• Help me here .. I am confused ?

    From Argos@21:1/203 to All on Wed Oct 12 08:59:07 2022
    This was in the US News today ... I am really confused how this makes any sense? No Politics Please, against the rules! I need a rational conversation of logic.

    "New Zealand government on Tuesday proposed taxing farm animals greenhouse gas emissions as part of its efforts to reduce the pollution that is causing climate change. The tax would be the worlds first on animal emissions, including those from burps and urination, which contribute to rising global temperatures."

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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Argos on Wed Oct 12 11:47:25 2022
    Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Argos to All on Wed Oct 12 2022 08:59 am

    This was in the US News today ... I am really confused how this makes any s

    "New Zealand government on Tuesday proposed taxing farm animals greenhouse g rination, which contribute to rising global temperatures."

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    It is a political decision aimed at extracting money from farmers. It cannot spawn any conversation that is not political.

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  • From Argos@21:1/203 to Arelor on Wed Oct 12 13:43:48 2022

    Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Argos to All on Wed Oct 12 2022 08:59 am

    This was in the US News today ... I am really confused how this makes

    "New Zealand government on Tuesday proposed taxing farm animals greenho rination, which contribute to rising global temperatures."

    ---

    It is a political decision aimed at extracting money from farmers. It cannot spawn any conversation that is not political.

    Comments ... :(

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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Argos on Wed Oct 12 16:23:28 2022
    "New Zealand government on Tuesday proposed taxing farm animals
    greenhouse gas emissions as part of its efforts to reduce the pollution that is causing climate change. The tax would be the worlds first on animal emissions, including those from burps and urination, which contribute to rising global temperatures."

    I read about that also. Those sound like things which would be difficult
    to measure. In the article I read, they did not go into detail as to how
    they would be measured, so I am guessing it will be a per-head or based on
    farm size. Opponents said it would put small farms out of business and
    drive food production off-shore where the laws are less strict.

    That last bit does make sense.

    Apparently, dairy in particular is a big industry in NZ.

    One thing I found interesting is that one of the supporters or framers of
    the law stated that the farmers could pass the increased cost caused by the
    tax on to consumers. Here in the US, politicians and government types
    would rarely, if ever, say that about a bill or law they support. The
    honesty was refreshing (I guess that is the word for it?). <grin>

    Here in the states, the voters who support measures like these the most are often the younger ones who either don't know where their food comes from,
    or who think that everyone should be able to enjoy being vegan.



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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Argos on Thu Oct 13 14:06:00 2022
    "New Zealand government on Tuesday proposed taxing farm animals greenhouse gas emissions as part of its efforts to reduce the pollution that is causing climate change. The tax would be the worlds first on animal emissions, including those from burps and urination, which contribute to rising global temperatures."

    I saw that too.. and on the face of it, its absurd... unless you're going out there and measuring the animals output. However methane from cattle, is s'posed to create a far bigger global warming problem than the car for arguments sake. So you'd be trying to socially engineer your people to eat less meat and increase their vege intake. Perhaps we should tax the comedian Mr Methane too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFLw8aH-M2w


    On the flipside, I also saw in the news within the last week, an anti-fart tablet being aimed at cattle being developed, inhibiting the amount of gas created in the digestive tract. I have no idea who thought it up but its s'posed to contain some kind of seaweed.


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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Arelor on Thu Oct 13 14:11:00 2022
    It is a political decision aimed at extracting money from farmers. It cannot spawn any conversation that is not political.

    That's patently not true.. although it may well get dragged there.

    Spec


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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Spectre on Thu Oct 13 04:50:17 2022
    Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Spectre to Arelor on Thu Oct 13 2022 02:11 pm

    It is a political decision aimed at extracting money from farmers. It cannot spawn any conversation that is not political.

    That's patently not true.. although it may well get dragged there.

    Spec


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    Extracting money from a group using political mechanisms is a political decision justified with political arguments.

    Claiming it is not political is a political action too - I see it often when groups try to protray themselves as non-partisan and push political changes claiming they are not political.


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  • From claw@21:1/210 to Argos on Thu Oct 13 06:59:13 2022
    On 12 Oct 2022, Argos said the following...
    This was in the US News today ... I am really confused how this makes
    any sense? No Politics Please, against the rules! I need a rational conversation of logic.

    "New Zealand government on Tuesday proposed taxing farm animals
    greenhouse gas emissions as part of its efforts to reduce the pollution that is causing climate change. The tax would be the worlds first on animal emissions, including those from burps and urination, which contribute to rising global temperatures."
    FL.

    I guessing my comments probably belong on sp00knet but. If you control carbon and get enough people on board with taxing it. You can control everything. You choose the winners and losers. Who gets to do anything. This way people with money decide everything for us.

    I'll leave it at that.

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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Arelor on Fri Oct 14 06:44:00 2022
    It is a political decision aimed at extracting money from farmers.

    That's patently not true.. although it may well get dragged there.

    Extracting money from a group using political mechanisms is a political decision justified with political arguments.

    Sure it is, but the underlying argument however misguided isn't. I see this
    as being more of a road to hell being paved with good intentions.

    Spec


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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Arelor on Fri Oct 14 07:01:00 2022

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/27/whats-the-beef-with-cows-a nd-the-climate-crisis

    Not exactly a primary source given its a news paper but it'll do. It
    indicates that "farm animals" produce ~14% of human related climate
    emissions. In methane rather than Co2 which is far worse for the atmosphere.

    So the inherent idea of doing something about it, is "green". This can be discussed with no reference to politics. In this case you've got your
    blinkers on by saying there is ONLY political discussion there.

    Spec


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  • From georgi@21:4/177 to Argos on Fri Oct 14 09:58:12 2022
    What is so confusing? Money don't smell.

    This was in the US News today ... I am really confused how this makes
    any sense? No Politics Please, against the rules! I need a rational conversation of logic.

    "New Zealand government on Tuesday proposed taxing farm animals
    greenhouse gas emissions as part of its efforts to reduce the pollution that is causing climate change. The tax would be the worlds first on animal emissions, including those from burps and urination, which contribute to rising global temperatures."

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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Spectre on Fri Oct 14 13:21:11 2022
    Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Spectre to Arelor on Fri Oct 14 2022 06:44 am

    It is a political decision aimed at extracting money from farme

    That's patently not true.. although it may well get dragged there.

    Extracting money from a group using political mechanisms is a political decision justified with political arguments.

    Sure it is, but the underlying argument however misguided isn't. I see this as being more of a road to hell being paved with good intentions.

    Spec



    I argue the argument is political itself too.

    Politics is the art of managing the policies that drive a population. We are given a policy and then a stated goal for such policy, which happens to be driving the population a certain way. It is 100% political.

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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Spectre on Fri Oct 14 13:23:53 2022
    Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Spectre to Arelor on Fri Oct 14 2022 07:01 am


    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/27/whats-the-beef-with-cows nd-the-climate-crisis

    Not exactly a primary source given its a news paper but it'll do. It indicates that "farm animals" produce ~14% of human related climate emissions. In methane rather than Co2 which is far worse for the atmosphere.

    So the inherent idea of doing something about it, is "green". This can be discussed with no reference to politics. In this case you've got your blinkers on by saying there is ONLY political discussion there.

    Spec


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    The only discussion possible here is debating whether the argument is sound or not, which is actually a debate about whether the policy makes sense or not, which is a political debate.

    It is so political that this plan is an actual tax on food. You don't get more political than a tax on food. The only reason to defend if is a politics-free issue is to market the idea that you can apply a tax on food without being partisan.


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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Arelor on Sat Oct 15 06:48:00 2022
    The only discussion possible here is debating whether the argument is sound or
    not, which is actually a debate about whether the policy makes sense or not,
    which is a political debate.

    Yeah, nah.. the two may have been linked but are seperate ideas. You're telling me you can't have a discussion about organic methane production and possible reduction thereof without including politics? There is a seperate political debate about whether or not to tax it, that's a different story.

    The political debate strikes me as being sheer lunacy.

    Spec


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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Spectre on Fri Oct 14 18:23:10 2022
    Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Spectre to Arelor on Sat Oct 15 2022 06:48 am

    The only discussion possible here is debating whether the argument is sound or
    not, which is actually a debate about whether the policy makes sense or not,
    which is a political debate.

    Yeah, nah.. the two may have been linked but are seperate ideas. You're telling me you can't have a discussion about organic methane production and possible reduction thereof without including politics? There is a seperate political debate about whether or not to tax it, that's a different story.

    The political debate strikes me as being sheer lunacy.

    Spec


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    You can't have a discussion about organic methane production and a possible reduction thereof without including politics, as long as impossing reductions via policies is on the table. Which it clearly is.


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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Arelor on Sat Oct 15 16:10:00 2022
    You can't have a discussion about organic methane production and a possible
    reduction thereof without including politics, as long as impossing reductions
    via policies is on the table. Which it clearly is.

    You keep those blinkers on buddy, would've thought you'd have more horse
    sense.

    Spec


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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Arelor on Mon Oct 17 11:24:26 2022
    Extracting money from a group using political mechanisms is a political decision justified with political arguments.

    Claiming it is not political is a political action too - I see it often when groups try to protray themselves as non-partisan and push
    political changes claiming they are not political.

    Indeed.



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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Spectre on Mon Oct 17 11:25:56 2022
    Spectre wrote to Arelor <=-

    Extracting money from a group using political mechanisms is a political decision justified with political arguments.

    Sure it is, but the underlying argument however misguided isn't. I see this as being more of a road to hell being paved with good intentions.

    I also see this being true. :) People trying to do what Arelor describes often take advantage of such well-intentioned people, too. So maybe you
    both are right. :)


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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to All on Wed Oct 19 18:39:35 2022
    Being someone who eats veggie burgers I can say this much... a grilled
    veggie burger raises my emissions more than a traditional beef burger.
    With that in mind, once they get rid of the cattle, I expect they will
    be taxing us next.

    #

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  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Blue White on Thu Oct 20 22:54:11 2022
    Being someone who eats veggie burgers I can say this much... a grilled veggie burger raises my emissions more than a traditional beef burger. With that in mind, once they get rid of the cattle, I expect they will
    be taxing us next.

    #

    Hehe, depends on the veggie burger. I don't like the "fake meat" at all, with the exception of the soy based sausages. They are at least better than cheap hotdogs/frankfurters. Thats a pretty low bar though.

    For me, the best veggie burgers are the ones which don't try to emulate meat. Like the "bubble and squeak" ones, potato, peas, corn. Don't try to hide the vegetables and be a second rate meat burger, become a first rate veggie burger.

    By the way, if you burn off your emissions with a match, do they pose less of a threat environmentally?

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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Blue White on Fri Oct 21 08:09:00 2022
    Being someone who eats veggie burgers I can say this much... a grilled veggie burger raises my emissions more than a traditional beef burger. With that in mind, once they get rid of the cattle, I expect they will
    be taxing us next.

    That's not unexpected though. If you swapped the bulk of your meat intake
    over to veges then over time your guts would get the hang of the new picture and your emissions would drop off and the reverse would become true. The occasionally meaty burger would have you blowing the trumpet hard. :)

    Spec


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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to boraxman on Thu Oct 20 15:31:24 2022
    boraxman wrote to Blue White <=-

    Hehe, depends on the veggie burger. I don't like the "fake meat" at
    all, with the exception of the soy based sausages. They are at least better than cheap hotdogs/frankfurters. Thats a pretty low bar though.

    I am not really a fan of the fake meat.

    For me, the best veggie burgers are the ones which don't try to emulate meat. Like the "bubble and squeak" ones, potato, peas, corn. Don't try
    to hide the vegetables and be a second rate meat burger, become a first rate veggie burger.

    They have a brand here that is pretty good. They make the veggie pattie,
    which includes carrots, onions, mushrooms, and bell peppers, as well as soy
    and oats. They also have a black bean pattie which is very good and
    grills up better.

    If they are trying to be meat, they don't do a good job, but as veggie
    products they are pretty good. They are called Morning Star Farms.

    By the way, if you burn off your emissions with a match, do they pose
    less of a threat environmentally?

    Hmmm... that'd take a more green-minded person than I to discuss. One
    would think so, but there would be the smoke from the match so I don't
    know. :D



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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Blue White on Fri Oct 21 10:43:00 2022
    By the way, if you burn off your emissions with a match, do they pose less of a threat environmentally?

    Hmmm... that'd take a more green-minded person than I to discuss. One would think so, but there would be the smoke from the match so I don't know. :D

    Well the byproducts of burning methane, are CO2 and H2O approximately half of that of releasing raw methane into the atmosphere, but obviously still not good.

    Spec


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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to boraxman on Sat Oct 29 17:31:30 2022
    For me, the best veggie burgers are the ones which don't try to emulate meat. Like the "bubble and squeak" ones, potato, peas, corn. Don't try
    to hide the vegetables and be a second rate meat burger, become a first rate veggie burger.

    I think I tended to think that way when I wasn't vegetarian (it's been a while, though), but at this point... I like things that taste good, and some of the veggie burgers taste pretty darn good, regardless of what they're made of or what they're trying to impersonate (_if_ they're trying to impersonate things).

    But, while I can't get them in Europe (rules about GMOs forbid selling their current form), I like the Impossible Burgers, in part because it's interesting to have a burger that looks raw, but is made with beets, and is unlikely to have the dangerous forms of e. coli on it, so I feel safer cooking them "medium rare" than I ever did with a patty made from an animal.

    But, in general, the fake-meat options have gotten pretty interesting, in the past few years.

    On the other hand, I _also_ like things like General Tso's Tofu, where I think the texture and flavor of a very firm, preferably pre-browned tofu is better than making it with chicken.

    But, obviously, in matters of flavor preferences, to each their own.

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  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Adept on Sun Oct 30 17:15:56 2022
    I think I tended to think that way when I wasn't vegetarian (it's been a while, though), but at this point... I like things that taste good, and some of the veggie burgers taste pretty darn good, regardless of what they're made of or what they're trying to impersonate (_if_ they're
    trying to impersonate things).

    But, while I can't get them in Europe (rules about GMOs forbid selling their current form), I like the Impossible Burgers, in part because it's interesting to have a burger that looks raw, but is made with beets, and is unlikely to have the dangerous forms of e. coli on it, so I feel
    safer cooking them "medium rare" than I ever did with a patty made from
    an animal.

    I tried the Impossible Burger, and I could taste either beetroot or asparagus, neither of which I like very much. Not sure about how healthy these things are either. My wife doesn't like me buying veggie burgers because of the "processed crap", but the ones I get are less processed than the fake meat ones.

    I was a vegetarian for a short while, but "meat free" or "vegan" doesn't mean healthy at all. A lot of this is fad driven.

    But, in general, the fake-meat options have gotten pretty interesting,
    in the past few years.

    On the other hand, I _also_ like things like General Tso's Tofu, where I think the texture and flavor of a very firm, preferably pre-browned tofu is better than making it with chicken.

    I'll pass. And a hard pass on the bugs that some want us to start eating.

    Tofu is nice though, especially the browned tofu with the firm exterior and soft interior and I agree, It can be better than meat when done right.

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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to boraxman on Sun Oct 30 10:10:14 2022
    boraxman wrote to Adept <=-

    I was a vegetarian for a short while, but "meat free" or "vegan"
    doesn't mean healthy at all. A lot of this is fad driven.

    Especially if it is made with GMOs. I have heard a few folks claim that
    the use of GMO wheat is what causes so many people to have gluten problems
    now.

    And a hard pass on the bugs that some want us to start
    eating.

    They call it progress, but it sounds more like reverting back to ancient
    times, when we lived in caves and beat each other with clubs.

    Tofu is nice though, especially the browned tofu with the firm exterior and soft interior and I agree, It can be better than meat when done
    right.

    Back in the late 1990's, I visted a restaurant in Knoxville, Tennessee. I think it was called Kalamata Kitchen. They prepared some sort of appetizer with portabello mushrooms that tasted a lot like steak... maybe even a
    little better than.

    I have never been able to find them prepared quite that way since.



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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to boraxman on Sun Oct 30 22:05:42 2022
    I was a vegetarian for a short while, but "meat free" or "vegan" doesn't mean healthy at all. A lot of this is fad driven.

    *shrug*. I find this fairly irrelevant. I've been vegetarian for 8 years, I guess, and, yeah, I would not say it's healthier, other than avoiding some things like the various scary bits about how the body (and bacteria that live in the body) process red meat.

    But "fad" or not, well, most of the food industry involves fads, whether meat or not.

    On the other hand, I _also_ like things like General Tso's Tofu, wher think the texture and flavor of a very firm, preferably pre-browned t is better than making it with chicken.

    I'll pass. And a hard pass on the bugs that some want us to start
    eating.

    Do you not like General Tso's? I make it at home, sometimes, and it's all about the sauce. Which, from what I put into it, it seems to be largely about soy sauce and maple syrup.

    But, yes, back when I ate meat I did try things like eating crickets (it kinda felt like eating sand, though a chocolate-covered cricket was like eating a Kit Kat.

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  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Adept on Mon Oct 31 21:44:47 2022
    *shrug*. I find this fairly irrelevant. I've been vegetarian for 8
    years, I guess, and, yeah, I would not say it's healthier, other than avoiding some things like the various scary bits about how the body (and bacteria that live in the body) process red meat.

    But "fad" or not, well, most of the food industry involves fads, whether meat or not.


    Do you not like General Tso's? I make it at home, sometimes, and it's
    all about the sauce. Which, from what I put into it, it seems to be largely about soy sauce and maple syrup.

    But, yes, back when I ate meat I did try things like eating crickets (it kinda felt like eating sand, though a chocolate-covered cricket was like eating a Kit Kat.


    I've never had General Tso's. Not sure it is available in Australia.

    Funny you should mention that chocolate covered cricket is like Kit Kat, I'm literally eating one right now!

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  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to boraxman on Mon Oct 31 08:00:00 2022
    boraxman wrote to Adept <=-

    Do you not like General Tso's? I make it at home, sometimes, and it's
    all about the sauce. Which, from what I put into it, it seems to be largely about soy sauce and maple syrup.

    But, yes, back when I ate meat I did try things like eating crickets (it kinda felt like eating sand, though a chocolate-covered cricket was like eating a Kit Kat.

    Funny you should mention that chocolate covered cricket is like
    Kit Kat, I'm literally eating one right now!

    A Kit Kat, or a cricket? ;-)

    I'll starve to death before eating either a cricket, or tofu.



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  • From neckbeard@21:3/105 to Gamgee on Mon Oct 31 13:03:31 2022
    A Kit Kat, or a cricket? ;-)

    I'll starve to death before eating either a cricket, or tofu.


    Amen brother!!!

    ... I don't have the time for a hobby. I have a computer.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to boraxman on Mon Nov 21 21:12:34 2022
    I don't think I answered this, so...

    I've never had General Tso's. Not sure it is available in Australia.

    I think it's an American Chinese dish. I think most Chinese places in the US would have it, but I wouldn't state that with any certainty, as I've certainly been to plenty of places that didn't have it.

    And General Tso's _Tofu_ is much less common. Though I imagine a friendly kitchen wouldn't have a problem substituting things, sauce aside.

    Funny you should mention that chocolate covered cricket is like Kit Kat, I'm literally eating one right now!

    Hopefully you enjoyed your cricket!

    (Kidding.)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to neckbeard on Mon Nov 21 21:18:09 2022
    A Kit Kat, or a cricket? ;-)

    I'll starve to death before eating either a cricket, or tofu.

    Amen brother!!!

    I find this mindset _odd_.

    Both because, when I ate meat, I liked _trying_ things. Did I like crickets, or blood soup, or anything involving offal? No, but it was an experience, much like my approach to alcohol.

    And as someone who doesn't eat meat (intentionally, anyway), if I were starving to death, I'd probably kill something and eat it, if it were an option.

    But people seem _really_ attached to meat eating, for some reason. So, odd.

    (Incidentally, just to add to the oddness, I like butchering. So, while I won't eat it, I'll take a chicken or turkey apart because it's like a reverse puzzle.)

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  • From ogg@21:2/147 to Adept on Mon Nov 21 15:54:03 2022
    I think it's an American Chinese dish. I think most Chinese places in
    the US would have it, but I wouldn't state that with any certainty, as I've certainly been to plenty of places that didn't have it.

    I watched a Public Broadcasting Service (PBS) show that traced the origins of General Tso's back to, I thought, somewhere in New York City.

    ogg
    Sysop, Altair IV BBS
    altairiv.ddns.com

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  • From Nightfox to Adept on Mon Nov 21 16:47:28 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Adept to boraxman on Mon Nov 21 2022 09:12 pm

    I've never had General Tso's. Not sure it is available in
    Australia.

    I think it's an American Chinese dish. I think most Chinese places in the US would have it, but I wouldn't state that with any certainty, as I've certainly been to plenty of places that didn't have it.

    It seems some places have a General Tso's Chicken dish and some don't. Also, it seems it can be inconsistent depending on which restaurant you get it from (but that's about true for any Chinese dish). Usually it's breaded and fried chicken in a sauce that I'd call sweet and spicy (or savory).

    Nightfox
  • From Nightfox to Adept on Mon Nov 21 16:51:31 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Adept to neckbeard on Mon Nov 21 2022 09:18 pm

    And as someone who doesn't eat meat (intentionally, anyway), if I were starving to death, I'd probably kill something and eat it, if it were an option.

    But people seem _really_ attached to meat eating, for some reason. So, odd.

    I eat meat, but I also find the idea of being really attached to meat eating is a bit odd. It seems there's a movement to make vegetarian meat substitutions (for instance, in the US, there has been a growth of "Beyond" meat substitute in the last several years, with some chain fast food places and other restaurants now having versions of some items with Beyond meat substitute). I've also heard of efforts to make cuts of cloned meat in a lab using actual animal DNA. I think the idea of making meat substitutes is a worthy goal - If we can significanly cut down on raising animals for meat and make affordable, healthy meat substitutes, I'd be for that.

    Nightfox
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Adept on Mon Nov 21 21:06:00 2022
    Hello Adept!

    ** On Monday 21.11.22 - 21:18, Adept wrote to neckbeard:

    (Incidentally, just to add to the oddness, I like
    butchering. So, while I won't eat it, I'll take a chicken
    or turkey apart because it's like a reverse puzzle.)

    Didn't Dalmer start with small animals? LOL


    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Adept on Mon Nov 21 20:29:00 2022
    Adept wrote to neckbeard <=-

    > Ga> A Kit Kat, or a cricket? ;-)
    > Ga>
    > Ga> I'll starve to death before eating either a cricket, or tofu.

    Amen brother!!!

    I find this mindset _odd_.

    It was me above that said that, and I find it _normal_. I think I'm in
    the majority on that mindset, too.

    Both because, when I ate meat, I liked _trying_ things. Did I
    like crickets, or blood soup, or anything involving offal? No,
    but it was an experience, much like my approach to alcohol.

    Not really following you here... I eat meat, and I *ALSO* like _trying_ things. Just not bugs or coagulated soy milk with a nasty texture.

    And as someone who doesn't eat meat (intentionally, anyway), if I
    were starving to death, I'd probably kill something and eat it,
    if it were an option.

    I would probably actually eat tofu to avoid dying, but maybe not bugs.

    But people seem _really_ attached to meat eating, for some
    reason. So, odd.

    Well, humans are omnivores, so why would it seem odd? It's part of the definition of being an omnivore. I like eating meat, but I also like
    eating LOTS of other things that are NOT meat. Again, hard to follow
    your "logic" here.

    (Incidentally, just to add to the oddness, I like butchering. So,
    while I won't eat it, I'll take a chicken or turkey apart because
    it's like a reverse puzzle.)

    Of all the things you've said here, *THAT* actually *IS* "odd". Kind of strange, is more like it.


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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to ogg on Tue Nov 22 10:54:43 2022
    I think it's an American Chinese dish. I think most Chinese places in the US would have it, but I wouldn't state that with any certainty, a I've certainly been to plenty of places that didn't have it.

    I watched a Public Broadcasting Service (PBS) show that traced the
    origins of General Tso's back to, I thought, somewhere in New York City.

    Nifty! Kind of like how the fortune cookie came from San Francisco.

    I compare this a bit to kebab places in Germany, where, sure, it seems like a Turkish thing or something, but it's _really_ German.

    Various things that you think are ethnic, immigrant food, but they're really a part of the local culture, and are as American or German as apple pie or various potato dishes.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Nightfox on Tue Nov 22 10:56:46 2022
    It seems some places have a General Tso's Chicken dish and some don't. Also, it seems it can be inconsistent depending on which restaurant you get it from (but that's about true for any Chinese dish). Usually it's breaded and fried chicken in a sauce that I'd call sweet and spicy (or savory).

    That seems like an accurate description to me.

    I tend to view it as needing to have broccoli with it, but there's no guarantee on that aspect.

    When I make it on my own (well, General Tso's Tofu), I use a recipe that seems to be mostly soy sauce and maple syrup, with a bit of oil and some additional flavorings.

    Generally there's some sambal oelek or something else spicy in it, too, yes.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Nightfox on Tue Nov 22 11:01:27 2022
    making meat substitutes is a worthy goal - If we can significanly cut
    down on raising animals for meat and make affordable, healthy meat substitutes, I'd be for that.

    It does seem like a way to make things more efficient -- most crop land goes to feeding animals, and if we cut much of that out, probably means more land that can become a nature preserve or a subdivision or some other use.

    And if the substitutes taste as good and are as healthy, it seems like a net positive. Even though I'm sure there'll always be a market for things like kobe beef or whatever.

    But a random burger from a fast food joint that overcooks the meat and then covers it in enough other stuff that the quality doesn't matter? It doesn't seem like people would notice.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Ogg on Tue Nov 22 11:08:39 2022
    (Incidentally, just to add to the oddness, I like
    butchering. So, while I won't eat it, I'll take a chicken
    or turkey apart because it's like a reverse puzzle.)

    Didn't Dalmer start with small animals? LOL

    That does make sense, as theoretically one practices with what's available, as dark as that is.

    But I doubt I'd ever enjoy slaughtering. While I've killed fish I was going to eat (as quickly and humanely as I could), I'm not about to kill things for other people, or for myself, unless I have no other option.

    The killing isn't why I stopped eating meat (I don't especially have a reason), but it's certainly a nice side benefit, even if veal is still the byproduct of milk I drink.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Gamgee on Tue Nov 22 11:16:12 2022
    > Ga> I'll starve to death before eating either a cricket, or tofu.
    It was me above that said that, and I find it _normal_. I think I'm in the majority on that mindset, too.

    It might be normal, but the, "being vegetarian is so weird, I need more MEAT!" just seems _odd_ that people _bring it up_.

    It's odd to me because it seems like not eating meat feels like a personal offense to people.

    It's not odd to me that people eat meat.

    Not really following you here... I eat meat, and I *ALSO* like _trying_ things. Just not bugs or coagulated soy milk with a nasty texture.

    "coagulated soy milk with nasty texture" just sounds like a description of "cheese", but with soy milk instead of animal milk.

    And I tend to like a very firm, smoked tofu, because the texture is _way_ better.

    But I also tend to prefer cheddar over various soft cheeses, many of which I dislike for both flavor and texture.

    Well, humans are omnivores, so why would it seem odd? It's part of the

    It's not the meat eating; it's the being attached to it.

    Omnivore means you get choices.

    eating LOTS of other things that are NOT meat. Again, hard to follow your "logic" here.

    Really? Scare quotes? C'mon, man, chill.

    Of all the things you've said here, *THAT* actually *IS* "odd". Kind of strange, is more like it.

    I went to culinary school, and making stuff was oftentimes interesting, and the stuff you could make if you disassembled the meat in a variety of ways was fascinating.

    Honestly, it's not all that different to me than figuring out some issue while coding. Just going through some logical steps, checking, testing, go through the steps again until the end product is good...

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  • From StormTrooper@21:2/108 to Adept on Tue Nov 22 11:28:42 2022
    Various things that you think are ethnic, immigrant food, but they're really a part of the local culture, and are as American or German as
    apple pie or various potato dishes.


    Go the Kartoffelpuffer!

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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Adept on Tue Nov 22 08:54:16 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Adept to Gamgee on Tue Nov 22 2022 11:16 am

    It might be normal, but the, "being vegetarian is so weird, I need more MEAT!" just

    It's odd to me because it seems like not eating meat feels like a personal offense


    Most people I know don't give a damn. People with restricted diets are still a burden
    in some groups because they limit the options of a group as a whole. This is: if you
    are at a party and an attendant is vegan, the fact there is a vegan means you need to
    plan in advance so there is vegan food at the party. It is not an issue so bad as to
    scream bloody murder but it is inconvenient as heck, specially if you don't know in
    advance.

    Problems start when people with restricted diets start pushing on third parties so
    everybody has a restricted diet. Like that muslim family that sued a school because
    somebody gave a talk about Guijuelo's ham processing. Then you have the pletora of
    political forces trying to engineer society into eating lab processed food instead of
    lambs grown on a pasture using force if necessary.

    I don't think people following restricted diets are troublesome because they follow a
    restricted diet. The problem seems to be a percentage of this people who are troublesome for other reasons, and the restricted diet is just the symthom of the
    underlying issues which plage this people. Much like some PACMA vegan types deserve a
    beating not for being vegan, but because they would take your pets and livehood if you
    let them.

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  • From Nightfox to Adept on Tue Nov 22 09:36:03 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Adept to Nightfox on Tue Nov 22 2022 11:01 am

    And if the substitutes taste as good and are as healthy, it seems like a net positive. Even though I'm sure there'll always be a market for things like kobe beef or whatever.

    But a random burger from a fast food joint that overcooks the meat and then covers it in enough other stuff that the quality doesn't matter? It doesn't seem like people would notice.

    I've had a couple of Beyond Whoppers from Burger King. I can tell a difference in flavor of the patty compared to the beef version, but I think it still has a beef-like flavor and is pretty good.

    Nightfox
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to StormTrooper on Wed Nov 23 12:47:35 2022
    Various things that you think are ethnic, immigrant food, but they're really a part of the local culture, and are as American or German as apple pie or various potato dishes.
    Go the Kartoffelpuffer!

    I tend to point out how bad of a German I am (beyond not being natively German) because of not really liking potatoes or beer.

    Not really sure what's wrong with me. :)

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Nightfox on Wed Nov 23 12:54:48 2022
    I've had a couple of Beyond Whoppers from Burger King. I can tell a difference in flavor of the patty compared to the beef version, but I think it still has a beef-like flavor and is pretty good.

    ...oh, you're not in the US.

    Mostly because it's Impossible Whoppers in the US, I think. Not entirely sure. In Germany I think it's "Plant Whopper" or something like that.

    And, yeah, I think they're generally pretty solid, though I tend to be sad that they're cooked like regular burgers. The Impossible meat burgers, especially, are better when they look like they're cooked medium rare.

    But I get _why_ they do it, and I'll still definitely eat them, as they're a pleasant option among the vegetarian fast-food options.

    Regardless, thanks for the comparison, as I don't really remember how different a meat-based Burger King burger tastes like. Though I think, "covered in lots of other stuff" was probably still the main flavor.

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  • From Nightfox to Adept on Wed Nov 23 08:51:26 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Adept to Nightfox on Wed Nov 23 2022 12:54 pm

    I've had a couple of Beyond Whoppers from Burger King. I can tell a
    difference in flavor of the patty compared to the beef version, but
    I think it still has a beef-like flavor and is pretty good.

    ...oh, you're not in the US.

    Actually, I am in the US..

    Mostly because it's Impossible Whoppers in the US, I think. Not entirely sure. In Germany I think it's "Plant Whopper" or something like that.

    Yeah, I meant to say Impossible Whopper.. For some reason I was thinking Beyond when I wrote my previous message.

    Nightfox
  • From StormTrooper@21:2/108 to Adept on Wed Nov 23 21:13:39 2022
    I tend to point out how bad of a German I am (beyond not being natively German) because of not really liking potatoes or beer.

    Apfel schnapps for the win then, and maybe a semmelknodel then? :) Sliced and fried day old knodel <yum>

    Not really sure what's wrong with me. :)

    ERmm hard to tell...

    ST

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  • From Nightfox to Adept on Wed Nov 23 15:17:47 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Adept to StormTrooper on Wed Nov 23 2022 12:47 pm

    I tend to point out how bad of a German I am (beyond not being natively German) because of not really liking potatoes or beer.

    Bier auch schmeckt mich nicht. :)

    I live in an area that is known for many craft beer breweries, and wine too, but I don't like beer and I rarely drink alcoholic beverages in general..

    There was a German restaurant very close to me that was only there for a couple years, and it closed down several months ago.. I was disappointed to see it close, as there aren't many German restaurants in my area, and I liked their food.

    Nightfox
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Nightfox on Thu Nov 24 23:54:17 2022
    Yeah, I meant to say Impossible Whopper.. For some reason I was thinking Beyond when I wrote my previous message.

    Ah, okay, makes sense.

    I do think the Impossible Meat things are pretty interesting, and am sad that I can't get them in Europe (GMO regulations. And not discussing that, here; just sad I can't get an interesting product here, much like my desire for Wisconsin cheese in Germany.).

    But, yeah, I can imagine they don't taste exactly the same, and different taste buds are probably going to notice different things.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to StormTrooper on Thu Nov 24 23:58:32 2022
    Apfel schnapps for the win then, and maybe a semmelknodel then? :)
    Sliced and fried day old knodel <yum>

    I'm at least a fan of gebrannte Mandeln.

    And probably a few other mostly-German things. I do wonder how acn is on having stereotypical taste preferences. I imagine she's better at it than me.

    But I don't think that takes much, as I don't recall meeting other people who are as "meh" toward potatoes as I am. I'm sure they exist, but it doesn't really come up.

    But not like I'm surveying everyone I meet.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Nightfox on Fri Nov 25 00:04:00 2022
    I live in an area that is known for many craft beer breweries, and wine too, but I don't like beer and I rarely drink alcoholic beverages in general..

    I like tasting alcoholic beverages, but it's not because I actually like the taste.

    In furthering that, I've ordered two gin advent calendars and one wine advent calendar.

    I will not get through them in December. But having 100ml bottles of wine definitely appeals to me, as it's about as much wine as I'd want to drink, and if I pour half of _that_ out, it's still not very much.

    But then I still get to try more things, and eventually put them into my wiki of wine and gin tastings.

    There was a German restaurant very close to me that was only there for a couple years, and it closed down several months ago.. I was
    disappointed to see it close, as there aren't many German restaurants in my area, and I liked their food.

    Yeah, I think that sort of thing tends to be sad, as it's always nice when there's a wide array of options, especially options that one is a fan of. But if everyone else doesn't go there, yeah, not going to last.

    Though this does also remind me of a German store in San Francisco. When I visited it, after having lived in Germany the first time, it felt a bit like being back. Even though I would be getting things like Tempo tissues.

    But that store has been there for decades, somehow, so clearly they found their market. But it wasn't a restaurant.

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  • From Nightfox to Adept on Thu Nov 24 22:35:36 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Adept to Nightfox on Thu Nov 24 2022 11:54 pm

    I do think the Impossible Meat things are pretty interesting, and am sad that I can't get them in Europe (GMO regulations. And not discussing that, here; just sad I can't get an interesting product here, much like my desire for Wisconsin cheese in Germany.).

    I think Impossible Meat is interesting too, and I support it.

    I hear about Wisconsin cheese, but as someone who lives in Oregon (another US state), we have a dairy here called Tillamook Creamery (named after the town of Tillamook, Oregon) that makes some really good cheese (they make good ice cream too). Even within Oregon though, their products tend to be more expensive than other more generic stuff, so I don't buy it all the time.

    Nightfox
  • From Nightfox to Adept on Thu Nov 24 22:42:39 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Adept to Nightfox on Fri Nov 25 2022 12:04 am

    In furthering that, I've ordered two gin advent calendars and one wine advent calendar.

    I will not get through them in December. But having 100ml bottles of wine definitely appeals to me, as it's about as much wine as I'd want to drink, and if I pour half of _that_ out, it's still not very much.

    Yeah, even with wine, I have a hard time drinking much of it too. There are certain mixed drinks that I find easier to drink though.

    Though this does also remind me of a German store in San Francisco. When I visited it, after having lived in Germany the first time, it felt a bit like being back. Even though I would be getting things like Tempo tissues.

    I visited Germany once in 1998. I think I remember seeing Tempo tissues. I think I remember people using "Tempo" like people use "Kleenex" in the US (as in, "willst du ein Tempo?")

    Nightfox
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Adept on Fri Nov 25 21:17:54 2022
    Nifty! Kind of like how the fortune cookie came from San Francisco.

    I compare this a bit to kebab places in Germany, where, sure, it seems like a Turkish thing or something, but it's _really_ German.

    Various things that you think are ethnic, immigrant food, but they're really a part of the local culture, and are as American or German as
    apple pie or various potato dishes.


    The Kebab is not German. The reason they are ubiquitous in Germany is due to the large number of Turks living there.

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  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Nightfox on Fri Nov 25 07:44:00 2022
    Nightfox wrote to Adept <=-

    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Adept to Nightfox on Thu Nov 24 2022 11:54 pm

    I do think the Impossible Meat things are pretty interesting, and am sad that I can't get them in Europe (GMO regulations. And not discussing that, here; just sad I can't get an interesting product here, much like my desire for Wisconsin cheese in Germany.).

    I think Impossible Meat is interesting too, and I support it.

    Meh.

    I hear about Wisconsin cheese, but as someone who lives in Oregon
    (another US state), we have a dairy here called Tillamook
    Creamery (named after the town of Tillamook, Oregon) that makes
    some really good cheese (they make good ice cream too). Even
    within Oregon though, their products tend to be more expensive
    than other more generic stuff, so I don't buy it all the time.

    I will agree that Tillamook ice cream is excellent. Maybe the best I've
    ever had. However... the best cheese is from Cabot Creameries, in
    Cabot, Vermont. Especially notable is the "Seriously Sharp" cheddar.
    It can be found in many grocery stores these days.



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  • From Nightfox to Gamgee on Fri Nov 25 16:30:34 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Gamgee to Nightfox on Fri Nov 25 2022 07:44 am

    I will agree that Tillamook ice cream is excellent. Maybe the best I've ever had. However... the best cheese is from Cabot Creameries, in
    Cabot, Vermont. Especially notable is the "Seriously Sharp" cheddar.
    It can be found in many grocery stores these days.

    I don't recall seeing that in stores in my area, but if I see it, I may have to give it a try.

    Nightfox
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Nightfox on Fri Nov 25 21:47:00 2022
    Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I will agree that Tillamook ice cream is excellent. Maybe the best I've ever had. However... the best cheese is from Cabot Creameries, in
    Cabot, Vermont. Especially notable is the "Seriously Sharp" cheddar.
    It can be found in many grocery stores these days.

    I don't recall seeing that in stores in my area, but if I see it,
    I may have to give it a try.

    You won't be disappointed, I assure you.

    This review has Cabot and Tillamook ranked 1 & 2:

    https://www.mashed.com/405911/popular-cheese-brands-ranked-worst-to-best/



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  • From StormTrooper@21:2/108 to Adept on Sat Nov 26 03:59:14 2022
    I'm at least a fan of gebrannte Mandeln.

    Not familiar with these, but they sound a lot like honey roasted cashews.

    But I don't think that takes much, as I don't recall meeting other
    people who are as "meh" toward potatoes as I am. I'm sure they exist,
    but it doesn't really come up.

    Good thing you're not eye rish ;)

    St

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  • From Nightfox to boraxman on Fri Nov 25 20:14:33 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: boraxman to Adept on Fri Nov 25 2022 09:17 pm

    I compare this a bit to kebab places in Germany, where, sure, it
    seems like a Turkish thing or something, but it's _really_ German.

    The Kebab is not German. The reason they are ubiquitous in Germany is due to the large number of Turks living there.

    I've always heard of the kebab as a Turkish (or mediterranean food). I've never heard of it as a German food.. And in my area, I always see kebabs served at restaurants that are considered mediterranean, middle-eastern, etc.. There's also a couple of Lebanese restaurants in my area that serve kebab. In contrast, I've never seen kebab at a German restaurant.

    Nightfox
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Adept on Sat Nov 26 08:07:00 2022
    Adept wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I do think the Impossible Meat things are pretty interesting, and am
    sad that I can't get them in Europe (GMO regulations. And not
    discussing that, here; just sad I can't get an interesting product
    here, much like my desire for Wisconsin cheese in Germany.).

    To my pallete, they taste like an ultra-low fat meat - it lacks the
    mouthfeel of meat, but has the flavor and texture down pretty well. Makes
    for a pretty good burger.

    My wife's been vegetarian for the last 5 years, and her take on it is
    instead of eating veggies made to look like meat, she'd rather just have vegetables. She's not trying to replace meat.


    ... Onward, to meatspace!
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  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Nightfox on Sun Nov 27 12:54:58 2022
    The Kebab is not German. The reason they are ubiquitous in Germany is to the large number of Turks living there.

    I've always heard of the kebab as a Turkish (or mediterranean food).
    I've never heard of it as a German food.. And in my area, I always see kebabs served at restaurants that are considered mediterranean, middle-eastern, etc.. There's also a couple of Lebanese restaurants in
    my area that serve kebab. In contrast, I've never seen kebab at a
    German restaurant.


    Durum Kebab is Turkish. Germany has quite a high population of Turks due to their ill conceived "guest worker" program. As a result of that, there are many, many Kebab shops. They are popular amongst Germans now. Easier to get a Kebab than a Schnitzel. The Kebab stores in Germany are generally run by Middle Easterners/Turks.

    I have no idea how anyone could think it was a German dish? My wifes German. I might tell her that someone thought they were actually German. She could use a laugh.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to boraxman on Mon Nov 28 23:11:14 2022
    The Kebab is not German. The reason they are ubiquitous in Germany is
    due to the large number of Turks living there.

    This would be why I said:

    I compare this a bit to kebab places in Germany, where, sure, it seem like a Turkish thing or something, but it's _really_ German.

    The kebab places in Germany are German food with a strong Turkish accent.

    But at this point, they've been there long enough that it's as German as fortune cookies are American food.

    But, as I said:

    Various things that you think are ethnic, immigrant food, but they're really a part of the local culture, and are as American or German as apple pie or various potato dishes.

    Again, it's not super-authentic food that came from Turkey. It's Turkish-influenced food that's German.

    Maybe some bit of this is pedantic, but the topic started with General Tso's, which, while it's "Chinese food", it seems to primarily be an American dish.

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  • From Nightfox to Adept on Mon Nov 28 15:28:15 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Adept to boraxman on Mon Nov 28 2022 11:11 pm

    Maybe some bit of this is pedantic, but the topic started with General Tso's, which, while it's "Chinese food", it seems to primarily be an American dish.

    I think many people in the US would consider General Tso's to be a Chinese dish. Even though it may have originated in the US, it may be Chinese-influenced, which would be the reason many Americans would consider it a Chinese dish.

    Sometimes I've wondered what makes a food 'from' a particular place? If a group of Turkish people emigrate to another country and invent some new food dishes there, is it still Turkish food, or is the food from the country they're now living (and would be considered Turkish-inspired food)?

    Nightfox
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to StormTrooper on Mon Nov 28 23:13:10 2022
    I'm at least a fan of gebrannte Mandeln.

    Not familiar with these, but they sound a lot like honey roasted cashews.

    Yeah, the flavor profile is somewhat similar, if caramelized sugar instead of honey.

    Though I wouldn't be surprised if some recipes happened to contain honey anyway.

    But sugar coatings for nuts tend to be tasty treats, regardless of coating or nut.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Nov 28 23:19:25 2022
    To my pallete, they taste like an ultra-low fat meat - it lacks the mouthfeel of meat, but has the flavor and texture down pretty well.
    Makes for a pretty good burger.

    That makes sense.

    Though I imagine they probably could do higher-fat versions of it, but making the meat seem extra greasy would probably not be a positive.

    My wife's been vegetarian for the last 5 years, and her take on it is instead of eating veggies made to look like meat, she'd rather just have vegetables. She's not trying to replace meat.

    That's also reasonable. I was like that when I wasn't vegetarian.

    But at this point, I just want things that taste good, and I'm not overly picky about what's been done to it.

    To be fair, eating healthfully is also a positive thing, but that's kind of a separate issue.

    But today I had a sushi roll (or whatever it's called), and it involved cucumber and cream cheese. And I like the vegetarian versions of the rolls, though I was never much a fan of raw fish.

    But I _did_ previously have a fake-fish version of... nigiri? I forget. But rice with "fish" on top of it. And that was... interesting. Not bad, and something I'd have again, but I don't really see anything wrong with cucumber or tofu or other more-obviously-veggie ingredients, and the fake fish seems less tasty than the other options.

    But not sure how I'd feel if I used to really like raw-fish sushi.

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  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Adept on Mon Nov 28 19:36:00 2022
    Adept wrote to boraxman <=-

    The Kebab is not German. The reason they are ubiquitous in Germany is
    due to the large number of Turks living there.

    This would be why I said:

    I compare this a bit to kebab places in Germany, where, sure, it seem like a Turkish thing or something, but it's _really_ German.

    The kebab places in Germany are German food with a strong Turkish
    accent.

    But at this point, they've been there long enough that it's as
    German as fortune cookies are American food.

    But, as I said:

    Various things that you think are ethnic, immigrant food, but they're really a part of the local culture, and are as American or German as apple pie or various potato dishes.

    Again, it's not super-authentic food that came from Turkey. It's Turkish-influenced food that's German.

    Maybe some bit of this is pedantic, but the topic started with
    General Tso's, which, while it's "Chinese food", it seems to
    primarily be an American dish.

    Ummmm.... It's *ALL* pedantic.

    The kebab is NOT German, and it's really that simple.



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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Nightfox on Tue Nov 29 21:30:05 2022
    Sometimes I've wondered what makes a food 'from' a particular place? If
    a group of Turkish people emigrate to another country and invent some
    new food dishes there, is it still Turkish food, or is the food from the country they're now living (and would be considered Turkish-inspired food)?

    Yeah, I suppose it's a bit like how much a person is part of the country they live in versus came from (or possibly parents, grandparents, or beyond).

    But I figure food or food styles that were invented in a country, and aren't widely found in the country the cuisine comes from, it's hard to say that it's from anywhere but the country it was invented in.

    But, yeah, still influenced by a different country or culture.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Gamgee on Tue Nov 29 21:38:28 2022
    The kebab is NOT German, and it's really that simple.

    ...so you're explaining how people choose their position on something, and then find reasons for it, so you might as well start with just stating the opinion as fact, and skip all that unnecessary fact finding that's just about strengthening one's position to oneself?

    Nice! A brilliant shortcut in psychology. Well demonstrated.

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  • From StormTrooper@21:2/108 to Adept on Tue Nov 29 22:35:14 2022
    But sugar coatings for nuts tend to be tasty treats, regardless of
    coating or nut.


    We only seem to get the cashews here, rarely peanuts and thats about it.

    ST

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  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Adept on Tue Nov 29 20:50:00 2022
    Adept wrote to Gamgee <=-

    The kebab is NOT German, and it's really that simple.

    ...so you're explaining how people choose their position on
    something, and then find reasons for it, so you might as well
    start with just stating the opinion as fact, and skip all that
    unnecessary fact finding that's just about strengthening one's
    position to oneself?

    Nope. What seems to be confusing you is the difference between a
    "position on something" (AKA an opinion); and a simple factual
    statement. It's not my *opinion* that the kebab is not German, it's
    just a simple fact. Similar to something like "iron is more dense than
    wood". There's no debate on it.

    Choosing your position on something applies to things like religion, or
    being for/against abortion, or politics; to name a few. Simple facts
    need no debate or justification, they just...... are.

    Now you know!


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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Gamgee on Thu Dec 1 00:54:49 2022
    It's not my *opinion* that

    ...yes it is.

    And that's a fact. Objective fact, that I have just proven to be objective fact by stating that it is an objective fact.

    (I'd go back to addressing the topic, but that ship sailed, and now I'm just having fun launching tautologies for the entertainment value. Hopefully others are entertained, rather than irritated.)

    Also, happy start of Advent calendars, everyone! This year I have purchased a tea calendar, a wine calendar, and two gin calendars.

    One might think I have a drinking problem, but it's more that I've purchased way more than I am willing to drink, but love the drink advent calendars because it's a time when people are willing to sell things that come in small bottles, and thus nearer to my preference in drinking very small quantities.

    So I'll probably be celebrating advent calendars for a while.

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  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Adept on Thu Dec 1 23:50:30 2022
    The kebab is NOT German, and it's really that simple.

    ...so you're explaining how people choose their position on something,
    and then find reasons for it, so you might as well start with just
    stating the opinion as fact, and skip all that unnecessary fact finding that's just about strengthening one's position to oneself?

    Nice! A brilliant shortcut in psychology. Well demonstrated.


    The Kebab isn't German though. It's not of German origin. The only reason its popular is because of the large number of migrants from countries which have Kebabs.

    It really is that simple.

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  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Adept on Thu Dec 1 10:07:00 2022
    Adept wrote to Gamgee <=-

    It's not my *opinion* that

    ...yes it is.

    And that's a fact. Objective fact, that I have just proven to be
    objective fact by stating that it is an objective fact.

    (I'd go back to addressing the topic, but that ship sailed, and
    now I'm just having fun launching tautologies for the
    entertainment value. Hopefully others are entertained, rather
    than irritated.)

    I doubt anyone is entertained by poor writing styles.

    As for the topic, it is an easily-verified FACT that the kebab is not a
    German "invention". It's not just my opinion. Really not sure how you
    cannot understand such a simple thing, unless you're just being
    troll-ish after realizing you were wrong.


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  • From Nightfox to boraxman on Thu Dec 1 08:54:49 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: boraxman to Adept on Thu Dec 01 2022 11:50 pm

    The Kebab isn't German though. It's not of German origin. The only reason its popular is because of the large number of migrants from countries which have Kebabs.

    It really is that simple.

    I would agree. And here in the US, there is a lot of food from other countries that is popular, but I'm not aware of anyone in the US trying to claim that any of that food is American.

    Nightfox
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to boraxman on Thu Dec 1 21:05:09 2022
    The Kebab isn't German though. It's not of German origin. The only reason its popular is because of the large number of migrants from countries which have Kebabs.

    The potato isn't of German origin, either. And tomatoes aren't Italian.

    And Doener Kebab, in Germany, is a bit of a mixture between what's common in Turkey and a gyro from Greece, and is something that you don't get elsewhere.

    Clearly it's still strongly influenced by immigrants from Turkey. Just that the exact version is as German as the fortune cookie is American.

    Which has been my point from the beginning, as I was talking about General Tso's being an American dish, even though people get it at Chinese restaurants.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Gamgee on Thu Dec 1 21:05:50 2022
    I doubt anyone is entertained by poor writing styles.

    ...stop.

    We're done, here.

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  • From esc@21:4/173 to Adept on Thu Dec 1 14:36:22 2022
    And Doener Kebab, in Germany, is a bit of a mixture between what's
    common in Turkey and a gyro from Greece, and is something that you don't get elsewhere.

    Having spent a lot of time in various Middle Eastern countries as well as Germany, I don't personally agree with your assessment here. But I do enjoy reading the argument everyone is having for some reason lol.

    But yeah, the "is something that you don't get elsewhere" - full stop, this is not true. Speaking from a multitude of personal experience here. :)

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  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to esc on Thu Dec 1 20:34:00 2022
    esc wrote to Adept <=-

    And Doener Kebab, in Germany, is a bit of a mixture between what's
    common in Turkey and a gyro from Greece, and is something that you don't get elsewhere.

    Having spent a lot of time in various Middle Eastern countries as
    well as Germany, I don't personally agree with your assessment
    here. But I do enjoy reading the argument everyone is having for
    some reason lol.

    But yeah, the "is something that you don't get elsewhere" - full
    stop, this is not true. Speaking from a multitude of personal
    experience here. :)

    Be careful... Adept doesn't like being told she's wrong, even though
    MULTIPLE people here in this thread ALL agree that she is. Seems to
    hurt her feelings.

    I also have a large amount of food experience from actual time
    (measured in years) spent in Europe and the Middle East.



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  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Adept on Thu Dec 1 20:45:00 2022
    Adept wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I doubt anyone is entertained by poor writing styles.

    ...stop.
    We're done, here.

    Once again, you snip out ALL the context, in a vain attempt to further
    your point, which is still wrong. See my other messages today, and
    multiple other messages from other people, for confirmation. It's OK, everybody has been wrong now and then. ;-)



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  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Adept on Thu Dec 1 20:52:00 2022
    Adept wrote to boraxman <=-

    The Kebab isn't German though. It's not of German origin. The only reason its popular is because of the large number of migrants from countries which have Kebabs.

    The potato isn't of German origin, either. And tomatoes aren't
    Italian.

    The potato and the tomato are not a "dish". They're just ingredients.

    And Doener Kebab, in Germany, is a bit of a mixture between
    what's common in Turkey and a gyro from Greece, and is something
    that you don't get elsewhere.

    Wrong again. Simply not true.

    Clearly it's still strongly influenced by immigrants from Turkey.
    Just that the exact version is as German as the fortune cookie is American.

    I've seen Doener Kebab outside of Germany, and fortune cookies outside
    of America. See above re: wrong again.

    Which has been my point from the beginning, as I was talking
    about General Tso's being an American dish, even though people
    get it at Chinese restaurants.

    If you'll read the actual history of that dish, it was invented in
    Taiwan by a Chinese chef. Yes, he supposedly made it for some visiting general from the US. Still, the dish clearly belongs in the "Chinese
    food" genre, regardless of who first made it, or why.

    That's the difference in the argument about Kebabs. Perhaps there is a
    minor variation of that which is popular in Germany. No argument.
    But... that variation still falls into the "Middle-Eastern food" genre,
    not the "German food" genre. Not sure why you can't understand that.



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  • From apam@21:1/182 to Gamgee on Fri Dec 2 18:00:09 2022
    Clearly it's still strongly influenced by immigrants from Turkey.
    Just that the exact version is as German as the fortune cookie is American.

    I've seen Doener Kebab outside of Germany, and fortune cookies outside
    of America. See above re: wrong again.

    So reading this thread, it seems what adept is saying is Germans have a
    special kebab that they make which they call a Doener Kebab. We have
    Doener kebabs in Australia, but I don't know if they are the same as
    German ones, but we have a lot of german immigrants too.

    Who invented the sandwich? and can people invent types of sandwiches? I
    would say we invented the vegimite sandwich, but did not invent
    sandwiches. I would say american's invented peanut butter and jam (Sorry I
    just can't call it "jelly") sandwich (and they can keep it).

    A kebab is a lot like a sandwich, it's the fillings that make it
    different.

    Andrew


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  • From apam@21:1/182 to Gamgee on Fri Dec 2 18:04:08 2022
    I doubt anyone is entertained by poor writing styles.

    ...stop.
    We're done, here.

    Once again, you snip out ALL the context, in a vain attempt to further
    your point, which is still wrong.

    No.

    That was saying she's had enough of your conversation, not trying to
    further any point. Given that you've digressed into personal attacks,
    it's probably a good idea to stop.

    Andrew


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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Adept on Fri Dec 2 20:07:00 2022
    The kebab is NOT German, and it's really that simple.

    I suspect that while the kebab is not German, the German Kebab is.. kind of reminds me of one of the old arguments on Yes Minister... they want to call
    it the Emulsified High-Fat Offal Tubing... how about we just call it the british sausage... It might not be your kebab, but this is our/their kebab.

    We have similar here in "asian" restaurants. They bear no resemblence to
    the original foods at their point of origin. It becomes.. homogenised to fit the new market that it finds itself in. And probably also bear little resemblence to the same foods presented in different countries...

    Spec


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  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Adept on Fri Dec 2 23:50:26 2022
    The Kebab isn't German though. It's not of German origin. The only reason its popular is because of the large number of migrants from countries which have Kebabs.

    The potato isn't of German origin, either. And tomatoes aren't Italian.

    And Doener Kebab, in Germany, is a bit of a mixture between what's
    common in Turkey and a gyro from Greece, and is something that you don't get elsewhere.

    Clearly it's still strongly influenced by immigrants from Turkey. Just that the exact version is as German as the fortune cookie is American.

    Which has been my point from the beginning, as I was talking about
    General Tso's being an American dish, even though people get it at
    Chinese restaurants.


    There is no contradiction in the statement that the potato didn't originate in Germany, but certain potato based dishes are.

    The Kebab is not "strongly influenced by immigrants from Turkey". It IS a Meditteranean/Middle Eastern dish. It MAY be true to say the variant in Germany is a little different to the ones you get in Australia (I've had both). We have them here too.

    The Kebab is a bad example. A better example would be Chicken Tikka Masala, which did originate (most likely) in the UK (by immigrants though).

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  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to esc on Fri Dec 2 23:58:59 2022
    And Doener Kebab, in Germany, is a bit of a mixture between what's common in Turkey and a gyro from Greece, and is something that you do get elsewhere.

    Having spent a lot of time in various Middle Eastern countries as well as Germany, I don't personally agree with your assessment here. But I do enjoy reading the argument everyone is having for some reason lol.

    But yeah, the "is something that you don't get elsewhere" - full stop, this is not true. Speaking from a multitude of personal experience here. :)


    They do vary a little from country to country. In Australia, it is common to have lettuce in them and lamb. In Greece, its usually either Chicken or Pork, and chips and mustard are common. The "chips and mustard" was unheard of here 20 years ago, and more recently, has become avaialble, but nowhere near as ubiquitous as in Greece. Also, Australian souvlakis are generally bigger and costlier. In Germany, the "pocket kebabs" were popular, here again, not so much. Shawarma's were also popular in parts of Germany, but when I was there, I was looking for authentic German food, which seemed in some places, harder to get than Kebabs!

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  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to apam on Sat Dec 3 00:13:38 2022
    Clearly it's still strongly influenced by immigrants from Turkey. Just that the exact version is as German as the fortune cookie is American.

    I've seen Doener Kebab outside of Germany, and fortune cookies outside of America. See above re: wrong again.

    So reading this thread, it seems what adept is saying is Germans have a special kebab that they make which they call a Doener Kebab. We have Doener kebabs in Australia, but I don't know if they are the same as German ones, but we have a lot of german immigrants too.


    I've spent months in Europe, a notable portion of that in Germany where I have in-laws. The Doner Kebabs in Europe are a little different to the Souvlakis you'll find in a Fish and Chip store in Australia, which aren't like Souvlakis in Greece. Kebabs in Europe are largely the same, with minor variations depending on the region. They generally come in two types A Durum Kebab and a Doner Kebab (I think). One is in a pita pocket (the Doner Kebab) so a bit like a sandwich almost, the other in pita wrap. The Sandwich Style aren't that common in Australia (I've barely seem them) but popular in Germany and Austria. I think this is what Adept is referring to, that flat, pita-sandwich style presentation may be specific to Germany. But as its a variant of a Turkish dish, and was created by Turks, I don't think that makes it German, anymore than a Greek putting prawns in a Souvlaki in Melbourne makes Souvlaki's "Australian".

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  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to apam on Fri Dec 2 08:28:00 2022
    Hello apam!

    ** On Friday 02.12.22 - 18:00, apam wrote to Gamgee:

    [...] I would say american's invented peanut butter and jam
    (Sorry I just can't call it "jelly") sandwich (and they can
    keep it).

    afiak, jam and jelly re technically different things.


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  • From Nightfox to apam on Fri Dec 2 09:46:50 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: apam to Gamgee on Fri Dec 02 2022 06:00 pm

    Who invented the sandwich? and can people invent types of sandwiches? I

    Yes, I think people can invent new types of sandwiches. But as for your question about who invented the sandwich, that was John Montagu, the 4th Earl of Sandwich:
    https://earlofsandwichusa.com/who-we-are/

    Nightfox
  • From apam@21:1/182 to Ogg on Sat Dec 3 11:12:01 2022
    afiak, jam and jelly re technically different things.

    They are in Australia, jam is spread much like marmalade, jelly is wobbly
    stuff you make from jelly powder and hot water then put in the fridge.
    I'm not sure what americans call jelly? jello maybe?

    As far as I know, what we in australia call jam is what americans call
    jelly.

    Andrew


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  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to apam on Sat Dec 3 07:19:00 2022
    apam wrote to Gamgee <=-

    I doubt anyone is entertained by poor writing styles.

    ...stop.
    We're done, here.

    Once again, you snip out ALL the context, in a vain attempt to further
    your point, which is still wrong.

    No.

    That was saying she's had enough of your conversation, not trying
    to further any point. Given that you've digressed into personal
    attacks, it's probably a good idea to stop.

    See... the lack of context, and/or your vocabulary, have made you think
    that I've done some kind of "personal attack". My statement above about
    "poor writing styles" is simply a reference to her statement that she is "having fun launching tautologies". If you need to, go back and read
    her message that I was replying to, and see it for yourself. Then look
    up "tautology" and you'll understand why I said that. It was clearly
    not a personal attack, but the lack of quoting/context makes it appear
    that way.

    Over-snipping (to remove context) is a common problem (in my opinion). Sometimes it's just the poster's poor style/etiquette, and sometimes
    it's done intentionally, as I stated.

    So.... yes.



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  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to apam on Sat Dec 3 07:26:00 2022
    apam wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Clearly it's still strongly influenced by immigrants from Turkey.
    Just that the exact version is as German as the fortune cookie is American.

    I've seen Doener Kebab outside of Germany, and fortune cookies outside
    of America. See above re: wrong again.

    So reading this thread, it seems what adept is saying is Germans
    have a special kebab that they make which they call a Doener
    Kebab. We have Doener kebabs in Australia, but I don't know if
    they are the same as German ones, but we have a lot of german
    immigrants too.

    What she is calling a Doener kebab is mostly known here in America as a
    "gyro" or maybe a "schwarma". More of what most would call a
    "sandwich" in general. The actual definition of a kebab is just a skewered/cooked chunk of meat (often w/ veggies) on a stick/rod.

    Who invented the sandwich? and can people invent types of
    sandwiches? I would say we invented the vegimite sandwich, but
    did not invent sandwiches. I would say american's invented peanut
    butter and jam (Sorry I just can't call it "jelly") sandwich (and
    they can keep it).

    In America, jelly is a fruity substance which has no "bits/chunks" in
    it, and jam has bits/chunks. Jam is also known as "preserves". Either
    jam or jelly is a great companion to peanut butter between bread.

    A kebab is a lot like a sandwich, it's the fillings that make it different.

    I disagree with that. The kebab is just the cooked chunk of meat.
    Putting that into a wrapper of some kind makes it no longer a kebab, but
    now a sandwich/gyro/wrap. Of course I am speaking of American
    definitions of these words, and that difference in definitions may be a
    big part of the misunderstandings that are apparent in this thread.


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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to esc on Mon Dec 5 09:24:55 2022
    But yeah, the "is something that you don't get elsewhere" - full stop, this is not true. Speaking from a multitude of personal experience here. :)

    If true, fine, but the claim I was making at that point was in part reinforced by someone born in Germany who just spent two weeks in Turkey.

    But could you speak to what you think is the same? I know that kebab exists in lots of places, so if you've spent a lot of time trying a variety of dishes at German and Turkish kebab places, and found them to have the same menus, it'd be nice to hear more details on that experience.

    The whole, "You're clearly wrong" message just kind of irritates me, as it provides no data or reason for me to doubt my claim, and isn't presented in a, "hey, I disagree with your assessment" sort of way, just a, "you're stupid" kind of way. Which is more likely to make me think that people aren't even considering my opinion, thus there's no reason for me to consider theirs.

    Your message is definitely better, as you're saying you disagree because of your own personal assessment and expertise, and, sure, that's great. I'm more inclined to believe you, even though I doubt that 30 years+ of an ethnic cuisine in Germany is likely to have remained unchanged from being in Germany.

    And, even if it _were_ exactly the same, it's still a part of German culture, because it's possibly easier to find a Doener place than to find a place that primarily serves traditional German dishes.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Spectre on Mon Dec 5 09:45:40 2022
    I suspect that while the kebab is not German, the German Kebab is.. kind

    I mean, that's been my entire point. I didn't expect it to be particularly controversial, other than if/when I push to say that the German Kebab is as German as potato dishes.

    of reminds me of one of the old arguments on Yes Minister... they want
    to call it the Emulsified High-Fat Offal Tubing... how about we just
    call it the british sausage... It might not be your kebab, but this is our/their kebab.

    Hah! That does seem like an entertaining way to put it. Though Emulsified High-Fat Offal Tubing is clearly a tastier way to phrase it. (kidding, of course, though it _does_ have a lot of adjectives, and "British" might have negative connotations for food things, for some people)

    We have similar here in "asian" restaurants. They bear no resemblence to

    Yeah, makes sense. Though I'm not sure if I really have a firm mental image on what Australian food is, beyond the, "throw a shrimp on the barbie and drink a Foster's" that's probably as fair as American food being McDonald's and cheese product that comes from a can. And probably some light beer, but
    I'm honestly not sure which American beers make it out of the country.

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  • From esc@21:4/173 to Adept on Mon Dec 5 03:13:11 2022
    If true, fine, but the claim I was making at that point was in part reinforced by someone born in Germany who just spent two weeks in Turkey.

    Hey, I apologize for being combative here. We've all got different experiences. *shrug*

    I mean, currywurst is German, but is clearly influenced my Indian cuisine. Similarly, El Pastor food in Mexico is their take on Shawarma. But yeah, kebabs in my experience have always been Middle Eastern. Interestingly enough there is a (likely thousands year old) discussion about whether certain regional deserts are from Turkey or from Greece. Baklava comes to mind specifically.

    But could you speak to what you think is the same? I know that kebab exists in lots of places, so if you've spent a lot of time trying a variety of dishes at German and Turkish kebab places, and found them to have the same menus, it'd be nice to hear more details on that
    experience.

    The only non-Iraqi street food I ever had in Iraq was corn on the cob, of all things. The same can be said for Syria. Turkey, on the other hand, had a much more worldly selection. That said, grilled meat is fairly commonplace the world over, but 'kebab' is not a German word and the spices used in the meat preparation are common to the Middle East.

    The whole, "You're clearly wrong" message just kind of irritates me, as
    it provides no data or reason for me to doubt my claim, and isn't presented in a, "hey, I disagree with your assessment" sort of way, just a, "you're stupid" kind of way. Which is more likely to make me think
    that people aren't even considering my opinion, thus there's no reason
    for me to consider theirs.

    Yeah, you're right, and I apologize for how I phrased it. Cheers.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Adept on Mon Dec 5 06:33:00 2022
    Adept wrote to Spectre <=-

    but I'm honestly not sure which American beers make it
    out of the country.

    I was in London in 1999 and was shocked to walk into a pub and see almost everyone drinking Budweiser. I went ahead and ordered a hand-pulled pint of bitters and looked at my co-worker's bottle. The label said Budsweiser, but the fine print said "Brewed by Watney's in London".


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to esc on Mon Dec 5 06:35:00 2022
    esc wrote to Adept <=-

    Interestingly enough there is a (likely thousands year old) discussion about whether certain regional deserts are from Turkey or from Greece. Baklava comes to mind specifically.

    Turkish/Greek coffee is identical, and either nationality will argue to the ends of the earth that they invented it.


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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to esc on Mon Dec 5 17:33:04 2022
    Hey, I apologize for being combative here. We've all got different experiences. *shrug*

    Really, no offense taken, on my part. I was certainly expressing some frustration, but I appreciated that you did at least do an appeal to expertise, where you claimed to know more because of your travels.

    And sorry for any shortness I had, or if I got too... spicy? in previous messages. I love a nice discussion, even when it's, "No, I totally disagree with your take on...", but, really, I like when it's friendly, here, and hopefully I'm a net positive.

    And I do appreciate your response, here:

    a, "you're stupid" kind of way. Which is more likely to make me think that people aren't even considering my opinion, thus there's no reaso for me to consider theirs.

    Yeah, you're right, and I apologize for how I phrased it. Cheers.

    ...though I wouldn't say it's necessary; just trying to talk through how my response can be, whether fair or not.

    Anyway! Back to the discussion.

    fairly commonplace the world over, but 'kebab' is not a German word and the spices used in the meat preparation are common to the Middle East.

    Yeah, to be fair, I've mostly been saying "kebab" because it's almost always "Doner", here, but with an umlaut above an o instead of "o", and I'm presently unable to send an umlaut'd o through MagiTerm.

    And I'm not really sure where Doner would be from, or even what it means. And "kebab" I tend to think of being, "meat on a stick", but in the served-on-a-stick sense, rather than the shaved-off-a-meat-hunk sense.

    ...and I think that's just wrong, but in the, "everyone uses a different definition than what I internalized" sense.

    But it's doubtlessly the Doner twist that's more German.

    On that note, one other weird aside here, is that, since I'm vegetarian but don't particularly like falafel, I don't have much in the way of options at most Doner Kebab places. But there's a vegetarian place that's within walking distance of me, which I'm delighted by, especially as the guy claims it's his own unique preparation.

    As in, while I've been to at least one other vegetarian Doner place, he didn't borrow his version from other people, and was unaware of others doing it at all.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Dec 5 17:39:24 2022
    I was in London in 1999 and was shocked to walk into a pub and see
    almost everyone drinking Budweiser. I went ahead and ordered a hand-pulled pint of bitters and looked at my co-worker's bottle. The label said Budsweiser, but the fine print said "Brewed by Watney's in London".

    Doesn't Budweiser traditionally have multiple breweries around the US (and evidently world), and then have people who travel between them to continually do testing to make sure that they manage to taste the same?

    At least I thought I read something like that. Certainly, brewing locally makes a lot more sense than shipping liquids around.

    But really only reasonable to brew locally if one can sell enough to justify it.

    But okay, probably more Budweiser than other things. I'm kinda wondering if I could get a Miller Light here, or random craft brews that really did get shipped over.

    ...but not wondering enough to go shopping, as I'm bad enough with buying more wine and gin than I will get remotely close to finishing.

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  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Poindexter Fortran on Mon Dec 5 13:00:25 2022

    I was in London in 1999 and was shocked to walk into a pub and see almost everyone drinking Budweiser. I went ahead and ordered a hand-pulled pint
    of bitters and looked at my co-worker's bottle. The label said
    Budsweiser, but the fine print said "Brewed by Watney's in London".

    That is very cool. I guess they have separate places it is brewed - which makes sence. Less to ship around all over the world.

    I think I'll have to have a few Budweisers here shortly since I took the day off today...

    - Mark
       
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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Spectre on Mon Dec 5 12:12:18 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Spectre to Adept on Fri Dec 02 2022 08:07 pm

    The kebab is NOT German, and it's really that simple.

    I suspect that while the kebab is not German, the German Kebab is.. kind of reminds me of one of the old arguments on Yes Minister... they want to call it the Emulsified High-Fat Offal Tubing... how about we just call it the british sausage... It might not be your kebab, but this is our/their kebab.


    That is a lot like saying that Kukris are a Western type of knife because Kukri knives manufactured in the West have a tendency to sport certain traits (shorter blade, wider blade). That argument does not fly. Kukris are clearly Asian and then there are the modern Western imitations.

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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Adept on Tue Dec 6 04:22:00 2022
    But could you speak to what you think is the same? I know that kebab exists in lots of places, so if you've spent a lot of time trying a variety of dishes at German and Turkish kebab places, and found them to have the same menus, it'd be nice to hear more details on that experience.

    der echte deutsche Döner würde Wurst enthalten :)

    Spec


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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Adept on Tue Dec 6 04:36:00 2022
    Yeah, makes sense. Though I'm not sure if I really have a firm mental image on what Australian food is, beyond the, "throw a shrimp on the barbie and drink a Foster's" that's probably as fair as American food being McDonald's and cheese product that comes from a can. And probably

    You coming the raw prawn there? We don't have no shrimps.. aside from small people. And I don't actually know anyone that'd throw a prawn on the barbie either, mind you I have a thing against food with exoskeletons and shells..

    That Fosters swill, is what they send or brew overseas to call Australian, but you can't even buy it here. The "Australian" beer is probably a local more local than one might expect.. Victoria Bitter - Victoria, a oddly enough.
    XXXX for Queenslanders because they can't spell be Not being much of a
    beer drinker myself, you'd have to look up the other locals... Tooheys, Coopers, Cascade, not sure what else...

    Spec


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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Arelor on Tue Dec 6 17:58:00 2022
    That is a lot like saying that Kukris are a Western type of knife because Kukri knives manufactured in the West have a tendency to sport
    certain traits (shorter blade, wider blade). That argument does not
    fly. Kukris are clearly Asian and then there are the modern Western

    Sure it flies, you take your wonky western "Kukris" over to shonkyland
    wherever they may originate and I'm sure they'll laugh at it, and call it something else. Probably far less flattering...and not a Kukris..

    Spec


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  • From esc@21:4/173 to Spectre on Tue Dec 6 01:20:55 2022
    Sure it flies, you take your wonky western "Kukris" over to shonkyland

    I have no idea what this conversation is about hahaha. This cracked me up.

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  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Spectre on Tue Dec 6 23:42:26 2022
    Yeah, makes sense. Though I'm not sure if I really have a firm mental image on what Australian food is, beyond the, "throw a shrimp on the barbie and drink a Foster's" that's probably as fair as American food being McDonald's and cheese product that comes from a can. And probab

    You coming the raw prawn there? We don't have no shrimps.. aside from small people. And I don't actually know anyone that'd throw a prawn on the barbie either, mind you I have a thing against food with
    exoskeletons and shells..

    That Fosters swill, is what they send or brew overseas to call
    Australian, but you can't even buy it here. The "Australian" beer is probably a local more local than one might expect.. Victoria Bitter - Victoria, a oddly enough. XXXX for Queenslanders because they can't
    spell be Not being much of a beer drinker myself, you'd have to look
    up the other locals... Tooheys, Coopers, Cascade, not sure what else...

    Spec



    The only time I ever drank Fosters was when I was in Germany at a bar with backpackers. I only drank it to "live up to the stereotype" and had to explain to them, we don't drink this back home, and for good reason. We've got much better beer to choose from.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Spectre on Tue Dec 6 14:59:32 2022
    You coming the raw prawn there? We don't have no shrimps.. aside from small people. And I don't actually know anyone that'd throw a prawn on the barbie either, mind you I have a thing against food with

    Yeah, I think it's just some backwards thing I heard about from Outback Steakhouse commercials at some point in time.

    That Fosters swill, is what they send or brew overseas to call
    Australian, but you can't even buy it here. The "Australian" beer is

    Seems about right.

    probably a local more local than one might expect.. Victoria Bitter - Victoria, a oddly enough. XXXX for Queenslanders because they can't

    Yeah, I do tend to think of beer as a generally local product -- if the brewmaster doesn't live in the area (or bottles were directly exported from wherever the maker lives), it's mass-produced, least-common-denominator drinks. That, sure, are probably acceptable much of the time, but not particularly compelling.

    But, on the other hand, "mass-produced, least-common-denominator drinks" also avoid some of the... unpleasantly-flavored versions that surely exist. You know what you're getting.

    That said, I do imagine there's some more-unique Australian wines out there, but my knowledge of Australian wine is mostly just mass-produced things that are unlikely to be sublime.

    ...though alcohol is generally wasted on me, anyway.

    spell be Not being much of a beer drinker myself, you'd have to look
    up the other locals... Tooheys, Coopers, Cascade, not sure what else...

    What's something more "Australian" that you do consume?

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Spectre on Tue Dec 6 06:56:00 2022
    Spectre wrote to Adept <=-

    Australian, but you can't even buy it here. The "Australian" beer is probably a local more local than one might expect.. Victoria Bitter - Victoria, a oddly enough. XXXX for Queenslanders because they can't
    spell be Not being much of a beer drinker myself, you'd have to look
    up the other locals... Tooheys, Coopers, Cascade, not sure what else...

    I loved the beer scene in England, you'd have pubs owned by regional
    breweries and get beer made locally.

    I lived in the SOMA area of San Francisco, and one bar was 5 blocks from the Anchor brewery. Their Anchor Steam beer tasted significantly better than anywhere else, and I'm sure it went straight into the keg and down the
    street.


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  • From Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Dec 6 09:07:52 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Spectre on Tue Dec 06 2022 06:56 am

    I loved the beer scene in England, you'd have pubs owned by regional breweries and get beer made locally.

    There are a few of those in Oregon. I briefly lived in Bend, OR and there's a Deschutes Brewwery pub there where they make beer locally.

    Nightfox
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Spectre on Tue Dec 6 13:27:24 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Spectre to Arelor on Tue Dec 06 2022 05:58 pm

    That is a lot like saying that Kukris are a Western type of knife becau Kukri knives manufactured in the West have a tendency to sport
    certain traits (shorter blade, wider blade). That argument does not fly. Kukris are clearly Asian and then there are the modern Western

    Sure it flies, you take your wonky western "Kukris" over to shonkyland wherever they may originate and I'm sure they'll laugh at it, and call it something else. Probably far less flattering...and not a Kukris..

    Spec


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    I am sure the guys who invented the Kopis would laugh at a Kurki. I don't really get the argument.

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  • From Irish_Monk@21:4/184 to Nightfox on Tue Dec 6 20:41:05 2022
    It seems some places have a General Tso's Chicken dish and some don't. Also, it seems it can be inconsistent depending on which restaurant you get it from (but that's about true for any Chinese dish). Usually it's breaded and fried chicken in a sauce that I'd call sweet and spicy (or savory).

    Nightfox

    Definitely one of my favorites for sure with White Rice! But, yes, depending on where you go it can be a little different from place to place.

    |10I|02rish_|10M|02onk

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  • From Ganiman@21:3/174 to Irish_Monk on Wed Dec 7 00:26:11 2022
    Definitely one of my favorites for sure with White Rice! But, yes, depending on where you go it can be a little different from place to place.

    So what is the best place for it in Griswold? I'm wondering what you think now lol

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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Adept on Wed Dec 7 03:06:00 2022
    Yeah, I think it's just some backwards thing I heard about from Outback Steakhouse commercials at some point in time.

    The little I've heard about Outback Steakhouse, it has nothing to do with Austraya mate...

    That said, I do imagine there's some more-unique Australian wines out there, but my knowledge of Australian wine is mostly just mass-produced things that are unlikely to be sublime.

    Ha! Probably the biggest contribution to wine from Austraya, is the "Goon
    Bag", being the guts out of cask wine.. chuckle. Not much of a wine drinker either aside from the odd red occasionally. Finding a wine I enjoy is rather hard work. There are some wines out of WA that are meant to be flash, and we grow almost every grape variety there is, but some of our vin ordinaire is meant to punch above its weight.

    What's something more "Australian" that you do consume?

    To pop out of left field, there's always Bundaberg Ginger Beer, its a brewed softdrink.. no alcohol.. cold one on a hot day... hmmm also seens to work
    with some flavours of asian food.

    In the past, I've tended to prefer spirits but I can't say we have anything much exciting there. We do some mead thats worth trying, I tend to prefer the spiced brew. And if you've really got the cold day and a good book, the odd port can be pretty spiffy too.

    Mead

    https://www.firstchoiceliquor.com.au/white-wine/maxwell-spiced-mead-750ml_9935 800

    Port

    https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_904810/mcwilliam-s-hanwood-estate-5yo -tawny

    https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_73121/galway-pipe-12-year-old-grand-t awny

    Ginger Beer

    https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/203552

    Spec


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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Dec 7 03:17:00 2022
    I loved the beer scene in England, you'd have pubs owned by regional breweries and get beer made locally.

    Not sure that's still a thing here. Back in the late 80s early 90s we had a number of them turn up. Pretty sure the station tavern was set up like that, its gone now..

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/tidalpix/2934039396

    Yup had the old S class Victorian Railways locomotive hanging out the front wall. Had its brewery setup out the back with windows you could peer in at
    it. Also had a model railway that ran around the top of the bar.

    Spec


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  • From Nightfox to Spectre on Thu Dec 8 10:32:58 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Spectre to Adept on Wed Dec 07 2022 03:06 am

    What's something more "Australian" that you do consume?

    To pop out of left field, there's always Bundaberg Ginger Beer, its a brewed softdrink.. no alcohol.. cold one on a hot day... hmmm also seens

    I live in the US, and one day I saw a (supposedly Australian) ginger beer at a store and decided to try one. The flavor was very intense and strong, and almost gave me a stomach ache.. I thought it might be similar to ginger ale - I'm used to drinking Canada Dry ginger ale (and similar), which is more mild and sometimes I feel like that can help my stomach if I'm having stomach issues.

    Nightfox
  • From ogg@21:2/147 to Nightfox on Thu Dec 8 14:11:45 2022
    strong, and almost gave me a stomach ache.. I thought it might be
    similar to ginger ale - I'm used to drinking Canada Dry ginger ale (and similar), which is more mild and sometimes I feel like that can help my stomach if I'm having stomach issues.

    Nightfox

    This makes me think of Vernor's ginger ale!

    ogg
    Sysop, Altair IV BBS
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  • From Nightfox to ogg on Thu Dec 8 12:22:20 2022
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: ogg to Nightfox on Thu Dec 08 2022 02:11 pm

    strong, and almost gave me a stomach ache.. I thought it might be
    similar to ginger ale - I'm used to drinking Canada Dry ginger ale
    (and similar), which is more mild and sometimes I feel like that can
    help my stomach if I'm having stomach issues.

    This makes me think of Vernor's ginger ale!

    I actually like Vernor's.

    Nightfox
  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Nightfox on Fri Dec 9 14:15:00 2022
    I live in the US, and one day I saw a (supposedly Australian) ginger beer at a store and decided to try one. The flavor was very intense and strong, and almost gave me a stomach ache.. I thought it might be similar to ginger ale - I'm used to drinking Canada Dry ginger ale (and similar), which is more mild and sometimes I feel like that can help my stomach if I'm having stomach issues.

    Odd ginger is generally considered to be a good thing for an upset stomach, even some of the travel sickness tablets have it in them. Its wildly
    different to ginger ale, which here is about 150% synthetic. Its probably a more intense taste, with less actual bite than ginger ale has. Not sure if
    our stomachs are made of sterner stuff or the brew you got is different to ours. I guess the question is, was it brewed locally or here? If its local then I can't really make much of a comparison, if its ex-Australia, then
    thats probably pretty much the way it is. I know its not everyones cup of
    tea. Bundaberg actually do a brewed sarsaparilla which isn't bad either.

    Spec


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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Nightfox on Fri Dec 9 14:17:00 2022
    To pop out of left field, there's always Bundaberg Ginger Beer, its a

    I forgot, there are other brands here of "brewed ginger beer". I think Bundy
    is generally accepted as the best. Some of the others vary from being close,
    to being like dishwater. Hmm Saxby can't think who else off hand for
    alternate brands.

    Spec


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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Spectre on Fri Dec 9 12:06:36 2022
    Yeah, I think it's just some backwards thing I heard about from Outba Steakhouse commercials at some point in time.

    The little I've heard about Outback Steakhouse, it has nothing to do with Austraya mate...

    Yeah. I figured it was more caricature than reality.

    But I'm not sure if I've even eaten there, and if I have, it's been years.

    Ha! Probably the biggest contribution to wine from Austraya, is the "Goon Bag", being the guts out of cask wine.. chuckle. Not much of a wine

    That... doesn't sound either flattering or tasty, but _does_ sound entertaining.

    enjoy is rather hard work. There are some wines out of WA that are meant to be flash, and we grow almost every grape variety there is, but some
    of our vin ordinaire is meant to punch above its weight.

    I think most places that make wine end up with various places that can make very good wine.

    To pop out of left field, there's always Bundaberg Ginger Beer, its a brewed softdrink.. no alcohol.. cold one on a hot day... hmmm also seens to work with some flavours of asian food.

    Those I've had, never particularly thought of as Australian, and thought were quite good.

    But I like ginger beers and root beers, with the spicier they are, the better.

    good book, the odd port can be pretty spiffy too.

    Interesting! Though, sadly, I think port is another thing that's especially lost on me -- fortified wines tend to be too sweet for me, or too high on the alcohol flavor.

    But it does sound like a pleasant evening and scenario.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Spectre on Fri Dec 9 08:04:00 2022
    Spectre wrote to Adept <=-

    That said, I do imagine there's some more-unique Australian wines out there, but my knowledge of Australian wine is mostly just mass-produced things that are unlikely to be sublime.

    "quaffable, but not yet transcendent..."

    Ha! Probably the biggest contribution to wine from Austraya, is the
    "Goon Bag", being the guts out of cask wine.. chuckle. Not much of a
    wine drinker either aside from the odd red occasionally. Finding a wine
    I enjoy is rather hard work. There are some wines out of WA that are
    meant to be flash, and we grow almost every grape variety there is, but some of our vin ordinaire is meant to punch above its weight.

    Their Pinots noir are nice. I live on the California coast, and our climate
    is cool and moist, with lots of morning fog. All of the pinots here have the same presentation - lots of dark cherry. They're some of my favorites, as I suffer from Cabernet Sauvignon burnout - Napa Valley and sonoma got too
    oakey, too alcohol-laden.

    What's something more "Australian" that you do consume?

    To pop out of left field, there's always Bundaberg Ginger Beer, its a brewed softdrink.. no alcohol.. cold one on a hot day... hmmm also
    seens to work with some flavours of asian food.

    One of my old callers went on the wagon and started drinking ginger beer at parties. They're distinctive.

    He disappeared for a month off my BBS, and we wondered where he'd gone off
    to. He re-appeared with a post detailing all the things he'd learned when he stopped drinking. I don't remember any of them except number 5:

    "I didn't realize until I stopped drinking that I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DANCE."


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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Adept on Sat Dec 10 08:10:00 2022
    That... doesn't sound either flattering or tasty, but _does_ sound entertaining.

    I think the original idea, was convenience and not using glass. But it
    became the home of the super budget wine brigade.. and the kind of customer that that attracts. So not very flattering and of dubious taste.

    Those I've had, never particularly thought of as Australian, and thought were quite good.

    I'm sure we're not the only ones that make it. We do have quite the ginger production going on in Queensland though and one of the side effects was starting up the Budderim Brewery, although its moved these days. So "Bundabarg" is probably a pretty Australian take on your ginger beer.

    Interesting! Though, sadly, I think port is another thing that's especially lost on me -- fortified wines tend to be too sweet for me, or too high on the alcohol flavor.

    It might be to hard, but you probably just need to find one that suits. They can vary wildly. You can also blend fortified wines to open up a whole new field. If you've got some to sweet and some to alcoholic you could just proportion it out for something that floats your boat.

    In the same vein if you find something you like and its hiddeously expensive, you can buy a bottle of it, a larger quantity of something cheaper, and a bit o' brandy. Mix it all in a cask and let it sit for some time, you'll end up with something close to what you're looking for. :)

    Spec


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  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Dec 9 16:08:57 2022
    "quaffable, but not yet transcendent..."

    I've come never to expect much from a Cab Franc and this one is no different...

    Please tell me we're quoting the same brilliant film. :)

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  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Dec 9 16:10:55 2022
    Their Pinots noir are nice. I live on the California coast, and our climate is cool and moist, with lots of morning fog. All of the pinots here have the same presentation - lots of dark cherry. They're some of
    my favorites, as I suffer from Cabernet Sauvignon burnout - Napa Valley and sonoma got too oakey, too alcohol-laden.

    Oak is the American way :( It's all vanilla and no fruit. It's a bummer.

    I've come to love Paso wines because of how well they taste like Rhone wines. I'm a Californian through and through but our wine in the USA is trash :P With exceptions, like...Paso!

    Plus the GSM is the blend of the gods. I can drink GSM and nothing else for the rest of my days. Except, maybe, for a Burgundy pinot or a Jean Luis Chave Hermitage Rouge...but I digress.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to esc on Sat Dec 10 10:12:00 2022
    esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    "quaffable, but not yet transcendent..."

    I've come never to expect much from a Cab Franc and this one is no different...

    Please tell me we're quoting the same brilliant film. :)

    Yes, we are. I was just in Paso Robles last weekend, the region must have reminded me.

    The tasting rooms were standing room only, and many were reservation only
    (and full). It might be time to find the next up-and-coming wine region,
    Paso is here now. :(


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  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Dec 12 13:20:52 2022
    Yes, we are. I was just in Paso Robles last weekend, the region must
    have reminded me.

    Nice! Land of the amazing GSMs! My favorite spot.

    The tasting rooms were standing room only, and many were reservation
    only (and full). It might be time to find the next up-and-coming wine region, Paso is here now. :(

    Well, that's unfortunate. We got married in Paso in May and suspected something like this might happen.

    Paso's weird though because the region feels very blue collar, right wing...not traditionally what I've come to expect from a California wine region. Maybe this will change a bit as more people infiltrate the area haha.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to esc on Tue Dec 13 06:39:00 2022
    esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Well, that's unfortunate. We got married in Paso in May and suspected something like this might happen.

    I was waiting for it. I started wine tasting in Napa first, then moved out
    to Sonoma, then Dry Creek/Healdsburg - trying to move away from the crowds. Discovered Paso Robles back in 1997 or so and have enjoyed the wines and the region. I'm a member of Turley's club now.

    Paso's weird though because the region feels very blue collar, right wing...not traditionally what I've come to expect from a California
    wine region. Maybe this will change a bit as more people infiltrate the area haha.

    It was a bit scary in the middle of COVID; we took a day trip down there and there were a lot of trucks with TRUMP flags, not many masks, many MAGA hats, and seating outside in restaurants was packed. We ended up not feeling comfortable dining and instead drove home and got take-out from one of our favorite local restaurants.

    The attitude was that COVID lockdowns were based on emergency room and ICU sharing, and since the Paso area was in the same zone as LA county, it was "those city people" who were causing the lockdowns, not the locals. Paso was just fine. At least that's what the local paper said.




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  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Dec 13 11:26:54 2022
    I was waiting for it. I started wine tasting in Napa first, then moved
    out to Sonoma, then Dry Creek/Healdsburg - trying to move away from the crowds. Discovered Paso Robles back in 1997 or so and have enjoyed the wines and the region. I'm a member of Turley's club now.

    Ah, nice. We are members at DAOU, Le Cuvier, and LaVenture. And I very rarely drink these days which means our wine storage is packed...and these wines are now investment items!

    It was a bit scary in the middle of COVID; we took a day trip down there and there were a lot of trucks with TRUMP flags, not many masks, many MAGA hats, and seating outside in restaurants was packed. We ended up
    not feeling comfortable dining and instead drove home and got take-out from one of our favorite local restaurants.

    Yeah, we like renting RVs and we've noticed the RV parks in Paso are like rightwing carnivals lol. But, everyone is out having a good time so I've never seen folks with differences of opinion going after each other.

    The last time we were there, we were having a snack and some wine with the people in the RV next to ours. They started ranting about student loan forgiveness, and I just kept my mouth shut to keep the peace.

    The attitude was that COVID lockdowns were based on emergency room and
    ICU sharing, and since the Paso area was in the same zone as LA county, it was "those city people" who were causing the lockdowns, not the locals. Paso was just fine. At least that's what the local paper said.

    Yeah...can't say I'm surprised lol.

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  • From niter3@21:1/199 to Nightfox on Fri Jan 6 05:43:50 2023
    On 08 Dec 2022, Nightfox said the following...

    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Spectre to Adept on Wed Dec 07 2022 03:06 am

    What's something more "Australian" that you do consume?

    To pop out of left field, there's always Bundaberg Ginger Beer, its a brewed softdrink.. no alcohol.. cold one on a hot day... hmmm also se

    I live in the US, and one day I saw a (supposedly Australian) ginger
    beer at a store and decided to try one. The flavor was very intense and strong, and almost gave me a stomach ache.. I thought it might be
    similar to ginger ale - I'm used to drinking Canada Dry ginger ale (and similar), which is more mild and sometimes I feel like that can help my stomach if I'm having stomach issues.

    The good old days. After a long day of throwing up, my mother would offer me a ginger ale pop to calm my stomach.

    Until this cay, when I see or have a ginger ale, I think of vomit. :)

    ... "No comment" is a comment.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jan 9 16:17:24 2023
    Their Pinots noir are nice. I live on the California coast, and our climate is cool and moist, with lots of morning fog. All of the pinots here have the same presentation - lots of dark cherry. They're some of
    my favorites, as I suffer from Cabernet Sauvignon burnout - Napa Valley and sonoma got too oakey, too alcohol-laden.

    Pinot Noir is my favorite among common reds (I really liked a Marquette (grape type) wine I tasted, once, but since then have _never_ seen the grape available elsewhere, and I've looked.), and, yeah, too oak-y, too alcohol-laden does seem to be a common problem among many wines, if less so with Pinot Noir.

    And, on that note, eventually I'll get around to trying some German Pinot Noirs (I think they're normally listed as "Spaetburgunder"), as it seems plausible that some German red wine might be benefiting from climate change.

    Though wine is difficult -- I don't drink very much, so it's hard to justify buying a bottle of wine when I want a quarter of a glass. So it requires a certain type of friends, in certain situations, and oftentimes a storage place is also a good idea.

    I _did_ go through a wine advent calendar. But, unfortunately, the reds were almost uniformly table wines at _best_. But there were four or five Rieslings out of the 24 bottles (100ml bottles, so I didn't feel bad drinking the amount I did.), and, while I'm not a huge fan of Rieslings, they were reliably at least decent.

    But, on that note, I've drunk more gin. Easier to find small bottles, and more reasonable to just close them up again to theoretically drink later.

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  • From StormTrooper@21:2/108 to Adept on Fri Jan 13 11:12:52 2023
    Pinot Noir is my favorite among common reds (I really liked a Marquette

    Tends to get thought of as a pink here, more than a red.. and lost somewhere in between.

    ST

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to StormTrooper on Fri Jan 13 15:28:05 2023
    Pinot Noir is my favorite among common reds (I really liked a Marquet

    Tends to get thought of as a pink here, more than a red.. and lost somewhere in between.

    Huh. Though I _do_ tend to like Rose' wines, and the stronger red wines tend to just be too much for me, so it seems reasonable enough that it'd be a sweet spot for me.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Adept on Thu Jan 12 06:10:00 2023
    Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    But, on that note, I've drunk more gin. Easier to find small bottles,
    and more reasonable to just close them up again to theoretically drink later.

    There's a lot to be said for the return of cocktails. A friend brought
    vodka and gin to our New Year's Eve party, and made a couple of
    wonderful mixed drinks.

    I stuck to Salty Dogs - vodka and grapefruit juice with a salted rim and
    a grapefruit wedge as garnish.



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  • From StormTrooper@21:2/108 to Adept on Sat Jan 14 10:18:56 2023
    Tends to get thought of as a pink here, more than a red.. and lost somewhere in between.

    Huh. Though I _do_ tend to like Rose' wines, and the stronger red wines tend to just be too much for me, so it seems reasonable enough that it'd be a sweet spot for me.

    Sorry, not having a crack at your choice or palate. More of a local observation which I see lost half its description. Pinot tends to be thought of here as pink, and often gets lost between those that claim it as red, and those that claim it as white. Not tried it myself.. I tend to be a red drinker if I'm having to drink wine for some reason.

    ST

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to StormTrooper on Sun Jan 15 14:22:34 2023
    Sorry, not having a crack at your choice or palate. More of a local observation which I see lost half its description. Pinot tends to be thought of here as pink, and often gets lost between those that claim it as red, and those that claim it as white. Not tried it myself.. I tend
    to be a red drinker if I'm having to drink wine for some reason.

    Yeah, no offense taken on that -- I know a lot of people look down on rose' wines, but I'm not in that category.

    I'll generally prefer reds, too, but I like the lighter reds, generally. E.g., Cabernet Sauvingnon is too intense for me to get much enjoyment out of, but Pinot Noirs I like, and Red Zinfandels.

    But, if a winery only makes good white wines (like my experience with my wine calendar, where the red wines were watery or uninteresting), then better to drink a good white wine.

    And, all that said, wine is oftentimes lost on me, anyway. But I like the experience of tasting things, and, to a decent extent, documenting the experience.

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  • From Geri Atricks@21:4/102 to Nightfox on Fri Jan 6 04:59:26 2023
    I live in the US, and one day I saw a (supposedly Australian) ginger
    beer at a store and decided to try one. The flavor was very intense and strong, and almost gave me a stomach ache.. I thought it might be
    similar to ginger ale - I'm used to drinking Canada Dry ginger ale (and similar), which is more mild and sometimes I feel like that can help my stomach if I'm having stomach issues.

    Ginger Beer and Ginger Ale are two COMPLETELY different drinks.

    Ginger IS good for an upset stomach, so is pepermint. I keep a box of Pepermint Tea on hand for just such reasons.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Geri Atricks on Thu Jan 19 10:55:52 2023
    Ginger Beer and Ginger Ale are two COMPLETELY different drinks.

    I mean, they're both non-alcoholic fizzy drinks with ginger flavor...

    (But agreed)

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  • From Geri Atricks@21:4/102 to Adept on Thu Jan 19 12:48:20 2023
    Ginger Beer and Ginger Ale are two COMPLETELY different drinks.

    I mean, they're both non-alcoholic fizzy drinks with ginger flavor...

    incorrect, Ginger Beer IS alcoholic.

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  • From Nightfox to Geri Atricks on Thu Jan 19 13:18:39 2023
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Geri Atricks to Adept on Thu Jan 19 2023 12:48 pm

    incorrect, Ginger Beer IS alcoholic.

    I bought ginger beer once at a soda/candy store.. It wasn't in a separate alcoholic section (actually that store does not have such a section) and I wasn't asked for ID or anything. I didn't think it was alcoholic when I drank it, as it didn't have that taste.

    Ginger ale isn't alcoholic, yet it has "ale" in the name..

    Nightfox
  • From StormTrooper@21:2/108 to Geri Atricks on Fri Jan 20 11:17:37 2023
    incorrect, Ginger Beer IS alcoholic.

    It can be, and there's the odd one here that is, but generally they aren't.

    ST

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  • From Warpslide@21:3/110 to Nightfox on Fri Jan 20 07:43:58 2023
    On 19 Jan 2023, Nightfox said the following...

    I bought ginger beer once at a soda/candy store.. It wasn't in a
    separate alcoholic section (actually that store does not have such a section) and I wasn't asked for ID or anything. I didn't think it was alcoholic when I drank it, as it didn't have that taste.

    Ginger ale isn't alcoholic, yet it has "ale" in the name..

    Same here in Canada. Ginger Ale has a ginger taste while Ginger Beer is usually more intense/spicy and has a pirate on the label.

    Neither contain alcohol.

    https://ibb.co/vYcxdGJ


    Jay

    ... If a redhead goes crazy, is it called a ginger snap?

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Geri Atricks on Fri Jan 20 19:55:13 2023
    Ginger Beer and Ginger Ale are two COMPLETELY different drinks.

    I mean, they're both non-alcoholic fizzy drinks with ginger flavor...

    incorrect, Ginger Beer IS alcoholic.

    From
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_beer

    "usually non-alcoholic"

    I think, traditionally, it'd be that ginger beer is fermented, thus creating its own bubbles, and ginger ale adds the carbon dioxide directly.

    But evidently even _that_ isn't true, with current ginger beers being manufactured rather than brewed, which makes me question why they aren't just strong ginger ales.

    And, I guess if you're going for, "and there's any alcohol in it at all", then any brewed ginger beer _should_ have alcohol; just not enough to qualify as an "alcoholic beverage", at least in the US.

    But I imagine that regulations vary.

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  • From StormTrooper@21:2/108 to Adept on Fri Jan 20 20:19:43 2023
    I think, traditionally, it'd be that ginger beer is fermented, thus creating its own bubbles, and ginger ale adds the carbon dioxide
    directly.

    The "Bundaberg Ginger Beer" claims to be "traditionally" brewed. Although the theory is slightly different, you brew a cup of tea, but I'm not seeing alcohol there. I'm reasonably sure there's a distiction between brewing something and fermenting something, which may or not be part of the same process.

    On the flipside if the process is heated, it may be sufficient to cook off any alcohol produced.

    ST

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  • From Geri Atricks@21:4/102 to Nightfox on Thu Jan 19 16:32:41 2023
    I bought ginger beer once at a soda/candy store.. It wasn't in a
    separate alcoholic section (actually that store does not have such a section) and I wasn't asked for ID or anything. I didn't think it was alcoholic when I drank it, as it didn't have that taste.

    The only Ginger Beer I've ever had was bought at a liquor store and was like 7% alcohol if I remember correctly.

    Canada Dry Ginger Ale is about the only one I can drink, every other brand I've tried burned my tongue.

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  • From Nightfox to Geri Atricks on Mon Feb 6 10:43:07 2023
    Re: Re: Help me here .. I am confused ?
    By: Geri Atricks to Nightfox on Thu Jan 19 2023 04:32 pm

    I bought ginger beer once at a soda/candy store.. It wasn't in a
    separate alcoholic section (actually that store does not have such a
    section) and I wasn't asked for ID or anything. I didn't think it
    was alcoholic when I drank it, as it didn't have that taste.

    The only Ginger Beer I've ever had was bought at a liquor store and was like 7% alcohol if I remember correctly.

    Although it was called ginger "beer", I don't think the stuff I've tried had any alcohol in it. It was sold at a candy/soda store and I wasn't asked for my ID when I bought it. Similarly, none of the ginger "ale" I've drank has had any alcohol in it either.

    Nightfox
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Geri Atricks on Tue Feb 7 06:37:00 2023
    Geri Atricks wrote to Nightfox <=-

    The only Ginger Beer I've ever had was bought at a liquor store and was like 7% alcohol if I remember correctly.

    I thought most ginger beers were non-alcoholic? One of my long-time BBS
    callers went into rehab years ago and has stayed sober. He'd continue to
    hang out with friends, but brought a six-pack of ginger beer with him
    whenever he went out.

    He disappeared from the BBSes for the month he was in rehab, and came
    back with a post entitled "Things I learned when I stopped drinking..."

    The only one I remember was "I didn't realize until I stopped drinking
    that I don't know how to dance..."



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