• NET 1 tidy-up

    From Avon@21:1/101 to All on Fri Sep 16 17:50:18 2022
    Will be pruning several inactive nodes in the coming day or so...

    Then will circle back to echomail areas and look to consolidate some down also.

    Best, Avon.

    avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to Avon on Fri Sep 16 13:32:34 2022

    On Saturday, September 17th Avon was heard saying...
    Then will circle back to echomail areas and look to consolidate some down also.

    Any idea on what this will look like yet?


    --
    |08 ■ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
    |08 ■ |03xibalba|08.|03l33t|08.|03codes |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08)
    |08 ■ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic
    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.13-beta (linux; x64; 16.16.0)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Avon on Fri Sep 16 13:22:14 2022
    Will be pruning several inactive nodes in the coming day or so...

    Hey Avon, I'm curious, how do you figure out who is active and who is inactive? I really just want to learn more about FTN in general hehe.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to esc on Sat Sep 17 09:43:38 2022
    On 16 Sep 2022 at 01:22p, esc pondered and said...

    Will be pruning several inactive nodes in the coming day or so...

    Hey Avon, I'm curious, how do you figure out who is active and who is inactive? I really just want to learn more about FTN in general hehe.

    Hey esc :)

    I look at some of the stats reports in the echomail stats echo, if files and messages are getting up to 60+ days or more then those are nodes that get pruned.

    Folks seem keen to join and while they are active it's all milk and cookies but when they decide to shutter their BBS or not take part in fsxNet it's super rare for them to contact me or another HUB admin to say they are shutting down. Those who do are certainly appreciated for taking the time to let us know ;)

    Best, Paul.

    avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to NuSkooler on Sat Sep 17 09:59:30 2022
    On 16 Sep 2022 at 01:32p, NuSkooler pondered and said...

    On Saturday, September 17th Avon was heard saying...
    Then will circle back to echomail areas and look to consolidate some also.

    Any idea on what this will look like yet?

    Not totally but I'm thinking merge a number of topics down to far less echos. There's about 8 echos off the top of my head that could go this way or just be pulled.

    I think it's been good to try some things but merging some would be the way to go I think.

    For likes of Enigma 1/2 and Talisman (and Mystic) it's been suggested to merge them down to the FSX_BBS echo but I am not sure about that. Still kind of like the separated support making it easier to find subject related stuff...

    Any thoughts appreciated on what should stay/go/merge etc.

    Avon.

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Nightfox to Avon on Fri Sep 16 15:19:22 2022
    Re: Re: NET 1 tidy-up
    By: Avon to esc on Sat Sep 17 2022 09:43 am

    Folks seem keen to join and while they are active it's all milk and cookies but when they decide to shutter their BBS or not take part in fsxNet it's super rare for them to contact me or another HUB admin to say they are shutting down. Those who do are certainly appreciated for taking the time to let us know ;)

    I've noticed BBSers generally don't often notify people when they're going down for other things too. There's a message network I'm connected to now, but over the years it has gone down and changed hands several times without me knowing because I didn't see a notification about it. :)

    Nightfox
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Nightfox on Sat Sep 17 10:47:27 2022
    On 16 Sep 2022 at 03:19p, Nightfox pondered and said...

    I've noticed BBSers generally don't often notify people when they're
    going down for other things too. There's a message network I'm
    connected to now, but over the years it has gone down and changed hands several times without me knowing because I didn't see a notification
    about it. :)

    I think if I 'pop my cogs' or decide to leave I need to have a master plan worked out over 20+ years so I can press a red button and things swing into action and computers start whirring to send out updates :)

    Avon.

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Avon on Fri Sep 16 21:56:00 2022
    Avon wrote to NuSkooler <=-

    Then will circle back to echomail areas and look to consolidate some also.

    Any idea on what this will look like yet?

    Not totally but I'm thinking merge a number of topics down to far
    less echos. There's about 8 echos off the top of my head that
    could go this way or just be pulled.

    I think it's been good to try some things but merging some would
    be the way to go I think.

    I agree with that idea 100%.

    For likes of Enigma 1/2 and Talisman (and Mystic) it's been
    suggested to merge them down to the FSX_BBS echo but I am not
    sure about that. Still kind of like the separated support making
    it easier to find subject related stuff...

    Any thoughts appreciated on what should stay/go/merge etc.

    I would think Mystic could/should have it's own echo due to the number
    of people using it, and larger message volume. The other BBS software
    has far fewer users and could be combined into one echo.

    Additionally, I think the Sports/Gardening/Artistic/Transportation (and probably a few more, those are from memory) don't get enough traffic to justify having an echo. Having fewer echos with more messages in each
    seems to be a better approach to me. Cheers!



    ... If the #2 pencil is the most popular, why's it still #2?
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Avon on Fri Sep 16 20:11:30 2022
    I look at some of the stats reports in the echomail stats echo, if files and messages are getting up to 60+ days or more then those are nodes
    that get pruned.

    Ah gotcha. I'd love to figure out how to build my own local stats to understand messages from each echo, each network, last update, etc., but maybe this is something I'll have to figure out on my own if using Mystic for my binkp server.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From apam@21:1/182 to Avon on Sat Sep 17 15:58:07 2022
    Not totally but I'm thinking merge a number of topics down to far less echos. There's about 8 echos off the top of my head that could go this
    way or just be pulled.

    Why?

    I'm pretty sure I'm subscribed to all the echos on fsxnet and every
    single one of them has messages in them, some not many, but they're
    actual messages.

    - and I spun this board up relativly recently (in the last few months),
    so it's not like there's been 8 messages since inception in one echo.

    If people don't want to see echos with few messages, they can unlink from
    them.

    When fsxnet started, it had one echo, fsx_gen (I'm sure you remember, but others might not) and there was an issue where new people often thought
    fsxnet was technical related and non technical posts weren't welcome.

    By having a gardening echo, people can be sure gardening chat is welcome,
    and while most of the time they might be out in the sunshine not posting messages, it's there if they want to. If gardening was relegated to
    general, it may lead to people thinking well gardening chat isn't really
    wanted - even though general covers it.

    Also, keep in mind, that pruning echos means everyone has to update their systems (even if it's just setting those areas as readonly or archived)
    though adding echos is much easier, because you can ignore them and link
    them when you like.

    What about having some notice in the info packet instead, like General
    (High Traffic) Gardening (Low Traffic)

    Cryptography (Very Low Traffic)

    People can then decide and prune themselves.

    As for getting rid of Talisman / Enigma echos, or rolling them into
    general BBS support - I'm not a fan of that, because I don't want to wade through a bunch of other bbs support questions, and then miss one and
    have people think I don't care. Plus Bryan and I are here. It also seems
    to me, that they are obvious echos for people to not link to - someone
    running Renegade might not care what happens in Talisman echo.

    Anyway, that's my 2c.

    Andrew


    --- Talisman v0.43-dev (Windows/x64)
    * Origin: Smuggler's Cove - Private BBS (21:1/182)
  • From Oli@21:3/102 to apam on Sat Sep 17 08:16:16 2022
    apam wrote (2022-09-17):

    Not totally but I'm thinking merge a number of topics down to far less
    echos. There's about 8 echos off the top of my head that could go this
    way or just be pulled.

    Why?

    Exactly, why the trouble? I agree with everything apam wrote.

    Also, keep in mind, that pruning echos means everyone has to update their systems (even if it's just setting those areas as readonly or archived) though adding echos is much easier, because you can ignore them and link them when you like.
    +1

    Echomail is not a web forum, so it is impossible to merge or split without disruption. I don't want to dump the old messages, so there would be old read-only echos still hanging around and the next split/merge/delete would add other old echos.

    As for getting rid of Talisman / Enigma echos, or rolling them into
    general BBS support - I'm not a fan of that,

    Me neither.

    because I don't want to wade
    through a bunch of other bbs support questions, and then miss one and
    have people think I don't care.

    It's very convenient to just look at the area list and see if new messages for FSX_MAG / FSX_ENG have arrived.

    Also FSX_MYS is the echo with the second most traffic (if you ignore FSX_TST). Merging it with FSX_BBS, FSX_MAG, FSX_ENG would be equivalent to renaming FSX_MYS to FSX_BBS and killing the other three echos.



    ---
    * Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Avon on Sat Sep 17 05:47:24 2022
    On 17 Sep 22 09:43:38, Avon said the following to Esc:

    I look at some of the stats reports in the echomail stats echo, if files and messages are getting up to 60+ days or more then those are nodes that get pruned.

    I run the same sort of stats here, but on the mailbox/staging directories for each downlink.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Charles Blackburn@21:1/221 to Gamgee on Sat Sep 17 08:30:16 2022
    Re: Re: NET 1 tidy-up
    By: Gamgee to Avon on Fri Sep 16 2022 21:56:00

    I think it's been good to try some things but merging some would
    be the way to go I think.

    I would think Mystic could/should have it's own echo due to the number
    of people using it, and larger message volume. The other BBS software
    has far fewer users and could be combined into one echo.

    Totally agree on this.

    Additionally, I think the Sports/Gardening/Artistic/Transportation (and probably a few more, those are from memory) don't
    get enough traffic to justify having an echo. Having fewer echos with more messages in each
    seems to be a better approach to me. Cheers!

    agree somewhat with this too.. however i would keep generic subjects together for example, I would suggest something along the lines of:

    sports
    hobbies (gardening etc)
    creativity (art and fancy schmancy stuf)
    transportation

    regards
    Charles Blackburn
    SYSOP - The F.B.O BBS 21:1/221
    Aviation related fun @ bbs.thefbo.us IPV4 and IPV6
    DOVE-Net FSX-Net USENET
    Coming soon: FIDO-Net
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: The FBO BBS - bbs.thefbo.us (21:1/221)
  • From MATT MUNSON@21:4/108 to Avon on Sat Sep 17 11:28:11 2022
    and messages are getting up to 60+ days or more then those are nodes
    that get pruned.

    The best procedure is to do a last poll, areafix all the areas out and wola.

    ... A Meteor is an example of a rock star.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (21:4/108)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Gamgee on Sun Sep 18 18:21:52 2022
    On 16 Sep 2022 at 09:56p, Gamgee pondered and said...

    I think it's been good to try some things but merging some would
    be the way to go I think.

    I agree with that idea 100%.

    OK, thanks for your feedback on that.

    I would think Mystic could/should have it's own echo due to the number
    of people using it, and larger message volume. The other BBS software has far fewer users and could be combined into one echo.

    Hmm not sure about that but appreciate the thoughts. Let's see what others think.

    Additionally, I think the Sports/Gardening/Artistic/Transportation (and probably a few more, those are from memory) don't get enough traffic to justify having an echo. Having fewer echos with more messages in each seems to be a better approach to me. Cheers!

    Yes I am leaning this way also.

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to esc on Sun Sep 18 18:23:03 2022
    On 16 Sep 2022 at 08:11p, esc pondered and said...

    Ah gotcha. I'd love to figure out how to build my own local stats to understand messages from each echo, each network, last update, etc., but maybe this is something I'll have to figure out on my own if using
    Mystic for my binkp server.

    I think these ones are generated using scripts that shipped with HPT tosser etc... but I agree if Mystic had some further stats that could be generated based on echomail and file traffic etc. would be helpful.

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to apam on Sun Sep 18 21:31:59 2022
    On 17 Sep 2022 at 03:58p, apam pondered and said...

    Hey there :)

    I'm going to jump about in my reply a bit.

    As for getting rid of Talisman / Enigma echos, or rolling them into general BBS support - I'm not a fan of that, because I don't want to wade through a bunch of other bbs support questions, and then miss one and
    have people think I don't care. Plus Bryan and I are here. It also seems to me, that they are obvious echos for people to not link to - someone running Renegade might not care what happens in Talisman echo.

    I agree. Unless either you or Bryan are keen to see those echos removed I'm more than happy for them to remain. I appreciate that you guys both post and support them with updates and offering help to folks who are using the software you both write.

    I'm also of the same view to retain the Mystic echo despite g00r00 not being active in it.

    When fsxnet started, it had one echo, fsx_gen (I'm sure you remember, but others might not) and there was an issue where new people often thought fsxnet was technical related and non technical posts weren't welcome.

    By having a gardening echo, people can be sure gardening chat is welcome, and while most of the time they might be out in the sunshine not posting messages, it's there if they want to. If gardening was relegated to general, it may lead to people thinking well gardening chat isn't really wanted - even though general covers it.

    I agree that having one general echo became to much and that you'll recall it was mostly chat about Mystic that lead to FSX_MYS being created first to split that banter off to it's own echo etc. I don't recall the tech vs non-tech issue that much for FSX_GEN but feel folks largely could discuss most things in GEN simply because in those early days that's about all there was :)

    Re your Gardening comments, not I'm not thinking of moving such a topic back to FSX_GEN but am thinking of grouping several topics that currently have some chatter in specific echos down into one more broader encompassing echo.

    Also, keep in mind, that pruning echos means everyone has to update their systems (even if it's just setting those areas as readonly or archived) though adding echos is much easier, because you can ignore them and link them when you like.

    Yes I agree it would require work for all but if it's good enough to add some it should be fine also to shutter some or merge stuff down.

    My thinking is that echos such as DIY, arts, gardening, transport, food, could merge into a lifestyle echomail area that also covered travel, health and fitness, pets, road trips, travel for example.

    So a new echo is created and several are closed. But in doing this I propose to forward all messages from the to be shuttered echos into the newly created one as a starting point so that overall no previously posted content is lost.

    What about having some notice in the info packet instead, like General (High Traffic) Gardening (Low Traffic)
    Cryptography (Very Low Traffic)

    Yes I could do that, and sorta have already if you look at the Fidonet elist monthly reports... but I take you're point on this... I also think the stats the NET 1 HUB has been posting each week (up until the last week or so when I shut it down for now) were also sharing such information as folks could see a weekly summary in the echomail stats area of what traffic and subjects etc were being created in each fsxNet echo over the last 7 days...

    If people don't want to see echos with few messages, they can unlink from them.

    true, but one thing I'm not overly happy about when those 11 new echos were created in May 2021 was that depending on which HUB you were connected to you may or may not have been connected to the echos when they were set up.

    There's differing points of view on this one, one one hand it's 'let nodes areafix the new echos and link to them if they want' on the other hand I'm more of the view to 'link all nodes to the new echos and let them areafix them off if they don't want them'

    I favour the latter approach as a number of systems are running on auto and sysops may not be active in keeping up with adding new echos so by linking at a HUB at least (for most systems that are set to auto create new bases) the new echos become discoverable by users of a BBS when they are created.

    I should also acknowledge that the same sysop inaction can/will also cause issues when at a network level we opt to remove an echo only for someone to post to it again from a BBS whose sysop has not removed or disabled the users access to the now defunct echo(s)... this means (I guess) that at a HUB level we need to try and find ways to ensure stuff posted to a retired fsxNet echomail area is not passed along to other nodes. That's something I'm not sure how best to deal to at the moment but I guess it comes down to write privs for nodes at the HUBs

    Why?

    In May 2021 it was an experiment to create more echomail areas on a bunch of broad topics to see if there was strong appeal and usage of such echos. Running the numbers over the last 15 months here's what I've seen at NET 1

    FSX_DIY 38
    FSX_ARTS 75
    FSX_SPORTS 88
    FSX_GARDENING 90
    FSX_FOOD 108
    FSX_SPACE 114
    FSX_GAMING 308
    FSX_TRANSPORT 326
    FSX_VIDEO 388
    FSX_MUSIC 614
    FSX_RETRO 1441

    Now by comparison the FSX_MYS echo generated 1582 posts over the same 481 day period, while FSX_GEN generated 11,498 posts over the same time period.

    Looking to the above list I'm hard pressed to say for the 15+ months these echos have been rolling along that many have generated popularity such that the numbers of posts have been upwards of 1000 during that time.

    Arguably the retro echomail area is a winner and the music echo has done well also. Some others are circa 300 posts the rest are well down the pegging order.

    I ran some analysis across all the newer echos. In a number of cases the numbers of subjects covered during the 15 months were very low and for some echos it was I that posted the most messages over that time frame (as I sought to generate some chatter on things).

    So you'll understand when I look at some echos and see myself as the guy who posted the most things in an echo that say had only 100 odd messages in total it's hard to not to look at it and say 'was this that popular'?

    You'll know that I've always been keen to ensure an echomail area enjoys a reasonable amount of traffic through it and have thought trying to 'keep things simple' and not end up having more echomail areas with less chat in them each, was a position best avoided.

    I'm thinking in the interests of keeping things experimental it would be worth revisiting the numbers of echomail areas and (whist retaining the old content from all those that may be shuttered) merging some down into a fewer number in the hopes of more chatter in those that remain.

    For the likes of the sports, music, video/tv, gaming echos I'm thinking they could be merged into a entertainment echo to cover those subjects along with things like books, concerts, live theater etc.

    Selfishly (and because I'm ZC) I am thinking of retaining the space, crypto echos as they are, crypto I do want to keep for future chat about encryption more so than bitcon banter etc.. and space, I like as a specific subject (much like ham radio) and feel with NASA Artimis and SpaceX stuff happening there's more future scope to discuss those happenings with interested folks.

    The retro echo should remain, that's a given as it's done well over the 15+ months.

    So that's a rather long reply for you (and all who read it) as to where my thinking is at at the moment :)

    Happy to be further challenged on things but I do feel things need to be changed, by how much I'm probably 70%+ positive towards the thinking I've outlined above.

    Best, Paul

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to All on Sun Sep 18 21:34:11 2022
    On 16 Sep 2022 at 05:50p, Avon pondered and said...

    Will be pruning several inactive nodes in the coming day or so...

    This has taken place and there's around 6 nodes with 60+ day inaction that have been removed. There's a few pushing 30+ days I've got my eye on also.

    Then will circle back to echomail areas and look to consolidate some
    down also.

    Thanks to all so far for your inputs.

    I'll share some stats from the research I've been doing looking into the more recent (May 2021) echos performances and how they have done, subjects covered etc.. will post those stats over a few separate posts to follow...

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Atreyu on Sun Sep 18 21:53:11 2022
    On 17 Sep 2022 at 05:47a, Atreyu pondered and said...

    I run the same sort of stats here, but on the mailbox/staging
    directories for each downlink.

    Yep, such stats are super useful :)

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Warpslide@21:3/110.1 to Avon on Sun Sep 18 10:50:14 2022
    *** Quoting Avon from a message to esc ***

    I think these ones are generated using scripts that shipped with HPT tosser etc...

    I'd like to play around more with these. I really like the ones that Castle Rock posts to the various Stats/Robots echos.


    Jay

    ... For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism

    --- Telegard v3.09.g2-sp4/mL
    * Origin: Northern Realms | tg.nrbbs.net | 289-424-5180 (21:3/110.1)
  • From claw@21:1/210 to Avon on Mon Sep 19 07:57:07 2022
    What do we need to do on our end once you prune these? Do I need to manually remove the old bases? Do I need create new ones? Just want to know what all is involved.

    |23|04Dr|16|12Claw
    |16|14Sysop |12Noverdu |14BBS |04(|14Noverdu.com|04)
    |10Standard Ports for SSH/Telnet Web/HTTP://|14Noverdu.com:808
    |20|15fsxNet/MRC Chat/Registered Doors!/50Nodes/No Time Use! Stay On!|16|07

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Noverdu BBS (21:1/210)
  • From Sneaky@21:1/152.2 to apam on Tue Sep 20 10:47:00 2022
    Hi Avon <=-


    Also, keep in mind, that pruning echos means everyone has to update
    their systems (even if it's just setting those areas as readonly or archived) though adding echos is much easier, because you can ignore
    them and link them when you like.

    What about having some notice in the info packet instead, like General (High Traffic) Gardening (Low Traffic)

    Cryptography (Very Low Traffic)

    People can then decide and prune themselves.

    As for getting rid of Talisman / Enigma echos, or rolling them into general BBS support - I'm not a fan of that, because I don't want to
    wade through a bunch of other bbs support questions, and then miss one
    and have people think I don't care. Plus Bryan and I are here. It also seems to me, that they are obvious echos for people to not link to - someone running Renegade might not care what happens in Talisman echo.

    As far as the fsxnet echos I am happy the way they are and I agree
    with adam, if members don't want same echos. them unlink them
    but I except what ever happens

    Sneaky 6th Choice Core
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49

    --- Talisman v0.42-dev (Linux/armv7l)
    * Origin: 6th Choice Core (21:1/152.2)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to Avon on Mon Sep 19 18:56:44 2022

    On Monday, September 19th Avon was heard saying...
    I agree. Unless either you or Bryan are keen to see those echos removed I'm more than happy for them to remain. I appreciate that you guys both post and support them with updates and offering help to folks who are using the software you both write.
    I'm also of the same view to retain the Mystic echo despite g00r00 not being active in it.

    Yes please! Also yes, Mystic gets so much traffic I think it clearly makes sense with or without it's author.


    On Monday, September 19th Avon was heard saying...
    Re your Gardening comments, not I'm not thinking of moving such a topic back to FSX_GEN but am thinking of grouping several topics that currently have some chatter in specific echos down into one more broader encompassing echo.

    This makes sense to me


    Avon around Monday, September 19th...
    My thinking is that echos such as DIY, arts, gardening, transport, food, could merge into a lifestyle echomail area that also covered travel, health and fitness, pets, road trips, travel for example.

    +1 to this general theme.

    Thanks Avon!




    --
    |08 ■ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
    |08 ■ |03xibalba|08.|03l33t|08.|03codes |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08)
    |08 ■ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic
    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.13-beta (linux; x64; 16.16.0)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Sneaky on Tue Sep 20 19:06:24 2022
    On 20 Sep 2022 at 10:47a, Sneaky pondered and said...

    As far as the fsxnet echos I am happy the way they are and I agree
    with adam, if members don't want same echos. them unlink them
    but I except what ever happens

    Thanks good sir.

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to claw on Tue Sep 20 19:25:17 2022
    On 19 Sep 2022 at 07:57a, claw pondered and said...

    What do we need to do on our end once you prune these? Do I need to manually remove the old bases? Do I need create new ones? Just want to know what all is involved.

    Hi there.

    You would want to delete the old message bases from your BBS and ensure you are delinked from them at your HUB (assuming your HUB admin has not already done this for you).

    If we do end up pruning some echomail areas and merging things down to a few new ones I will ensure the old messages are copied across to the new echomail areas.

    You can then either manually add any newly established echomail areas to your BBS (assuming we set up a few new ones) or set your BBS to auto-create them when messages are sent to them and to your BBS from your HUB.

    Once the HUB has made any changes to available echomail areas you may want to do an areafix to list and confirm you are linked to them.

    I would then send a Areafix request to the HUB to request a rescan of the contents of the new echomail areas so that the HUB sends your BBS all the messages it has on hand for the new bases you're after.

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to NuSkooler on Tue Sep 20 19:26:17 2022
    On 19 Sep 2022 at 06:56p, NuSkooler pondered and said...

    Yes please! Also yes, Mystic gets so much traffic I think it clearly
    makes sense with or without it's author.

    Done. Those echos won't be touched. Thanks Nu.

    Re your Gardening comments, not I'm not thinking of moving such a top back to FSX_GEN but am thinking of grouping several topics that curre have some chatter in specific echos down into one more broader encompassing echo.

    This makes sense to me

    Cheers.

    My thinking is that echos such as DIY, arts, gardening, transport, fo could merge into a lifestyle echomail area that also covered travel, health and fitness, pets, road trips, travel for example.

    +1 to this general theme.

    Thanks Avon!

    No probs, thanks for the feedback.

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Oli@21:3/102 to Avon on Tue Sep 20 09:19:48 2022
    Avon wrote (2022-09-20):

    If we do end up pruning some echomail areas and merging things down to a few new ones I will ensure the old messages are copied across to the new echomail areas.

    How would that work, technically?



    ---
    * Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)
  • From claw@21:1/210 to Avon on Tue Sep 20 07:51:07 2022
    On 20 Sep 2022, Avon said the following...

    On 19 Sep 2022 at 07:57a, claw pondered and said...

    Hi there.

    You would want to delete the old message bases from your BBS and ensure you are delinked from them at your HUB (assuming your HUB admin has not already done this for you).

    If we do end up pruning some echomail areas and merging things down to a few new ones I will ensure the old messages are copied across to the new echomail areas.

    You can then either manually add any newly established echomail areas to your BBS (assuming we set up a few new ones) or set your BBS to auto-create them when messages are sent to them and to your BBS from
    your HUB.

    Once the HUB has made any changes to available echomail areas you may
    want to do an areafix to list and confirm you are linked to them.

    I would then send a Areafix request to the HUB to request a rescan of the contents of the new echomail areas so that the HUB sends your BBS all the messages it has on hand for the new bases you're after.

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

    So the next question. When is it ready for me to do all this?

    |23|04Dr|16|12Claw
    |16|14Sysop |12Noverdu |14BBS |04(|14Noverdu.com|04)
    |10Standard Ports for SSH/Telnet Web/HTTP://|14Noverdu.com:808
    |20|15fsxNet/MRC Chat/Registered Doors!/50Nodes/No Time Use! Stay On!|16|07

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Noverdu BBS (21:1/210)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to claw on Wed Sep 21 09:30:39 2022
    On 20 Sep 2022 at 07:51a, claw pondered and said...

    So the next question. When is it ready for me to do all this?

    any changes I'll sign post here and also over in FSX_GEN we're not there as yet.

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Wed Sep 21 20:23:00 2022
    On 09-20-22 19:25, Avon wrote to claw <=-

    On 19 Sep 2022 at 07:57a, claw pondered and said...

    What do we need to do on our end once you prune these? Do I need to manually remove the old bases? Do I need create new ones? Just want to know what all is involved.

    Hi there.

    You would want to delete the old message bases from your BBS and ensure you are delinked from them at your HUB (assuming your HUB admin has not already done this for you).

    If we do end up pruning some echomail areas and merging things down to
    a few new ones I will ensure the old messages are copied across to the
    new echomail areas.

    Not something I really want to go through, especially before the end of this year, where I'm in a high stress period with some downtime expected for a house move. I need a lot of "spoons" to get through that process.


    ... "Do you, Sysop, take this BBS, to be your wedded spouse?"
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Vk3jed on Thu Sep 22 12:20:10 2022
    On 21 Sep 2022 at 08:23p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    Not something I really want to go through, especially before the end of this year, where I'm in a high stress period with some downtime expected for a house move. I need a lot of "spoons" to get through that process.

    my apologies then (in advance) should we end up changing, but I think it's reasonable to make changes from time to time and those changes can include removals as well as additions.

    I guess best case for you may be to simply set removed bases to sysop only on your system so no one can post to them and allow your system to auto create anything new sent to it, of which there may only be a very small few.

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Oli on Thu Sep 22 12:20:46 2022
    On 20 Sep 2022 at 09:19a, Oli pondered and said...

    If we do end up pruning some echomail areas and merging things down to few new ones I will ensure the old messages are copied across to the n echomail areas.

    How would that work, technically?

    read/write permissions I expect.

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Oli@21:3/102 to Avon on Thu Sep 22 09:24:23 2022
    Avon wrote (2022-09-22):

    On 20 Sep 2022 at 09:19a, Oli pondered and said...

    If we do end up pruning some echomail areas and merging things
    down to few new ones I will ensure the old messages are copied
    across to the n echomail areas.

    How would that work, technically?

    read/write permissions I expect.

    My question was more about the copying and distribution of the old mails. Do you want to copy the messages as they are to the new echo and then export the old mail from the new echo to every downlink? Will MSGIDs and dates stay the same? I would expect some tossers / nodes would sort the mails to the DUPES or BAD area. Or do you want to forward the messages with a new header to the new echo, which would break threading. Or is there some magic tool or other way of merging echos that would avoid the problems? I'm curious if merging of old messages into a new echo is possible without creating a mess.

    Anyway, I don't grant permissions to copy/merge _my_ mails from old to new echos. Quoting and cross-quoting is fine, but I expect that my original mail is distributed unmodified, which includes the AREA: line and the context they are appearing in.

    My proposal: create new echos (if you really have to) and retire the old ones slowly. First read/write with weekly reminders, then read-only. When everyone had a chance to pickup the new echos, then the old ones can be purged from the Hubs / Areafix. BBSing is slow.



    ---
    * Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Oli on Fri Sep 23 15:18:10 2022
    On 22 Sep 2022 at 09:24a, Oli pondered and said...

    My question was more about the copying and distribution of the old
    mails. Do you want to copy the messages as they are to the new echo and then export the old mail from the new echo to every downlink? Will
    MSGIDs and dates stay the same? I would expect some tossers / nodes
    would sort the mails to the DUPES or BAD area. Or do you want to forward the messages with a new header to the new echo, which would break threading. Or is there some magic tool or other way of merging echos
    that would avoid the problems? I'm curious if merging of old messages
    into a new echo is possible without creating a mess.

    Well my thinking is to do the latter, so forwarding the messages posted in a echo (to be removed) to the new echo, and doing so in the order the original messages were posted in.

    Testing things last night I can see how I can forward a message into a new echo and in doing so a new MSGID is created. So messages in the new echo shouldn't (hopefully) be picked up as dupes from the old echo.

    Yes, the threading of old messages that are forwarded would break but in forwarding them in sequence I think the overall meaning of who said what and when should not be lost on anyone stepping through the messages in sequence. Of course, any further replies to those messages would pick up their new MSGIDs and the opportunities for threaded conversations would resume.

    Anyway, I don't grant permissions to copy/merge _my_ mails from old to
    new echos. Quoting and cross-quoting is fine, but I expect that my original mail is distributed unmodified, which includes the AREA: line
    and the context they are appearing in.

    Sigh. What is your concern? If the full discourse is being carried over between echos and the contents of your posts are not being modified other than the fact that they are now in a new echo that supports carries the very subjects the threads you feature in, I fail to see the issue.

    My proposal: create new echos (if you really have to) and retire the old ones slowly. First read/write with weekly reminders, then read-only.
    When everyone had a chance to pickup the new echos, then the old ones
    can be purged from the Hubs / Areafix. BBSing is slow.

    Well thanks for your proposal but I don't feel the BBSing needs to be 'slow' nor does the pace of changing echomail setup for the network has to be a incrementally measured as you suggest.

    Conversations about the more recently introduced echomail areas have been happening here for nine months now... I can't be accused of rushing things :)

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Sun Sep 25 18:22:00 2022
    On 09-22-22 12:20, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    my apologies then (in advance) should we end up changing, but I think
    it's reasonable to make changes from time to time and those changes can include removals as well as additions.

    Fair enough, but it's still an issue.

    I guess best case for you may be to simply set removed bases to sysop
    only on your system so no one can post to them and allow your system to auto create anything new sent to it, of which there may only be a very small few.

    Auto create may or may not work for me - have to see what the "clean up" implications are. :) Sysop only for deleted bases is a good idea.


    ... A Bluewave of avalanche proportions.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)