF-8 4", depending on the reader high ansi messages dont display well - but havent looked further than that.)

When clrghouz responds to a message, I re-use the CHRS kludge that the original message came with. (Since I display the original message with some additional (high) ansi chars - I've assumed this would be OK.) If the original message doesnt come with a CHRS kludge, I use "CP437 2".



...δεσ∩
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
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Hello Warpslide!

11 Dec 23 22:11, you wrote to all:

I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great, except
that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

This will do what you want. (I use it here)

https://github.com/keaston/cp437



Vorlon


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20231021
* Origin: Dragon's Lair ---:- dragon.vk3heg.net -:--- Prt: 6800 (21:1/195)

Hello Warpslide,

On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 04:11:00 -0500, you wrote:

Hi All,

I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great, except that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

https://ibb.co/Nn7sQCM

Does anyone have any pointers on how to make that display properly? I'm SSH'ing into Ubuntu 22.04 (64 bit) on a VPS.

1) Golded doesn't support ANSI codes, so ANSI looks like completely garbage regardless what you try.

2) Golded doesn't support anything past the first 256 characters in the translation tables (.chs files). So this will result in some "high ascii" also not displaying properly.

It will show basic ASCII blocks/shades (uncolored), or anything covered in the first 256 characters of the CP437 charset, but nothing above and beyond that.

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)

Hello deon,

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 16:37:28 +1100, you wrote:

This may be a kludge CHRS related issue - or that golded cant display
high ansi?

Yes, both. ;)

(I recall that when messages have "UTF-8 4", depending on the reader
high ansi messages dont display well - but havent looked further than that.)

That's because ANSI should definitely not be posted with a "UTF-8 4" CHRS kludge. ANSI should be posted with a CP437 CHRS kludge. Most telnet/terminal programs default to CP437 *and* support ANSI. Golded only does one of the two (supports CP437, but doesn't support ANSI).

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)

Hello Vorlon,

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 17:06:06 +1100, you wrote:

I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great, except
that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

This will do what you want. (I use it here)

https://github.com/keaston/cp437

You use that with Golded and are able to see ANSI posted in message bases while in Golded?

I'd like to know more on how you do this. I just compiled it and tried:

cp437 gedlnx -C/path/to/config

It looked way worse than how I normally run Golded in tmux. My terminal is definitely UTF-8, with all the LANG and LC_* variables set. ;(

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)

On Wednesday December 13 2023, deon said the following...

I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great, except
that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

https://ibb.co/Nn7sQCM

This may be a kludge CHRS related issue - or that golded cant display
high ansi?

This seems to be a GoldED thing. Messages display fine in Mystic for me with Netrunner.

On other messages (I guess in the ADS echo), does it show high ansi?

(I recall that when messages have "UTF-8 4", depending on the reader
high ansi messages dont display well - but havent looked further than that.)

When clrghouz responds to a message, I re-use the CHRS kludge that the original message came with. (Since I display the original message with some additional (high) ansi chars - I've assumed this would be OK.) If
the original message doesnt come with a CHRS kludge, I use "CP437 2".

GoldED seems to read/use the CHRS kludge. I had messages from Clearing Houz displaying OK with the CP437 2 kludge but the ASCII 1 messages were still somewhat garbled. Playing around with my golded.cfg it now displays both ok.

I used some guidance from:
https://fidopedia.fido.de/index.php?title=Golded_cfg

And made some adjustments to add in the UTF-8 lines.

XLATPATH /home/ubuntu/.golded/charset/

INCLUDE /home/ubuntu/.golded/charsets.cfg

XLATCHARSET AUTO CP437 437_437.chs

XLATCHARSET CP437 IBMPC 850_ibm.chs
XLATCHARSET CP437 LATIN-1 850_iso.chs
XLATCHARSET CP437 UTF-8 437_u8.chs
XLATCHARSET CP850 IBMPC 850_ibm.chs
XLATCHARSET CP850 LATIN-1 850_iso.chs
XLATCHARSET CP850 UTF-8 850_u8.chs
XLATCHARSET LATIN-1 UTF-8 iso1_u8.chs
; wrong but working
XLATCHARSET CP866 IBMPC 866_850.chs
XLATCHARSET LATIN-1 IBMPC iso_ibm.chs
XLATCHARSET LATIN-1 LATIN-1 iso_iso.chs
XLATCHARSET MAC IBMPC mac_ibm.chs

XLATIMPORT CP437
XLATEXPORT UTF-8
XLATLOCALSET LATIN-1


Even with these, BBS Ads still look like this:

https://ibb.co/fdy8X3k


Jay

... I wouldn't buy anything with velcro. It's a total rip-off
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20231112
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110.1)

Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
By: Accession to Warpslide on Tue Dec 12 2023 06:14 pm

1) Golded doesn't support ANSI codes, so ANSI looks like completely garbage regardless what you try.

2) Golded doesn't support anything past the first 256 characters in the translation tables (.chs files). So this will result in some "high ascii" also not displaying properly.

It will show basic ASCII blocks/shades (uncolored), or anything covered in the first 256 characters of the CP437 charset, but nothing above and beyond that.

So in that screen shot, its a message generated by clrghouz.

There is not any ANSI codes (or shouldnt be), and the graphic is only CP437 chars (first 256 chars of the CP437 charset).


...δεσ∩
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
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Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
By: Accession to deon on Tue Dec 12 2023 06:18 pm

Howdy,

This may be a kludge CHRS related issue - or that golded cant display high ansi?

Yes, both. ;)

Just so that I know that I'm using the correct term - high ansi is above 128 (and below 256) right?

(I recall that when messages have "UTF-8 4", depending on the reader high ansi messages dont display well - but havent looked further than that.)

That's because ANSI should definitely not be posted with a "UTF-8 4" CHRS kludge. ANSI should be posted with a CP437 CHRS kludge. Most telnet/terminal programs default to CP437 *and* support ANSI. Golded only does one of the two (supports CP437, but doesn't support ANSI).

Hmm... Maybe I should parse the message and force it back to CP437 if there is nothing about UTF-8 about it. (For this case, havent seen the original message to see if it was UTF-8).


...δεσ∩
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

Hello deon,

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 18:39:50 +1100, you wrote:

So in that screen shot, its a message generated by clrghouz.

There is not any ANSI codes (or shouldnt be), and the graphic is only
CP437 chars (first 256 chars of the CP437 charset).

I went into Golded and looked at the Clearing Houz test message response. All characters display fine here, but the line drawing stuff under the block is wrapped wierd.

That said, Warpslide can use these settings in golded.conf:

xlatpath /path/to/golded-plus/cfgs/charset
include /path/to/golded-plus/cfgs/config/charsets.cfg

xlatimport cp437
xlatexport <pick one>
xlatlocalset <pick one>

xlatimport - specifies the codepage to use for incoming messages IF there is no CHRS kludge. So assume CP437 or CP850, depending on where you live, I guess.

xlatexport - specifies what CHRS kludge you want your outgoing messages to have.

xlatlocalset - your local terminal's charset or locale.

Hope that helps!

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)

Hello deon,

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 18:42:36 +1100, you wrote:

Yes, both. ;)

Just so that I know that I'm using the correct term - high ansi is above 128 (and below 256) right?

Sort of. Quoted from Wikipedia:

"Extended ASCII is a repertoire of character encodings that include (most of) the original 96 ASCII character set, plus up to 128 additional characters. There is no formal definition of "extended ASCII", and even use of the term is sometimes criticized,[1][2][3] because it can be mistakenly interpreted to mean that the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) had updated its ANSI X3.4-1986 standard to include more characters, or that the term identifies a single unambiguous encoding, neither of which is the case."

I suppose the correct term would be "extended ascii", but it has been called "high ascii" also for a long time.

That's because ANSI should definitely not be posted with a "UTF-8 4"
CHRS kludge. ANSI should be posted with a CP437 CHRS kludge. Most
telnet/terminal programs default to CP437 *and* support ANSI. Golded
only does one of the two (supports CP437, but doesn't support ANSI).

Hmm... Maybe I should parse the message and force it back to CP437 if
there is nothing about UTF-8 about it. (For this case, havent seen the original message to see if it was UTF-8).

Even if there were anything UTF-8 about it, I wouldn't use a UTF-8 CHRS kludge while posting an ANSI. Use CP437, and in not-so-often cases, CP850 if it's a norm on the other side of the pond.

Also keep in mind, a lot of people that started with Mystic or Synchronet may not know any better, but where ANSI is displayed fine on their BBS and in their BBSs message bases. Anyone else using Golded, Timed, Msged, any offline readers, or any kind of NNTP readers.. basically anywhere NOT using a BBS that supports reading/writing in message bases, can not view those ANSIs in message bases.

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)

Hi Accession,

I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great,
except that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

This will do what you want. (I use it here)

https://github.com/keaston/cp437

You use that with Golded and are able to see ANSI posted in message
bases while in Golded?

In my haist, I left out the bit about only doing high ascii....

It looked way worse than how I normally run Golded in tmux. My
terminal is definitely UTF-8, with all the LANG and LC_* variables
set. ;(

I just use the standard mate terminal in linux mint, and high ascii is displayed with no issues.


\/orlon
aka
Stephen

Rocking Amiga 3000 powerd, Linux M68K.



--- Talisman v0.51-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

Hello Warpslide!

11 Dec 23 22:11, you wrote to all:

Hi All,

I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great, except
that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

https://ibb.co/Nn7sQCM

Does anyone have any pointers on how to make that display properly?
I'm SSH'ing into Ubuntu 22.04 (64 bit) on a VPS.

Jay

... Did you hear about the guy who tried to grab fog? He mist
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20231112
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110.1)

As far as I know, GoldEd/GoldEd+ editors can't display ANSI.

Regards,
Orphan


--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Digital Asylum BBS - bbs.digitalasylum.com.ar:2323 (21:2/119)

Hello vorlon,

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:55:24 +1100, you wrote:

I just use the standard mate terminal in linux mint, and high ascii is displayed with no issues.

Then same here. As soon as you try to add ansi codes to it, it becomes unsupported.

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)

Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
By: deon to Accession on Wed Dec 13 2023 12:42 pm

Just so that I know that I'm using the correct term - high ansi is above 128 (and below 256) right?

"high ASCII" (which itself isn't really a thing)
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #90:
XON = Transmit On (ASCII 17, Ctrl-Q)
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Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
By: Digital Man to deon on Fri Dec 15 2023 08:27 pm

Just so that I know that I'm using the correct term - high ansi is above 128 (and below 256) right?

"high ASCII" (which itself isn't really a thing)

Ahh, yes, I meant ASCII not ANSI.

So it seems golded cannot display (printable) chars above 128...


...δεσ∩
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

Hello deon,

On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 21:30:08 +1100, you wrote:

So it seems golded cannot display (printable) chars above 128...

Sure it can. It just can't display ANSI.

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)

Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
By: Accession to deon on Sat Dec 16 2023 06:11 am

On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 21:30:08 +1100, you wrote:

So it seems golded cannot display (printable) chars above 128...

Sure it can. It just can't display ANSI.

Oh, OK.

Then I'm wondering why the clrghouz messages are not displaying? Or did you say yours was, but somebody else (I think Jay?) was using # for the ASCII > 127?

The clrghouz messages dont use any ANSI (well except the netmail when you link your system - I should change that...)


...δεσ∩
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

On Sunday December 17 2023, deon said the following...

Sure it can. It just can't display ANSI.

Oh, OK.

Then I'm wondering why the clrghouz messages are not displaying? Or
did you say yours was, but somebody else (I think Jay?) was using #
for the ASCII > 127?

The clrghouz messages dont use any ANSI (well except the netmail when
you link your system - I should change that...)

Yeah, my GoldED doesn't display Extended/High ASCII. I'm SSH'ing into a VPS, not using a GUI which might have
something to do with it.


Jay

... I have a collection of candy canes. They're all in mint condition
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20231112
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110.1)

Hello deon,

On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 06:18:20 +1100, you wrote:

Sure it can. It just can't display ANSI.

Oh, OK.

Then I'm wondering why the clrghouz messages are not displaying? Or did
you say yours was, but somebody else (I think Jay?) was using # for the ASCII > 127?

I did say they were displaying just fine here. Both on Golded as well as Smapinntpd with Claws Mail (uses the same character translation files).

I also gave the settings needed for anyone to get it to work in Golded.

The clrghouz messages dont use any ANSI (well except the netmail when
you link your system - I should change that...)

That's up to you. If most people are reading from a BBS, then the majority of people can probably see it just fine. But if you have a bunch of Golded users, then maybe changing it up to ASCII would be more suited?

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)

Hello Jay,

On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 15:34:32 -0500, you wrote:

Sure it can. It just can't display ANSI.

Oh, OK.

Then I'm wondering why the clrghouz messages are not displaying? Or
did you say yours was, but somebody else (I think Jay?) was using #
for the ASCII > 127?

The clrghouz messages dont use any ANSI (well except the netmail
when you link your system - I should change that...)

Yeah, my GoldED doesn't display Extended/High ASCII. I'm SSH'ing into a VPS, not using a GUI which might have
something to do with it.

No need to use a GUI. Check back a dozen messages or so, and try the settings I posted to see if they work for you.

I happen to use tmux with Golded, but I don't think that ever had much of an effect on whether extended ascii displayed or not. I think I went that route when I was working on getting UTF-8 characters to display properly.

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)

The clrghouz messages dont use any ANSI (well except the netmail when you link your system - I should change that...)

Although your netmail ansi's look cool (i've gotten a few :)) I'd say probably best to stick to plain ascii, as it's a service for lots of people you'd probably want to cater for the lowest common denominator.

I'd probably even stick to ordinary ascii and not use the high ascii as well.

I hate suggesting it because they all look really good, and I am sure most people can cope with the high ascii, but no doubt there will be someone trying to interface with a potato that can't speak anything but the most basic characters.

:)

Andrew


--- Noddy git-2b71c36
* Origin: Smuggler's Cove - scove.talismanbbs.com:2323 (21:1/182)

Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
By: Accession to deon on Sat Dec 16 2023 07:56 pm

Sure it can. It just can't display ANSI.

Oh, OK.

I did say they were displaying just fine here. Both on Golded as well as Smapinntpd with Claws Mail (uses the same character translation files).

I also gave the settings needed for anyone to get it to work in Golded.

Ahh, awesome. I think I understand now. Glad it does work (as I hoped).

Thanks...


...δεσ∩
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
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Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
By: apam to deon on Sun Dec 17 2023 12:29 pm

The clrghouz messages dont use any ANSI (well except the netmail when you link your system - I should change that...)

Although your netmail ansi's look cool (i've gotten a few :)) I'd say probably best to stick to plain ascii, as it's a service for lots of people you'd probably want to cater for the lowest common denominator.

I'd probably even stick to ordinary ascii and not use the high ascii as well.

I hate suggesting it because they all look really good, and I am sure most people can cope with the high ascii, but no doubt there will be someone trying to interface with a potato that can't speak anything but the most basic characters.

Thanks :)

Yeah, I actually dont want to loose it - so I might even add a flag, so folks can switch it to low ASCII for their system if they want (I dont think anybody will...). I also tried to keep the appropriate text away from the high ASCII, so that even if it is garbled, you can atleast read the rest of the message to understand why you got it.

I'll have a play...

(I'm hoping that others (which includes you), that as you develop for this old tech, you do get to exploit what it could have done - before it wasnt superceeded by GUI, graphics and the internet... :))


...δεσ∩
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