Re: Re: hello! :DD
By: AKAcastor to Mary4 on Tue Apr 16 2024 11:05 am

Honestly I feel like the Pocket 386 might be a bit awkward of a system.
It's a 386 SX so entry-level as far as 32-bit systems, but 40 MHz so maybe not TOO sluggish? Just sort of an odd duck.

As I recall, 40MHz was a (the most?) popular/common clock speed for the AMD variant of the 386 SX CPUs/boards. With it's 16-bit data bus, it was a bit of a crippled processor, but not an odd duck for the time.

I wouldn't want to use one today! :-)
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #87:
UART = Universal Asynchronous Receiver/Transmitter
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Re: hello! :DD
By: Skylar to Ben Collver on Tue Apr 16 2024 04:01 pm

I started programming in BASIC in 1982. My first paid work was in 1990,

Ditto. Same years, same tools too (started with Commodore BASIC, then Turbo C -> Borland C++, etc.).
--
digital man (rob)

This Is Spinal Tap quote #38:
Artie Fufkin: I'm not asking, I'm telling with this. Kick my ass.
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Re: hello! :DD
By: Ed Vance to AKAcastor on Tue Apr 16 2024 06:39 pm

LIST.com written by (IIRC) Vernon Berg.
Fell in love with it and have a BAT file on XP box called L.bat since I use it regularly.
Alt-h is the On/Off toggle that You found.

Yup, big list.com here here too. I used SemWare's QEdit (q.exe) for editing plain-text files in those days.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_SemWare_Editor
--
digital man (rob)

Steven Wright quote #19:
I intend to live forever ... So far, so good.
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mary4 wrote to niter3 <=-

not a version of minix for the 286
there is a good os in deep development called ELKS
it works on XTs and 286s

MINIX2 runs on XT and 286 - https://minix1.woodhull.com

I've done it!



... Always the first steps
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Ben Collver wrote to Skylar <=-

I used list.com hex dumps to reverse engineer the database format, &
the shareware Desmet-C PCC compiler to write a program to export the
data to plain text, which i imported into Paradox. I remember using Borland grep.exe and i also remember using list.com multi-file views
to flip back and forth between old/new code listings page by page to
spot differences. I didn't have a diff command at that time.

I remember collecting all sorts of *nix utilities for DOS, trying to
make my DOS machine look unix-ey, I don't recall how compatible they
were, but do recall using *nix find, cut, and grep.




... Always the first steps
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
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AKAcastor wrote to Blue White <=-

Got stuck on with the Tandy a long time, then finally got a 486DLC-40
with 4 megs of RAM - what a machine! :)

That was a wild time - 1993 to 1995 or so. 486es came out, then EISA
versus VLB versus SCSI wars, then wars over clock-doubling - was a
486DX50 a better choice than a 486DX2/66?

Then came the clones - AMD, Cyrix, IBM, and others I've forgotten about
all came up with their down 486-esque designs. We had problems with
Windows 3.1 and the Cyrix chips, so the users would trade them for
Intel 486 boxes and we'd run BSD/OS in the server room on them just
fine.

Then, the first Pentium/66s showed up and blew them all away. The 486
era was gone, just like >that<.



... Most deaths on Mount Everest are caused by goats.
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AKAcastor wrote to Mary4 <=-

Telix was the first priority when I got the Book8088, downloading at 115.2kbps didn't go so well but with a more reasonable baud rate it's.. not bad!

https://imgur.com/a/JKq6XAy

Using one of the little wifi RS232 modems, it really is slick to be
able to call into BBSes from an XT on wifi while I recline in the
living room. :)

DOSBOX-X allows you to redirect a TCP/IP port to a serial port. Redirect
port 23 to COM1, fire up telix, enter the hostname as the phone number,
and it "dials" out.

Just like the old days, except... no busy signals! :)



... Superman's only weakness is graphite.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
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Ben Collver wrote to AKAcastor <=-

When i developed code on DOS in the mid 90's, I used Q.EXE now known as the Semware editor, i think.

Qedit was my goto editor throughout the DOS days up until Windows 2000.
W2K had an OS/2 subsystem and could run OS/2 console apps. Qedit for
OS/2 dealt with long file names (if memory serves) and ran better than
the DOS version in Windows.

The Semware editor released a free version a while ago, I'm using it
now. It's a nice progression from Qedit.

After tolerating vi all these years, I'm trying to use it more. I have
a blog on my tilde that I'm writing with vim, trying to recover muscle
memory long gone from writing code under xenix. I'll still find myself
hitting "ctrl-K X" to exit instead of ":wq". :)




... YORGAMAK HAS ARRIVED AND WILL INITIATE DESTRUCTIMATION.
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niter3 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

I put MINIX on it, installed an SMTP server, POP3 server and a web
server and create a mini-presence on our company LAN. I forwarded mail
to it, used it as a DNS forwarder, and created some web pages to share information inside the company.

I'm not up to speed with minix, but is that a currently active OS? Meaning, is it getting constant patches?

MINIX is a "teaching" OS, not really meant for production. Andy
Tanenbaum designed it for an OS class years ago. I wouldn't want to run
it on the internet, though.

It runs on an old emulator called bochs, but also runs natively and
with modern hypervisors. It ran (sort of) on 8088s, but was intended for
a 286 with a little more memory to play with, and later versions
supported 386's memory model and included an X server.

What's great about it is that the source code is available and it's
designed to be walked through and understood as part of the class.

https://minix3.org for Version 3 info
https://minix1.woodhull.com for Version 2 info



... Always the first steps
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On 17 Apr 2024 at 07:16a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

niter3 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

I put MINIX on it, installed an SMTP server, POP3 server and a web server and create a mini-presence on our company LAN. I forwarded mai to it, used it as a DNS forwarder, and created some web pages to shar information inside the company.

I'm not up to speed with minix, but is that a currently active OS? Meaning, is it getting constant patches?

MINIX is a "teaching" OS, not really meant for production. Andy
Tanenbaum designed it for an OS class years ago. I wouldn't want to run
it on the internet, though.

It runs on an old emulator called bochs, but also runs natively and
with modern hypervisors. It ran (sort of) on 8088s, but was intended for
a 286 with a little more memory to play with, and later versions
supported 386's memory model and included an X server.

What's great about it is that the source code is available and it's designed to be walked through and understood as part of the class.

You're mixing versions a bit here.

Minix 1 was certainly a teaching OS, and ran on the 8088
(it was designed to run from a floppy on a student's PC).

Minix 1.5 and Minix 2 were ported more widely. The former
ran on a bunch of obscure machines that are just memories
now, but 2 ran on x86 and SPARC.

Minix 3 runs on x86 and ARM, and as mentioned, is the embedded
OS for the Intel management engine, which is in pretty much
every x86 processor post 2015. Minix 3 is very much a
production system, as well as serving its original teaching
goal. At various times, it's been used in a variety of
research projects.

I kind of doubt Andy will do another version, but perhaps
someone else will take it up.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Hello mary4!

hihi! <3

A belated welcome to you, Victoria, and I'm sure you'll enjoy yourself here in fsxNet -- there are lots of very friendly people here!

<3 <3 <3 <3 thankyou! :3

Speaking of 286s, I used to have an IBM AT with an original EGA monitor
(I remember this took up quite some space on the desk!). The power
switch had to be replaced in due time as it wore down... =)

HOLY SHIT SO COOL!!!!

That chassis was later on used to fit a 386SX/40 (boy, was that MB tiny compared to the chassis!) and later on a 486DX4/100, before I switched to Pentium and AMD K6-2 in a mini tower.

i love the 286 systems! make it a 286 again!

Best regards
Zip (Björn)

<3

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... No honey, I can't eat with the family. My computer gets lonely!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

As I recall, 40MHz was a (the most?) popular/common clock speed for the AMD variant of the 386 SX CPUs/boards. With it's 16-bit data bus, it was
a bit of a crippled processor, but not an odd duck for the time.

i want 16 bit power!!!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't want to use one today! :-)

i am using a 286 right now!

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... A social life? Where can I download that!?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

MINIX2 runs on XT and 286 - https://minix1.woodhull.com

oh yeah i ment to say not a recent and maintained version of minix ^^;;

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... A SQL query walks into a bar and sees two tables. Asks: 'Can I join you?'

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

I remember collecting all sorts of *nix utilities for DOS, trying to
make my DOS machine look unix-ey, I don't recall how compatible they
were, but do recall using *nix find, cut, and grep.

there is a bunch of them in freedos!

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... A book in the hand is worth two on the shelf!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

That was a wild time - 1993 to 1995 or so. 486es came out, then EISA
versus VLB versus SCSI wars, then wars over clock-doubling - was a
486DX50 a better choice than a 486DX2/66?

i have a 286 dx1 @ 33mHz xD

Then came the clones - AMD, Cyrix, IBM, and

others I've forgotten about

all came up with their down 486-esque designs. We had problems with
Windows 3.1 and the Cyrix chips, so the users would trade them for
Intel 486 boxes and we'd run BSD/OS in the server room on them just
fine.

nice!!

Then, the first Pentium/66s showed up and blew them all away.

the 486

era was gone, just like >that<.

fug

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... A social life? Where can I download that!?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

DOSBOX-X allows you to redirect a TCP/IP port to a serial port. Redirect port 23 to COM1, fire up telix, enter the hostname as the phone number, and it "dials" out.

i prefer real hardware! xD

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... This virus requires Microsoft Windows 3.x

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

Qedit was my goto editor throughout the DOS days up until Windows 2000.
W2K had an OS/2 subsystem and could run OS/2 console apps. Qedit for
OS/2 dealt with long file names (if memory serves) and ran better than
the DOS version in Windows.

qedit works on 16 bit dos?0

The Semware editor released a free version a while ago, I'm using it
now. It's a nice progression from Qedit.

?

After tolerating vi all these years, I'm trying to use it more. I have
a blog on my tilde that I'm writing with vim, trying to recover muscle
memory long gone from writing code under xenix. I'll still find myself
hitting "ctrl-K X" to exit instead of ":wq". :)

wwww vim 7 on 286

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

Before Logging on again, I turned the XP box on to see
the L.bat file that I
put in a sub-directory actually is: list/w .

Oh yeah, "list /w ." is a great way to view a directory and inspect files, I tried it out here and it has a real "power user" feeling (in a good way).

At a cmd prompt I typed set and the sub-directory is located in the path= statement.
I looked, but I can't find where or when or how XP put
my location for l.bat in
the path. PC=1. Ed=0. again.

You might find that in the 'System Properties' window (If you right click on 'My Computer' and select 'Properties' it will open). In the 'Advanced' tab there is an 'Environment Variables' button.

At a cmd prompt I use EDIT.EXE , occasionally.
I use WordPad for most of what I write.

I don't mind EDIT.EXE, I also use it sometimes - a lot better than using EDLIN! I never did really learn how to use EDLIN but I think I stumbled through a couple edits with it over the years.

Often I go to a Admin cmd prompt and make.txt files of
all files on the HDD.
AT C:\ I type dir /s/-p >> 'place to put the text file' .
And a second time I add /b ahead of the /s/-p portion of the command.

I find the /b switch useful too, a nice way to make a quick list of files in a directory (or subdirectories).

Ages ago I read an article saying .rtf files can contain problem code, but since I am writing text I don't think any .rtf file I ever shared with others would harm their system.

I think RTF (and other rich documents) are only a danger if you are opening files that were created by someone malicious. I don't think I've ever heard of any accidental problems.

40 years ago when I bought the Commodore C=64 , 1541 and VIC Modem 300 EV> I also purchased a pack of two 5 1/4" floppy disks for $2.00 USD.

This still sounds like an exciting purchase! Did you buy them all the same day? Big box of Commodore goodies.

I read in the 1541 manual the Command new was used to format a disk.
I tried over and over typing new the disk name Comma two letters.
Never could make the floppy drive format one of the disks.

The 1541 drive had a Utilities Disk and I saw a PRG (Program) with the EV> title of "Test Disk", so I ran it, was asked to insert a blank disk in EV> the slot and press Return.
When the test finished I learned the blank disk had been formatted.

This spirit of experimentation is familiar to me, I can't count how many times over the years I didn't know what I was doing and just TRIED THINGS and stumbled onto a solution for a problem. Sometimes the solution is only a side-effect of whatever action I took, but if it works then it works and I consider it a success!

Much later in reading, I learned the Command on PAGE 1 of the book called 'open' was suppose to be typed first, then some numbers and then I could EV> type 'new' on the command line and my 1541 would format a disk for me.

You gotta know the secret incantations! :) And they HID them on page 1! When we just got new hardware there's too much excitement in the air to just sit down and read carefully. I bet we've all missed the instructions that were right in front of us at least once (I like it so much I do it often).

No one needs to make up stories about Me, telling it as
You saw me do it is bad enuf.

Your telling of the stories is always wonderful, Ed, and I really appreciate you sharing these stories. I always smile when I see a message from you.

Late one night I accidentally touched the mouse button as I had Windows Explorer open and saw a sub-directory disappear.
It was bed time so I shut the PC off.
The next morning at a cmd prompt I typed dir *. /s
to look for the missing folder.

Hey there's another old DOS trick! Using DIR *. to list directories, in versions of DOS before the /ad switch was supported. I remember reading about this trick in a magazine in the early 90s - maybe DOS Resource Guide.

It usually works great because we rarely use extensions on directory names, and almost always use extensions on filenames. I like the trick because "list everything without an extension" isn't exactly the same as "list all directories", but it still works most of the time.

I found that I had dragged the sub-directory down to the next one shown in Windows Explorer, so I moved it back where it originally had been.

At least you realized you had done it! More than once I've looked through a directory I hadn't been in for a while, and found another directory tucked away inside that was dropped there accidentally at some time in the past and gotten lost. Oops!

THEN I told on myself in the FIDO Windows echo.
The next day a reply message mentioned all I needed to do after the sub-directory disappeared was to press CTRL z (which I knew was Undo).
DUH

Maybe doing things "the hard way" sometimes builds character, you do seem to have plenty of that! :)


Chris/akacastor


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

I use less so much that my muscle memory types 'b' to go back a page.
In list.com it goes back to the beginning.
So i remapped 'b' to go back a page.

Ben, you keep showing me obvious things that I didn't realize I should be doing, like configuring list and less to have the same behaviour.

I keep catching myself typing 'list' in Linux shells and had thought about creating an alias to 'less', but my slow brain hadn't gotten as far as making them have similar hotkeys. Brilliant!


Chris/akacastor


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

I've been working on porting OpenBSD ed(1) to DOS. The DJGPP port was a breeze, but the 16-bit port has been a fun challenge and i am not finished yet. :-)

When i developed code on DOS in the mid 90's, I used Q.EXE now known as the Semware editor, i think.

These days i tend to use calvin in DOS. It's a lean vi clone that may be too minimal for most folks. XVI is another nice one and i think it has a nice balance between features and minimalism. IIRC, xvi is descended
from stevie. Someone told me elvis 1.8 on simtelnet is decent, and it is real-mode.

I recently tried svared and i think they did a fine job
making that editor.

Thanks for the great list of suggestions - the only one I've used is QEdit, I have used vi (but never really learned it - I can insert/edit text and exit the editor) but that's it. So maybe its time to try something new here.

I've been using an old version of QEdit (3.00 from 1994) but I haven't even memorized the hotkeys, I just go through the menus, so I'm not especially efficient when using it.


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

The only problem was that they scheduled our class in
the same room and time as the CS2 class. So, guess where
the teacher spent her time? She would give us projects
to work on, but we were seniors and not all that
motivated to complete them.

Anyway, for one of her "projects," she handed us Peter
Norton's book and told us to read it. That one I
completed and thoroughly enjoyed.

I haven't actually read the book myself, I just know of it by its massive reputation. Reading that must have been a great foundation to keep developing on. Good idea from teacher!


Chris/akacastor


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Re: Re: hello! :DD
By: Blue White to mary4 on Wed Apr 17 2024 08:06 am

I started with an 8088 XT (well, actually a TI 99/4A

I still have the XT and the TI, as well as the 386 and P-120. I think I
am covered in the vintage department. ;)

BW, I never had a TI 99/4A. One of my friends did. Between my friends and myself, we were able to try most 8-bit home computers. But none of us had a "PC".

I do have a working Timex Sinclair 1000... somewhere around here...
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Re: Re: Minix
By: tenser to Skylar on Thu Apr 18 2024 01:56 am

Probably meant more for someone who would get their hands in the code and fix it themself.

Tell that to Intel. :-D

I suspect folks at Intel already know they can fix it. They don't need me to tell them. :D
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
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I think a 486DX2-66 or similar would open more options up for DOS
gaming and probably more 32-bit DOS software in general. So I'm still

IIRC, if it is an SX it is not completely 32-bit. I think that meant 32 bit processor on a 16 bit bus. I suspect you are correct re: a 486 or even a proper 386DX.

That's my understanding as well.

I think the limiting factor in bringing these machines to market is the supply of components available, so if we're lucky maybe the developer will find a crate of 486DX2 chips and related chipset somewhere. And/or an open source design they can clone. (like the Book8088 BIOS)


Chris/akacastor


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Re: Re: hello! :DD
By: Digital Man to AKAcastor on Wed Apr 17 2024 11:37 am

I was not a fan of 386 SX systems. My first "development machine" was a 286. After a couple of years, it was replaced with a 386 SX. I do not recall the rated speed of either machine. I remember the 386 SX had a slightly faster clock.

But I'd swear at that machine at least once a day. I would have been thrilled to get the 286 back!
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As I recall, 40MHz was a (the most?) popular/common
clock speed for the AMD variant of the 386 SX
CPUs/boards. With it's 16-bit data bus, it was a bit of
a crippled processor, but not an odd duck for the time.

Interesting! I remember 386SX-16 and 386SX-33 but somehow I blocked 386SX-40 out of my memory. I do remember 386DX-40, not sure why I thought the 40 MHz 386 was the DX version only. I guess I was just lucky enough to not have dealt with many of the 386SX-40 machines (which makes sense, I was pretty young and didn't have access to a huge variety of hardware).

I wouldn't want to use one today! :-)

I'll see how this Pocket 386 feels compared to my Macbook Pro. Maybe it'll be an upgrade. ;)


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Re: hello! :DD
By: Digital Man to Skylar on Wed Apr 17 2024 11:39 am

Ditto. Same years, same tools too (started with Commodore BASIC, then Turbo C -> Borland C++, etc.).

Nice. I "learned" several variants of BASIC. My friends (or my parents friends) had other computers, like TRS Model II (I think?), TRS-80 CoCo, and a TI-99/4A. There may have been others...

I took the college PL/I class the summer between freshman and sophmore high school.

My sophmore year of high school, I took a "business computing" class that covered word processing, spreadsheets, and databases. I quite enjoyed writing small db projects in dBase II. :D

Our school also had a System 32, donated by our town's utility company after their upgrade. The only thing the school could think to do was offer a RPG/II class, which I took the same year. Although I don't think of RPG/II as a language, but alas...

I discovered Pascal and C on the college VAX. But it was 1989 before I discovered Turbo Pascal and 1990 for Turbo C.
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Re: Re: list.com
By: mary4 to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Apr 18 2024 09:26 am

qedit works on 16 bit dos?0

Yes, they did make a QEdit for DOS. Back when I got my first PC in 1992, it was running DOS, and I used QEdit.

Nightfox

Re: list.com
By: AKAcastor to Ed Vance on Wed Apr 17 2024 05:40 pm

Never could make the floppy drive format one of the disks.
When the test finished I learned the blank disk had been formatted.

This spirit of experimentation is familiar to me, I can't count how many times over the years I didn't know what I was doing and just TRIED THINGS and stumbled onto a solution for a problem.

Wow, this brings back memories.

My first experience was using a Commodore PET in my school's library to play "educational games". The games were loaded from a casette (or dataset in Commodore speak). But I wanted to learn how to create those games...

I was able to find a book on BASIC and started bringing a cassette tape with me to school. I have no idea how many days I was confused and disappointed because the code that I wrote the day before would not load from the tape.

I know it took several days for me to figure out that the SAVE command (and record button) was needed *once I was ready to save*. I was typing SAVE, pressing the record button, and then type type type... expecting my program to be written to the tape as I typed it! :D :D :D

Oh, the things we laugh at now.
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Re: Re: hello! :DD
By: AKAcastor to Blue White on Wed Apr 17 2024 06:36 pm

IIRC, if it is an SX it is not completely 32-bit. I think that meant 32
bit processor on a 16 bit bus. I suspect you are correct re: a 486 or
even a proper 386DX.

That's my understanding as well.

Yes, I remember that being the case as well.

Nightfox

Re: Re: hello! :DD
By: AKAcastor to Digital Man on Wed Apr 17 2024 06:46 pm

Interesting! I remember 386SX-16 and 386SX-33 but somehow I blocked 386SX-40 out of my memory. I do remember 386DX-40, not sure why I thought the 40 MHz 386 was the DX version only. I guess I was just lucky enough

I only had two 386 setups in the 90s: One was an Intel 386SX-16 and the other was an AMD 386DX-40. My next PC was an AMD am5x86-133 (which was really a 486), and after a little while, I learned it could be safely overclocked to 160mhz by increasing the bus speed from 33mhz to 40mhz.

Nightfox

But I'd swear at that machine at least once a day. I would have been thrilled to get the 286 back!

286 is great isnt it? <3

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... Error, no Keyboard - Press F1 to Continue.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

Yes, they did make a QEdit for DOS. Back when I got my first PC in
1992, it was running DOS, and I used QEdit.

ohh!! i need to see

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... 640K ought to be enough for anybody. -Bill Gates, 1981.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

thats a cool story! <3

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

Then came the clones - AMD, Cyrix, IBM, and others I've forgotten about
all came up with their down 486-esque designs. We had problems with
Windows 3.1 and the Cyrix chips, so the users would trade them for
Intel 486 boxes and we'd run BSD/OS in the server room on them just
fine.

I had a Cyrix 486DLC-40 and it was always great. I remember reading mixed reviews of some of the others and it always seemed so unusual to me because my 486DLC-40 had been great.

I remember hearing the IBM 486 SLC stood for "SLow Crap".

Then, the first Pentium/66s showed up and blew them all away. The 486
era was gone, just like >that<.

Yep, time to upgrade! If you can't afford anything else, then at least a Pentium Overdrive chip. :)


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

My first experience was using a Commodore PET in my
school's library to play "educational games". The games
were loaded from a casette (or dataset in Commodore
speak). But I wanted to learn how to create those games...

I can relate to this too - using a computer and almost immediately thinking "I want to create these programs. How do I create these programs? I'm going to do this."

I know it took several days for me to figure out that
the SAVE command (and record button) was needed *once I
was ready to save*. I was typing SAVE, pressing the
record button, and then type type type... expecting my
program to be written to the tape as I typed it! :D :D :D

If you type faster you can fit a longer program on the tape!!

I love how it is simultaneously silly but also logical. Great story.


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

I only had two 386 setups in the 90s: One was an Intel
386SX-16 and the other was an AMD 386DX-40. My next PC
was an AMD am5x86-133 (which was really a 486), and
after a little while, I learned it could be safely
overclocked to 160mhz by increasing the bus speed from
33mhz to 40mhz.

I never had a 5x86, but a little after that I had a Celeron 300 and that was an insanely overclockable chip. I don't remember the numbers for sure, but I think I had it at 450 MHz. Was it stable? Well, I was running Windows 98 - nothing was REALLY stable. :)


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

I only had two 386 setups in the 90s: One was an Intel 386SX-16 and the other was an AMD 386DX-40. My next PC was an AMD am5x86-133 (which was really a 486), and after a little while, I learned it could be safely overclocked to 160mhz by increasing the bus speed from 33mhz to 40mhz.

i over clocked my 486DX5@133mHz to 166mHz too :D

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... There are two types of people; those who finish what they start and

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

Yep, time to upgrade! If you can't afford anything else, then at least a Pentium Overdrive chip. :)

pentiums are hella modern to me xD
thats why i advoid them

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... I don't have the time for a hobby. I have a computer.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

I never had a 5x86, but a little after that I had a Celeron 300 and that was an insanely overclockable chip. I don't remember the numbers for sure, but I think I had it at 450 MHz. Was it stable? Well, I was running Windows 98 - nothing was REALLY stable. :)

lol

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... BREAKFAST.COM Halted... Cereal port not responding.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

My project was to write a game called "Battle Checkers"
inspired by two other games: Scorched Earth and Battle Chess.

I loved Battle Chess and Scorched Earth both. I recently came across a retro DOS game archiving project called "eXoDos" and it had both of those in it. I loaded up Scorched Earth and actually got my kids to play a game with me. I was a lot of fun.

We played quite a bit of Scorched Earth duing CS3.

These systems were running DOS 3 and had Hercules Graphics.
I was using Borland Turbo Basic, which did not have built-in
support for Hercules. My teacher gave me a book with the PC
memory map and i disassembled programs to figure out how to
drive it. Then i wrote graphics routines in ASM that i
called from BASIC. I also wrote a keyboard-based pixel art

That's seriously impressive and far beyond what I was able to accomplish, but then I've always been more interested in building the hardware than coding.

Unfortunately, though i was proud of this, i had backed it up
on floppies, and those floppies were destroyed while in
storage. I no longer have any of that code.

That's a shame. Last year I came across my name on a wiki of OS/2 software. I completely forgot that I wrote a little random tagline generator and the program and the file of taglines were still available on an OS/2 archive site. I was able to download it and put it in my archive.

It's true that anything you put on the Internet is forever.


-- Lachlan

... THE fIRST sTEP iS tO tAKE oFF tHE cAPS lOCK

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (21:1/158)

Re: list.com
By: AKAcastor to Skylar on Wed Apr 17 2024 08:09 pm

If you type faster you can fit a longer program on the tape!!

Ha! That never occurred to me. :)
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

On 17 Apr 2024 at 06:40p, Skylar pondered and said...

I suspect folks at Intel already know they can fix it. They don't need
me to tell them. :D

The joke was that there have been several very high-profile
bugs in the ME; not due to Minix per se, but rather due to
code that Intel wrote.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

BW, I never had a TI 99/4A. One of my friends did. Between my friends
and
myself, we were able to try most 8-bit home computers. But none of us
had a "PC".

Yeah, I had the TI. Other friends had the C64 so I got to try both. I
never got to try any of the more obscure ones, though.



--- Talisman v0.53-dev (Linux/armv7l)
* Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * telnet:24/ssh:2122/ftelnet:80 (21:4/134)

Interesting! I remember 386SX-16 and 386SX-33 but somehow I blocked 386SX-40 out of my memory. I do remember 386DX-40, not sure why I
thought the 40 MHz 386 was the DX version only. I guess I was just
lucky enough to not have dealt with many of the 386SX-40 machines
(which makes sense, I was pretty young and didn't have access to a
huge variety of hardware).

I don't remember the SX-40, either. I do remember the DX-40 as I had
one. That said, I didn't really pay much attention to what the machines
were I was using (in college) before the DX era so there could have
certainly been plenty that I didn't know about then.


--- Talisman v0.53-dev (Linux/armv7l)
* Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * telnet:24/ssh:2122/ftelnet:80 (21:4/134)

My project was to write a game called "Battle Checkers"
inspired by two other games: Scorched Earth and Battle Chess.

I loved Battle Chess and Scorched Earth both. I recently came across a retro DOS game archiving project called "eXoDos" and it had both of
those in it. I loaded up Scorched Earth and actually got my kids to play
a game with me. I was a lot of fun.

We played quite a bit of Scorched Earth duing CS3.

i should get this game and battle chess

These systems were running DOS 3 and had Hercules Graphics.
I was using Borland Turbo Basic, which did not have built-in
support for Hercules. My teacher gave me a book with the PC
memory map and i disassembled programs to figure out how to
drive it. Then i wrote graphics routines in ASM that i
called from BASIC. I also wrote a keyboard-based pixel art

That's seriously impressive and far beyond what I was able to
accomplish, but then I've always been more interested in building the hardware than coding.

i can code too! i just dont have the time right now

Unfortunately, though i was proud of this, i had backed it up
on floppies, and those floppies were destroyed while in
storage. I no longer have any of that code.

That's a shame. Last year I came across my name on a wiki of OS/2 software. I completely forgot that I wrote a little random tagline generator and the program and the file of taglines were still available
on an OS/2 archive site. I was able to download it and put it in my archive.

f
i use climate controlled storage floppy are sensitive to heat

It's true that anything you put on the Internet is forever.

true

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... I don't have the time for a hobby. I have a computer.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

Blue White wrote to AKAcastor <=-

IIRC, if it is an SX it is not completely 32-bit. I think that meant
32 bit processor on a 16 bit bus. I suspect you are correct re: a 486
or even a proper 386DX.

I don't know if this is the case with the new DOS handheld, but Intel
made a super low power 386sx for mobile back then - of course power
consumption of any chip pales in comparison to modern systems.

Interesting note I read while wiki-ing this - Windows 95 and Windows NT
3.51 supported the 386 line of processors. 98 and NT 4 required a 486.



... Don't bite the hand that feeds you WiFi.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Blue White wrote to Ed Vance <=-

LIST.com written by (IIRC) Vernon Berg.

Yep, that is the one. I still use it often in my DOSemu sessions.

Yep, list and Xtree were my UI back in the DOS days.




... A NEW LIFE AWAITS YOU IN THE OFF-WORLD COLONIES!
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: Re: hello! :DD
By: mary4 to Nightfox on Thu Apr 18 2024 05:57 pm

I only had two 386 setups in the 90s: One was an Intel 386SX-16 and the
other was an AMD 386DX-40. My next PC was an AMD am5x86-133 (which was
really a 486), and after a little while, I learned it could be safely
overclocked to 160mhz by increasing the bus speed from 33mhz to 40mhz.

i over clocked my 486DX5@133mHz to 166mHz too :D

It was actually a DX4 (I hadn't heard of a DX5), and it was overclocked to 160, not 166.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Minix
By: tenser to Skylar on Fri Apr 19 2024 12:30 am

The joke was that there have been several very high-profile bugs in the ME; not due to Minix per se, but rather due to code that Intel wrote.

I worked at Intel for a little over 8 years. I was in a team working on security software, and one component of the first project I worked on with them used the Intel ME. It was interesting to learn about that stuff.. Later, the team worked on some software using Intel's SGX (Software Guard Extensions), which I heard also had some security flaws and was later discontinued.

Nightfox

Re: hello! :DD
By: AKAcastor to Ben Collver on Wed Apr 17 2024 06:20 pm

Ben, you keep showing me obvious things that I didn't realize I should
be doing, like configuring list and less to have the same behaviour.

:-) Thanks for writing so.

I was stuck home sick one time, and kept getting annoyed by the 'b'
thing in list.com, so i had a go at it.

Seek and destroy all annoyances ;)
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: The Fool's Quarter, fqbbs.synchro.net (21:1/149)

I don't know if this is the case with the new DOS handheld, but Intel
made a super low power 386sx for mobile back then - of course power consumption of any chip pales in comparison to modern systems.

I don't know to what extent its designed for low power (if that was the main goal, or just a side effect), but the ALi M6117 386SX does claim to be low power. ("The internal structure of this core is 32-bit data and address bus with very low supply current, 116 mA in the conditions of 5.0V, 20MHz, room temperature.")

The M6117D is a highly integrated, low voltage, single-chip mplementation of Intel 386SX compatible microprocessor plus ALi M1217B chipset.

specs from: https://theretroweb.com/chip/documentation/m6117d-6454b7cbef102095220558.pdf

I haven't gone through a full battery charge in the Pocket 386 yet so I can't speak to its battery life.

Interesting note I read while wiki-ing this - Windows 95 and Windows NT 3.51 supported the 386 line of processors. 98 and NT 4 required a 486.

That is interesting - I had no idea that Windows 98 or NT 4 required a 486+. Although I guess I wouldn't have wanted to try them on a 386 back in the day anyway - painful enough on the 486.


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

On 18 Apr 2024 at 09:51a, Nightfox pondered and said...

Re: Re: Minix
By: tenser to Skylar on Fri Apr 19 2024 12:30 am

The joke was that there have been several very high-profile bugs in t ME; not due to Minix per se, but rather due to code that Intel wrote.

I worked at Intel for a little over 8 years. I was in a team working on security software, and one component of the first project I worked on
with them used the Intel ME. It was interesting to learn about that stuff.. Later, the team worked on some software using Intel's SGX (Software Guard Extensions), which I heard also had some security flaws and was later discontinued.

The bug I was thinking of was rather pedestrian, and was in
the built-in web server. It validated a user-supplied password
against one that was stored somewhere (presumably flash or some
kind of NVRAM). The code was basically,

if (strncmp(pass, userpass, strlen(userpass)) == 0) {
return SUCCESS;
} else {
return FAILURE;
}

The bug, of course, is constraining to the length of the user
supplied password; the effect was that entering _no_ password
automatically authenticated the password (empty strings always
compare equal). The fix is to read the user password into a
pre-zeroed buffer the same size as `pass` and then compare.

The issue with SGX was that it was easy to break out of the
enclave. Whoops.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Re: Re: Minix
By: Nightfox to tenser on Thu Apr 18 2024 09:51 am

Re: Re: Minix
By: tenser to Skylar on Fri Apr 19 2024 12:30 am

The joke was that there have been several very high-profile bugs in the ME; not due to Minix per se, but rather due to code that Intel wrote.

I worked at Intel for a little over 8 years. I was in a team working on security software, and one component of the first project I worked on with them used the Intel ME. It was interesting to learn about that stuff.. Later, the team worked on some software using Intel's SGX (Software Guard Extensions), which I heard also had some security flaws and was later discontinued.

I worked at Broadcom for 16 years and a large part of that time was in charge of the TruManage (Deuce is actually the one that came up with that name) project that competed with Intel AMT/vPro for embedded system management solutions (i.e. ASF, DASH, SMASH, IPMI/DCMI, etc.) for client systems and low-end servers. Intel was our biggest competitor and they were able to use system main memory and hide their die-cost in the rest of the chipset, so we were at a disadvantage on Intel platforms, but had virtually all the AMD platform marketshare for a long time. Intel also played dirty in the standards body (DMTF), using their position of power over their customers to win votes and vote-down enhancements to management standards they had abandoned. The Broadcom system management controller (AKA "BMC") was integrated into our network controllers (BCM57xxx) and was a very fun embedded supervisory system with a lot of power and control over the entire system.
--
digital man (rob)

This Is Spinal Tap quote #18:
Sustain, listen to it. Don't hear anything. You would though were it playing. Norco, CA WX: 75.1°F, 31.0% humidity, 1 mph SSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

Re: Re: Minix
By: tenser to Nightfox on Fri Apr 19 2024 08:19 am

The bug I was thinking of was rather pedestrian, and was in the built-in web server. It validated a user-supplied password against one that was stored somewhere (presumably flash or some kind of NVRAM). The code was basically,

if (strncmp(pass, userpass, strlen(userpass)) == 0) {
return SUCCESS;
} else {
return FAILURE;
}

The bug, of course, is constraining to the length of the user supplied password; the effect was that entering _no_ password automatically authenticated the password (empty strings always compare equal). The fix is to read the user password into a pre-zeroed buffer the same size as `pass` and then compare.

Whoops.. Honestly that might be a bug I might miss on first glance. Gotta be careful about that kind of thing sometimes and always be thinking of how the various library functions work and what could go wrong.

The issue with SGX was that it was easy to break out of the enclave. Whoops.

Doh!

On a side note, I know sales of movies & TV shows on blu-rays & such have dropped, and a lot of people aren't playing them on computers these days, but I always thought it was interesting how it was still possible to play blu-ray discs on a PC with certain restrictions - You had to use certain software and have your PC set up correctly with all the drivers working, etc. to enable the copy protection in software when playing optical discs. I was reading into what the requirements were to play 4K blu-ray discs on a PC, and I thought it was a bit crazy - Among other things, you had to be using an Intel PC because the software used SGX, and also using Intel's internal video in order for the copy protection to be fully enabled and allow playback from disc to work. The requirement for Intel internal video meant that if you're using a dedicated video card (Nvidia or AMD), then your PC wouldn't be able to play 4K blu-ray discs. AMD PCs were out of the question. Now that Intel's SGX is discontinued, 4K blu-ray disc playback on a PC just no longer works. Of course, you can still rip the discs on any PC using disc ripping software, and then play the ripped video files.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Minix
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Thu Apr 18 2024 01:20 pm

I worked at Broadcom for 16 years and a large part of that time was in charge of the TruManage (Deuce is actually the one that came up with that name) project that competed with Intel AMT/vPro for embedded system management solutions (i.e. ASF, DASH, SMASH, IPMI/DCMI, etc.) for client systems and low-end servers. Intel was our biggest competitor and they were able to use system main memory and hide their die-cost in the rest of the chipset, so we were at a disadvantage on Intel platforms, but had virtually all the AMD platform marketshare for a long time. Intel also played dirty in the standards body (DMTF), using their position of power over their customers to win votes and vote-down enhancements to management standards they had abandoned. The Broadcom system management controller (AKA "BMC") was integrated into our network controllers (BCM57xxx) and was a very fun embedded supervisory system with a lot of power and control over the entire system.

That's cool about Deuce coming up with that name. And I'm not really surprised about Intel trying to use their position to play dirty with the standards body.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Minix
By: tenser to Skylar on Fri Apr 19 2024 12:30 am

The joke was that there have been several very high-profile
bugs in the ME; not due to Minix per se, but rather due to
code that Intel wrote.

Ah... all news to me. I didn't even know Intel used Minix. ;)
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

Re: Re: hello! :DD
By: Blue White to Skylar on Thu Apr 18 2024 08:02 am

Yeah, I had the TI. Other friends had the C64 so I got to try both. I never got to try any of the more obscure ones, though.

The summer that I turned 10, I bought my first computer with money I earned that summer. I waited for it to go on sale and got my VIC-20 at K-Mart for $79.

But I remember walking past a Coleco Adam and thinking it looked a lot "cooler" than the VIC-20. I didn't have enough money for an Adam though. And I'm thankful that I didn't. ;)

That Christmas, my father bought a Commodore 64 for the "family". Yeah!
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

Re: hello! :DD
By: Ben Collver to Skylar on Tue Apr 16 2024 07:46 pm

Wow, developing multi-media educational apps back in the DOS days.
That was cutting edge...

It was both fun and frustrating. :D We decided to use C++, before the first ANSI standard was finalized. We had to modify our code each time we upgraded the compiler.

I got to know the DOS interupts very well. Ralf Brown's Interrupt List was a frequent reference. I implemented code to play music and digital audio (recorded voice work) using Soundblaster cards. I wrote my first software installer. And when we were ready to beta test, we bought a CDR recorder, which were $1,500 US (for a cheap one) at the time.

Lots of "firsts" for me at that job. ;)
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

I don't have the XP box near me right now
IIRC "send to" is a right click option.
I right click a file in Windows Explorer, select send to, then select List to get a looksee at a file I am interested in knowing whats what about it.

Something else I do is use CTRL u on a Firefox Tab to see the innerds.
Learned that from a BBS user some time ago.

Learned lots of stuff from signing on a BBS. THANKS ALL.

Another thingy I learned is to use the mouse wheel while holding a CTRL key down to change the size of the font on a page.
CTRL +. and CTRL - does that too, but not in as fine increments as the mouse wheel method.

It doesn't work in all kinds of files but does for PDF's and in Firefox.

It makes reading very tiny script easy to read by enlarging what is on the screen.

Ed
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)

I right click a file in Windows Explorer, select send to, then select EV> List to get a looksee at a file I am interested in knowing whats what EV> about it.

That's a nice setup, quick and easy way to take a peek and see what the file looks like. Good use of "Send to" - I've rarely made use of that feature myself.

Another thingy I learned is to use the mouse wheel while holding a CTRL EV> key down to change the size of the font on a page.
CTRL +. and CTRL - does that too, but not in as fine
increments as the mouse wheel method.

I use this ALL THE TIME. It seems like everything opens up either a little too small or waaay to big. Resizing text is maybe the most frequent action I take when using a computer.

It was simpler in DOS - when we wanted the text a different size we bought a bigger monitor! ;)


Chris/akacastor


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

The summer that I turned 10, I bought my first computer with money I earned that summer. I waited for it to go on sale and got my VIC-20 at K-Mart for $79.

But I remember walking past a Coleco Adam and thinking it looked a lot "cooler" than the VIC-20. I didn't have enough money for an Adam though. And I'm thankful that I didn't. ;)

That Christmas, my father bought a Commodore 64 for the "family". Yeah!

i always lkike your stories! :D

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... Help! I can't find the "ANY" key.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

Yeah, I had the TI. Other friends had the C64 so I got to try

both. I

never got to try any of the more obscure ones, though.

The summer that I turned 10, I bought my first computer with money I
earned that summer. I waited for it to go on sale and got my VIC-20 at K-Mart for $79.

That Christmas, my father bought a Commodore 64 for the "family".
Yeah!

That is neat that you had both in the house at the same time. I didn't
really remember the Adam. It is something I learned about later while
reading retro computer articles (and probably on the BBS networks!).



--- Talisman v0.53-dev (Linux/armv7l)
* Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * telnet:24/ssh:2122/ftelnet:80 (21:4/134)

"Bigger Monitor"
OUCH!!!!!!!!

In 1994 when I ordered the 486DX33 built, I asked the Builder to get a 15" MAG Innovation monitor for the system.
The 15" 'er was priced at $535 USD back then in Computer Shopper's Magazine. MAG's 17" 'er was priced at +$700 bucks then.
I had seen 17" Monitors at the Service Merchandise store and drooled at the size of the screen.

The 15" MAG did me just fine though
Years after I got the XP in (IIRC) 2006, Office Depot store nearby priced a HP 19" LCD (I think LCD not LED) Monitor for $200 USD's I replaced the MAG CRT with the HP.
I'm satisfied with that monitor.
It is BIGGER than 17", and cost less than I paid for the MAG 15" .

The 6 point something inch screen on this phone (Motorola g play 2023) looks to me better than the screens on the smaller Cellphones.
I turned Auto Rotate on so the image of the Keyboard looks larger.
The longer span of Keys helps Me not have to tap the <x| Button as often.

It's tolerable, at least I can Communicate with others on this BBS.
Ed
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)

Nightfox wrote to tenser <=-

On a side note, I know sales of movies & TV shows on blu-rays & such
have dropped, and a lot of people aren't playing them on computers
these days, but I always thought it was interesting how it was still possible to play blu-ray discs on a PC with certain restrictions

On a side-side note, my family has a cabin without internet access -
it's up near Lake Tahoe, and we're out in the middle of nowhere.

We've been carting DVDs back and forth, leaving a few up there.

I found an LG Blu-Ray player at my local thrift store for $30.
Interesting. Noted a USB port on the front. I'm listening...

Did some research at the store on my phone and found out it can play
movies from a USB stick. The next time I'm going up there, I'm taking a
half-terabyte of movies and TV shows with me...

If you don't have access to the internet, bring the internet with you.


... Where is the edge?
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

The 15" 'er was priced at $535 USD back then in Computer Shopper's Magazine. MAG's 17" 'er was priced at +$700 bucks then.
I had seen 17" Monitors at the Service Merchandise store and drooled at the size of the screen.

Oh boy monitors used to be expensive didn't they! I don't remember for sure if the monitor on my 486 was 15" or 14", I used it for several years though until around 2000 when I got a 17" LCD and never went back to CRT after that. That first LCD was pretty expensive, but they dropped price relatively quickly as far as this stuff goes.

I currently have a pair of HP 38" widescreen curved monitors on my desk and it's absolutely ridiculous. Sitting at a big desk and the screens stick out past both sides of the desk! One of these screens would be great, but the company I contracted for sent me two screens so I felt the need to set them both up for ultimate overkill. ;)

The 6 point something inch screen on this phone
(Motorola g play 2023) looks to
me better than the screens on the smaller Cellphones.
I turned Auto Rotate on so the image of the Keyboard looks larger.
The longer span of Keys helps Me not have to tap the <x| Button as often.

It's tolerable, at least I can Communicate with others on this BBS.

We've come a long way, now with communication devices in our pocket that link us to BBSes almost anywhere we go! In the early 90s I thought it would be amazing to have a cellular modem and laptop to connect to BBSes from anywhere -I never did get to dial in over a cell connection, but now I have a terminal app on my phone and don't even need the laptop to connect to BBSes. It's kinda great, but also I miss going out and being disconnected. Access to BBSes from anywhere = great, access to internet from anywhere = too much!


Chris/akacastor


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

i still prefer crts!

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... Redundant book title: DOS For Dummies

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

Re: Early 80s Home Computing
By: Blue White to Skylar on Fri Apr 19 2024 08:30 am

That is neat that you had both in the house at the same time.

I didn't actually. My Vic-20 stayed at mom's house. ;-)

5 years later, mom bought me a C128. By then, most of my friends that were as geeky as I was were buying Amigas. (Most of my friends were older than me.)
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

Quoting Poindexter Fortran to Nightfox <=-

Did some research at the store on my phone and found out it can play movies from a USB stick. The next time I'm going up there, I'm taking
a half-terabyte of movies and TV shows with me...

Take a smaller device just in case. Our DVD player with the USB port works great but I have to plug a stick in that's less then 40GB or it won't work.
We use a 32gb stick and it works great.

If you don't have access to the internet, bring the internet with
you.

Yes! ;)

Shawn

... Forgetfulness is a form of freedom.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (21:1/700)

Tiny wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

Quoting Poindexter Fortran to Nightfox <=-

Did some research at the store on my phone and found out it can play movies from a USB stick. The next time I'm going up there, I'm taking
a half-terabyte of movies and TV shows with me...

Take a smaller device just in case. Our DVD player with the USB port works great but I have to plug a stick in that's less then 40GB or it won't work. We use a 32gb stick and it works great.

I plugged in a 512gb USB stick and a 1TB HDD and both worked great!
They need to be exfat or FAT32, no NTFS (so no movies over 4gb each)



... Onward, to meatspace!
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Quoting Poindexter Fortran to Tiny <=-

I plugged in a 512gb USB stick and a 1TB HDD and both worked great!
They need to be exfat or FAT32, no NTFS (so no movies over 4gb each)

Nice! This one works good enough for the woods when we go, and Andrea
still lugs DVD's back and forth for those rainy days or evening when the
bugs are too bothersome to sit outside.

Shawn

... I'm going doooown! Has anyone seen my upper arrow?
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (21:1/700)

processor cores at gigahertz speeds. You have to run some old piece of crap from the 1980's to really impress us! ;-)

It's interesting to think that everything from the last century is now "classic" in antiques terms.

And, yeah, generally the cheapest stuff is stuff that's somewhat outdated. Thus why computers from 2017 are barely functional and questionable if anyone wants them, but computers from the 1980s and 1990s are something collectible.

Though not by me, I think. Even my hand held gaming collection ended up at my brother's place, and I went down that route because, sheesh, you can get a _lot_ of systems and games into small spaces that way.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Haha! You're right, a dozen cores running at gigahertz speeds sounds downright boring these days.

But how else are you going to have maximum particle effects while watching high-end demos?!?!?

...of course, it's really the video card that's the impressive thing, these days, given that they're the majority of cost when building a new high-end system.

On the other hand, I know that most people use these systems for either high-end gaming or cryptocurrency mining, and _that_ sounds boring.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

It's interesting to think that everything from the last century is now "classic" in antiques terms.

fug that means i am classic xD

And, yeah, generally the cheapest stuff is stuff that's somewhat
outdated. Thus why computers from 2017 are barely functional and questionable if anyone wants them, but computers from the 1980s and
1990s are something collectible.

yes! :3

Though not by me, I think. Even my hand held gaming collection ended up
at my brother's place, and I went down that route because, sheesh, you
can get a _lot_ of systems and games into small spaces that way.

yeah

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... It said "insert disk #3", but only two will fit...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

On the other hand, I know that most people use these systems for either high-end gaming or cryptocurrency mining, and _that_ sounds boring.

that IS boring!

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nfluence with large hammer.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

Where I worked, my section first got a 'hand me down' 8088 XT Clone when our boss got a 286.
When the boss got a 386, the 286 came our way.

My section used those PCs to send Morning and Evening reports to another office.
Myself, I thought the 286 seemed slower saving downloads than the 8088 clone had.
The 286 had a faster CPU and bigger Harddrive, but to me I wasn't as comfortable using it as I was with the first computer we used.

Later again, the 386 was put on our desk.

I was using the Commodore 64 system at home while learning to use DOS at work on those 3 computers.
My first DOS PC at home had DOS 5.0 , I couldn't get interested in wanting the early release's of DOS 6 .
But that's Me.

Ed
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)

K&R BASIC was an Educational Tool until the founders of Micro Soft gave it a (C) and TM and sought Licenses for their BASIC.

Ed
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)

--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)

Sorry, tapped wrong area on this phone.
Last message to You was same as My I.Q. ZERO.
Ed
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)

Where I worked, my section first got a 'hand me down' 8088 XT Clone when our boss got a 286.
When the boss got a 386, the 286 came our way.

My section used those PCs to send Morning and Evening reports to another office.
Myself, I thought the 286 seemed slower saving downloads than the 8088 clone had.
The 286 had a faster CPU and bigger Harddrive, but to me I wasn't as comfortable using it as I was with the first computer we used.

Later again, the 386 was put on our desk.

I was using the Commodore 64 system at home while learning to use DOS at work on those 3 computers.
My first DOS PC at home had DOS 5.0 , I couldn't get interested in wanting the early release's of DOS 6 .
But that's Me.

nice story!
:DDD what u think of the 286?

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... This virus requires Microsoft Windows 3.x

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

Sorry, tapped wrong area on this phone.
Last message to You was same as My I.Q. ZERO.
Ed

lol it's a okay! :D :3

--mary4 (Victoria Crenshaw) the 286 enthusiast

... Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Datanet BBS | telnet://datanetbbs.net:23 (21:1/166)

My first DOS PC at home had DOS 5.0 , I couldn't get interested in
wanting the
early release's of DOS 6 .
But that's Me.

IIRC, the early versions of DOS 6 were not a big improvement over DOS 5.0
and were actually buggy. I did not make any quick moves to upgrade from
5 to 6, either, staying with 5 until well after the release of DOS 6.22.
I had the benefit of upgrading systems where I worked and seeing what the various flavors of DOS 6 did (or didn't) do, and 6.22 seemed fairly
stable.


--- Talisman v0.53-dev (Linux/armv7l)
* Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * telnet:24/ssh:2122/ftelnet:80 (21:4/134)

Blue White wrote to Ed Vance <=-

IIRC, the early versions of DOS 6 were not a big improvement over DOS
5.0 and were actually buggy.

Buggy in a serious way -- early disk compression software had some
serious issues and ate filesystems occasionally.

I remember the AddStor/Stacker/Doublespace/Drivespace days well. Tried
running the BBS with Superstor for a while, worked OK - especially since
my co-sysop worked in QA there, so I had top-notch access to tech
support. :)




... This is it -- the center of the maze...
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: Re: Early PCs
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Blue White on Wed Apr 24 2024 07:17 am

IIRC, the early versions of DOS 6 were not a big improvement over DOS 5.0
and were actually buggy.

Buggy in a serious way -- early disk compression software had some serious issues and ate filesystems occasionally.

Also, I remember hearing about a lawsuit against Microsoft because they apparently used code from another product (I believe it was Stacker) for their DoubleSpace disk compression software. Microsoft removed DoubleSpace in MS-DOS 6.21, and then added DriveSpace in MS-DOS 6.22, from what I recall.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Early PCs
By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Apr 24 2024 09:44 am

Also, I remember hearing about a lawsuit against Microsoft because they apparently used code from another product (I believe it was Stacker) for their DoubleSpace disk compression software. Microsoft removed DoubleSpace in MS-DOS 6.21, and then added DriveSpace in MS-DOS 6.22, from what I recall.

Yep, they did the old brain-drain thing. Start talks to acquire STAC, and while in negotiation, snarf enough data on the product to create your own product.

If I'm not mistaken, DriveSpace was essentially DoubleSpace 2.0, with improvements and the STAC-suspicious code removed. Microsoft gets a jump on their 1.0 product, pays a slap on the wrist to STAC, then kills the marketplace with their own free product. Sounds Familiar...
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

I remember the AddStor/Stacker/Doublespace/Drivespace days well. Tried running the BBS with Superstor for a while, worked OK - especially since

We had people here trying to flog systems with "160Mb" HDs in them, which for the most part turned out to be 80Mb MFM's that had compression added. Back
when 160Mb was still a large drive..

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Good Luck and drive offensively! (21:3/101)

We had people here trying to flog systems with "160Mb"
HDs in them, which for
the most part turned out to be 80Mb MFM's that had compression added. Back when 160Mb was still a large drive..

There definitely were plenty of PC sellers from the school of used car sales in those times! A heyday for that type.

The 'big' disks, due to compression, didn't work out so well for making more space for BBS file downloads! (amongst other issues, of course)

Disk compression was rather ... underwhelming ... when storing a bunch of .ZIP files. :)

Honestly though, the times I used DriveSpace and it didn't destroy all my data, it did seem like magic - more disk space for FREE!


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Re: Re: Early PCs
By: AKAcastor to Spectre on Wed Apr 24 2024 02:44 pm

The 'big' disks, due to compression, didn't work out so well for making more space for BBS file downloads! (amongst other issues, of course)

Disk compression was rather ... underwhelming ... when storing a bunch of .ZIP files. :)

Honestly though, the times I used DriveSpace and it didn't destroy all my data, it did seem like magic - more disk space for FREE!

Yeah, it all depended on what you were storing on your hard drive. I used Stacker for a while, and later I think I switched to Microsoft's DoubleSpace and DriveSpace. I didn't use it very long though - In 1996, I got my first job and had my own money, and with my first paycheck, I bought parts to build a new PC, including a much larger hard drive and I don't think I used drive compression after that.

Drive compression has its issues.. It generally slows down the computer, and there was one time for me when DOS booted up and the drive compression driver didn't load for some reason, so I couldn't access my files. I don't remember what I had to do to fix that..

Nightfox

Re: hello! :DD
By: Ed Vance to Blue White on Tue Apr 23 2024 02:40 pm

Where I worked, my section first got a 'hand me down' 8088 XT Clone when our boss got a 286.
When the boss got a 386, the 286 came our way.

And when your boss left his wife for their secretary... ?
--
digital man (rob)

Sling Blade quote #25:
Karl: they seen fit to put me in here and here I've been a great long while. Norco, CA WX: 66.5°F, 57.0% humidity, 6 mph NW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

Drive compression has its issues.. It generally slows down the
computer, and there was one time for me when DOS booted up and the
drive compression driver didn't load for some reason, so I couldn't
access my files. I don't remember what I had to do to fix that..

IIRC, it was suggested (but maybe not by Microsoft and the compression
vendors) that the boot device, C:, should not be compressed so in the
event of issues the system was still accessable for troubleshooting.



--- Talisman v0.53-dev (Linux/armv7l)
* Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * telnet:24/ssh:2122/ftelnet:80 (21:4/134)

Spectre wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

We had people here trying to flog systems with "160Mb" HDs in them,
which for the most part turned out to be 80Mb MFM's that had
compression added. Back when 160Mb was still a large drive..

Were those RLL drives? They used a special controller to write more
sectors per track on MFM drives.



... Potatoes are a social construct.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Were those RLL drives? They used a special controller to write more sectors per track on MFM drives.

We had drives of all flavours around back then. There weren't many RLLs or ESDIs for that matter, although they were sprinkled in for flavour and you to beat your head against a wall trying to figure out why they wouldn't run with your MFM controller :) But by far we had more MFMs than anything else, and
IDE was kinda just arriving. Still had IDE drives with steppers on them, voicecoil was really new and funky if you came across one.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Good Luck and drive offensively! (21:3/101)

Re: Re: Minix
By: tenser to Nightfox on Fri Apr 19 2024 08:19:12

Hi, tenser.

The bug, of course, is constraining to the length of the user
supplied password; the effect was that entering _no_ password
automatically authenticated the password (empty strings always
compare equal).

That's pretty shocking... a good proportion of people would find that by accident!

I'm not hugely surprised, though.

BobW
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: >>> Magnum BBS <<< - bbs.magnum.uk.net (21:1/205)

On 02 May 2024 at 06:13p, Bob Worm pondered and said...

That's pretty shocking... a good proportion of people would find that by accident!

The bug, of course, is constraining to the length of the user
supplied password; the effect was that entering _no_ password automatically authenticated the password (empty strings always
compare equal).

That's pretty shocking... a good proportion of people would find that by accident!

Yup, it wasn't great. :-D

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)