Just brainstorming here but...

I'm stubborn AF and insist on using period-accurate (aka my old and shitty 486 running MS-DOS 6.22) hardware when accessing BBS's. However, I'm almost at my wit's end on using a wifimodem because it mangles file transfers so frequently. (Some BBS's it works okay on, some it utterly fails, etc.)

When my new NIC shows up, I plan on investigating using mTCP to connect to systems instead. That would theoretically allow me to instead use it's http downloader to receive transfers from those sites that support it - which would be quite nice.

Would it be worthwhile in the community to investigate an escape sequence similar to zmodem's to signal to, and initiate those types of transfers for people like me (aka, me and only me) using such tools to handle file transfers? I assume the current expectation is to to just copy and paste the link to another window because your computer has more than 16MB of RAM and can multitask but if somebody's already written a tiny tcp/ip stack for x86 DOS I figured, why not take it all the way?

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Re: Escape Sequences to initiate HTTP transfers
By: deepthaw to All on Mon Nov 20 2023 08:44 am

I'm stubborn AF and insist on using period-accurate (aka my old and shitty 486 running MS-DOS 6.22) hardware when accessing BBS's. However, I'm almost at my wit's end on using a wifimodem because it mangles file transfers so frequently. (Some BBS's it works okay on, some it utterly fails, etc.)

I imagine its got to do with "telnet" vs "raw".

Where possible you want to use "raw" mode and in theory zmodem transfers should work just fine - well, depending on how fast your side is vs the sender's side. (zmodem doesnt do well when 1 side is faster than the other - over IP - because TCP buffers fill up and takes a long time to drain).

If you want to use a zmodem based mailer, then I should be able to help you out. My DOS bbs works well, and Spectre gets mail from me using FrontDoor.

When my new NIC shows up, I plan on investigating using mTCP to connect to systems instead. That would theoretically allow me to instead use it's http downloader to receive transfers from those sites that support it - which would be quite nice.

In theory I could also add on http mail transfers to clrghouz, if that helps... Its something that I've been meaning to implement, but havent got around to it yet. one day...


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I imagine its got to do with "telnet" vs "raw".

I've been fighting with it for quite some time. I've been changing between telnet, raw, different zmodem protocols, baud rates, everything. It's using a WiModem232 and on Synchronet BBS's it *usually* works okay, but everywhere else is a crapshoot (even though I'd assume everybody is using SEXYZ nowadays.) I even tried doing some sz/rz with my local FreeBSD box and no go.

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deepthaw wrote to All <=-

When my new NIC shows up, I plan on investigating using mTCP to connect
to systems instead. That would theoretically allow me to instead use
it's http downloader to receive transfers from those sites that support
it - which would be quite nice.

That does sound very cool. I created a DOS BBS environment in DOSBOX
with MTCP, Telix, Multimail, Qedit and all of my old DOS utils like
Xtree. File transfers were always a problem unless I slowed the connect
speed down to 38400.

(DOSBOX has a virtual comm port where you can emulate a COMX: port in DOS redirecting to a TCP port. Redirect COM1: to TCP 23, and send an ATDT
command with the name/IP of the BBS, and it connects. Works great for
telnet sessions, not so much for file transfers)

I used MTCP in DOSBOX with their tools, and it was solid.



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On 21 Nov 2023, poindexter FORTRAN said the following...

That does sound very cool. I created a DOS BBS environment in DOSBOX
with MTCP, Telix, Multimail, Qedit and all of my old DOS utils like
Xtree. File transfers were always a problem unless I slowed the connect speed down to 38400.

(DOSBOX has a virtual comm port where you can emulate a COMX: port in DOS redirecting to a TCP port. Redirect COM1: to TCP 23, and send an ATDT command with the name/IP of the BBS, and it connects. Works great for telnet sessions, not so much for file transfers)

I need to do more messing with virtualized DOS sessions too. I'm slowly building an ancient homelab with my old computers, and was actually relying on BBS's for a bit to get some files onto my 486 while I scrambled to get the necessary hardware to transfer files to it. (Windows 11 doesn't work with the USB <-> Serial adapter or I'd have used that.)

The really weird part is that zmodem works about 90% of the time for downloads, but consistently fails on uploads. Thankfully I've only been uploading .REP packets from BlueWave and they're small enough that using Kermit isn't a total killer. (Kermit? KERMIT? There's vintage, and then there's obsolete.)

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On 21 Nov 2023, deepthaw said the following...

Kermit isn't a total killer. (Kermit? KERMIT? There's vintage, and then there's obsolete.)

not really sure what you mean.. kermit is still in active development and has a large user base.

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Re: Re: Escape Sequences to initiate HTTP transfers
By: deepthaw to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Nov 21 2023 11:30 am

The really weird part is that zmodem works about 90% of the time for downloads, but consistently fails on uploads. Thankfully I've only been

So the "uploader" is the LAN, going to your serial modem thing?

This will be the fast network going to a slow network issue I'm guessing. zmodem doesnt handle the situation where one side is faster than the other. The sender finishes sending (but all the data is in a TCP buffer) and then starts its timer waiting for an ACK. When it doesnt get it, it things the connection is dead.

Meanwhile the receiver is unaware, and as it is slowly draining the TCP buffer...


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Would it be worthwhile in the community to investigate an escape sequence similar to zmodem's to signal to, and initiate those types of transfers for people like me (aka, me and only me) using such tools to handle file transfers? I assume the current expectation is to to just copy and paste

I believe this had to be handled both by the server communicating request to download via HTTP and providing validated URL somehow to the client.
Then client aside of being telnet.. should need to be able to side load http request in parallel to telnet communication. I haven't heard about such development, nor anybody to be interested in this. There was some conversation in other FTN (I think Spooknet) to introduce improved version of ZModem that could utilize Gigabit/fiber.. both seem to be concept to address fast download directly from BBS terminal connection.

Is that your goal or you fancy HTTP for some other reasons in such case?

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

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On 22 Nov 2023, hollowone said the following...

There was some conversation in other FTN (I think Spooknet) to introduce improved version of ZModem that could utilize Gigabit/fiber.. both seem
to be concept to address fast download directly from BBS terminal connection.

if it were just ssh.. ssh works kind of like a tunnel for multiple connections. often you only use the one: one terminal, one sftp connection, whatever, but people also commonly use this ability for port forwarding, X11 forwarding, or more rare, multiplexing..

if it was standardized for example that when you ssh to a bbs it also port forwards a specific port, then when you want to download a file you create a second connection tunneled over the same initial ssh connection and download the file. could even display the transfer progress with the BBS (think if you were reading messages and a download progress bar was in the read prompt) .. or when you try to log off it'd warn you you're still downloading like trying to close a browser does.

heck, you could even do weird stuff with the port forwarding like spawn a web browser tunneled over it to do web-bbs stuff over the real bbs, hidden from the wider internet.. or make the forwarded port connect to a shoutcast server lol

kinda went a bit overboard but you get the idea

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

kinda went a bit overboard but you get the idea

I do.. and I was not so knowledgeable about these details. Thanks.

Sounds like connecting these two aspects is more like inventing some new protocols kind of idea to me.

One the reasons why I love this community is that when we talk about tech, we are so much close to bare metal instead of layers of decorations...

cheers,
-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Is that your goal or you fancy HTTP for some other reasons in such case?

Reliable file transfers over a variety of transport methods for old computers when interfacing with bbses really. An improved zmodem (alphamodem?) or really anything would be neat.

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* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Re: Re: Escape Sequences to initiate HTTP transfers
By: deepthaw to hollowone on Sun Nov 26 2023 12:26 am

Is that your goal or you fancy HTTP for some other reasons in such case?

Reliable file transfers over a variety of transport methods for old computers when interfacing with bbses really. An improved zmodem (alphamodem?) or really anything would be neat.

I could probably add a http transport for mail packets from clrghouz. I have all the plumbing in place, just a matter of creating an API endpoint and delivering a packet via it.

If this helps your goal let me know...


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