Added Node 4/107 The X-Bit BBS (USA) please welcome Rob McGee aka xbit
who has shifted from a QWK connection to fsxNet and
now sports a FTN node number. The BBS can be reached
at x-bit.org use port 23 for Telnet and 2222 for SSH.
I turned away for just a second but when I checked back history.txt has again changed. I may need to call Ghostbusters as this keeps happening
;-)
Added Node 1/193 Disconnected by Peer BBS (AUT) please welcome sysop
Mario Fetka aka geos_one who hails from Graz in
Austria. Mario is running a Mystic BBS under Linux and
Added Node 1/235 ZorgluBBS (FRA) bonjour to sysop Pierre Pignon aka
Pitichampi who has started his Mystic BBS based in
Bordeaux. You can visit his system by heading to
Added Node 1/236 Lunar Mod (USA) please give a warm welcome to sysop
David Thielemann aka Apollo based in New Port Richey Apollo is running a Talisman BBS that you can visit by
Added Node 1/238 The Global Village BBS (NLD) also joining the fsxNet
community today is sysop Sebastian van der Veen aka dozo
who is based in Emmen, NLD. The BBS is running Mystic
can be reached at x-bit.org use port 23 for TelnetWelcome to fsxNet, xbit! Nice to have you here!
and 2222 for SSH.
Thank you Zip! The switch from QWK > FTN went very well.
FTN is quite a bit different, but nicer when configured. No QWK IDs to worry about, etc... Although QWK is nice for offline mail. =)
FTN + OpenXP is very nice for offline mail!
Check out https://openxp.kolico.ca ;)
Ah! For a bit I was worried that there was only one new BBS and 4 or
so
removed... but now it's looking better!
Ah! For a bit I was worried that there was only one new BBS and 4
or so removed... but now it's looking better!
Nope, I'm at least 1 of the new BBSes.
Take Care, Apollo
--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/x86_64) * Origin: Lunar Mod (21:1/236)
Welcome, Mario, Pierre, David & Sebastian! Nice to have you here!
Best regards
Zip
Added Node 3/175 One Ring BBS (USA) welcome to sysop Dylan McIntosh aka
Cognative who is based in Markle, Indiana. Cognative is
Added Node 2/125 Mystic Hobbies BBS (USA) a warm welcome to sysop Mike Dippel from Sun City Center, FL. Mike is running a
Added Node 3/176 FlipperZero BBS (ITA) Ciao e Benvenuto to Guido Giorgi aka Baconlive. Baconlive is running his Mystic BBS
FTN is quite a bit different, but nicer when configured. No QWK IDs to worry about, etc... Although QWK is nice for offline mail. =)
Who worries about QWK IDs? Maybe you mean QWK conference numbers?
They're the equivalent of echo-tags in FTN and once setup, not much to worry about like (like echo-tags).
Hello Digital Man!
On 26 Feb 2023, Digital Man said the following...
Who worries about QWK IDs? Maybe you mean QWK conference numbers? They're the equivalent of echo-tags in FTN and once setup, not much to worry about like (like echo-tags).
Sorry, yes, that's what I meant. :-D
(They're called "QWK Base IDs" -- and the QWK IDs "QWK Packet IDs" -- in Mystic...)
Ah, good to know. I do plan to introduce a QWK enhancement to use name-based (rather than number-based) conference identification for QWK networking, at least, to eliviate that historic QWK issue with the management of non-obvious numbering schemes.
Added Node 3/165 The Underground BBS (USA) welcome back Doug aka The
Godfather. You can reach the BBS at theunderground.us:10023 or port 7771 SSH.
Welcome back, tG! =)
Added Node 2/145 WalledCTTY (USA) welcome aboard to sysop Thom Miller aka
Abbub who is back to the 90s with his Tag 2.7d2 BBS running under MS-DOS 6.22 and DesqView 2.80 you can
reach the BBS via telnet at bbs.walledctty.com:1989
Welcome to fsxNet, Thom! Nice to have you here!Thanks! It's good to be here. I also ran my original board on DesqView in the 90s and then made the jump to OS/2. This machine I'm running only has 8 MB of RAM, though. If it'd had 16 MB, I probably would have gone with OS/2 2.x. DesqView is working remarkably well, though.
(I also used DesqView for some time for my BBS in the 90s. Later went
on to OS/2.)
Thanks! It's good to be here. I also ran my original board on
DesqView in the 90s and then made the jump to OS/2. This machine I'm
running only has 8 MB of RAM, though. If it'd had 16 MB, I probably
would have gone with OS/2 2.x. DesqView is working remarkably well,
though.
OS/2 will run with 8mb of ram... (Used to run it myself back in the day. Still have the CD(s).
What are you using/doing for the network stack?
Anything that shows up gets zipped up and netcat'd over to the 386, unzipped, and then processed by fastecho. There's also a logout.bat that runs fastecho to collect new messages, zips them up into an outbound.zip, and netcat's them over to the raspberry pi, where they're moved into the outbound directory and sent out by binkd.
Zip wrote to Thom Miller <=-
(I also used DesqView for some time for my BBS in the 90s. Later went
on to OS/2.)
vorlon wrote to Thom Miller <=-
Thanks! It's good to be here. I also ran my original board on
DesqView in the 90s and then made the jump to OS/2. This machine I'm
running only has 8 MB of RAM, though. If it'd had 16 MB, I probably
would have gone with OS/2 2.x. DesqView is working remarkably well,
though.
OS/2 will run with 8mb of ram... (Used to run it myself back in the
day. Still have the CD(s).
If you want everything to 'just work', buy IBM..."
In addition to running tcpser for the two USB serial dongles and
shunting ìtelnet connections to the serial ports on the 386, the pi 4
is running binkd ìand setup to connect to my boss node. Right now it's polling once an hour for ìnew packets.
unzipped, ìand then processed by fastecho. There's also a logout.bat
that runs fastecho ìto collect new messages, zips them up into an
OS/2 will run with 8mb of ram... (Used to run it myself back in
the day. Still have the CD(s).
I ran OS/2 2.x. and had a bear of a time installing it on a PS/2 model
80 with 8 mb of RAM. It'd complain about not having enough memory and reboot.
Doubt. "Sure, you could go with Compaq or another brand, but do you
really want to risk not being 100% IBM compatible? If you want
everything to 'just work', buy IBM..."
There was something about how the PS/2s registered add-on memory that
was only recognized after the system POSTed. OS/2 booted and installed
just fine this time, with 5 people standing around.
But, I got to tell the story about how it took 3 IBM techs and me to
boot OS/2.
Be aware that fastecho strip's seen-by's, and that can't be turned
off. I think there is a DOS version of fmail, that does a better job.
vorlon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
But, I got to tell the story about how it took 3 IBM techs and me to
boot OS/2.
Did you have to pay for there time though?
Be aware that fastecho strip's seen-by's, and that can't be
turned off. I think there is a DOS version of fmail, that does a
better job.
FastEcho only strips SEEN-BYs when an echomail message crosses Zone boundaries. Therefore it shouldn't be an issue in fsxNet, as that's
all one Zone.
The current versions of FMail are Win32 and Linux; I'm not sure
if the DOS and OS/2 versions are still being maintained/updated.
But, I got to tell the story about how it took 3 IBM techs and me
to boot OS/2.
Did you have to pay for there time though?
No, the sales rep took us all out to lunch at a nice restaurant
afterwards. Those were the days...
If Thom wants to join Fionet, then it's going to be a issue. It's best
to know of the issue before going further down the rabit hole.
vorlon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Back in that distant past it was also cheaper to get a decent meal for your $$.. Now adays it's like give your left arm. #-(
Thom Miller wrote to Vorlon <=-
(But I have to say, it's been fun poking back around in OS/2 land for
the last couple of days. Good memories there. A better DOS than DOS, indeed.)
If Thom wants to join Fionet, then it's going to be a issue. It's best
to know of the issue before going further down the rabit hole.
Thanks! I do appreciate knowing that there's an issue there. I'm
probably not going to join fidonet. I was looking for something nice, easy, and relatively low key and fsxnet seemed like (and seems like) a good fit. But if I change my mind about fido in the future, it's good
to have a heads up.
I'm (just for fun and because of the discussions around it) checking
out a second CF card install of OS/2 for the 386 so I can evaluate how
it handles things. If I do end up swapping operating systems, I might investigate a switch. Right now I'm just kind of letting the dust
settle before I go and make a bunch of other changes.
(But I have to say, it's been fun poking back around in OS/2 land for
the last couple of days. Good memories there. A better DOS than DOS, indeed.)
[...]Back in that distant past it was also cheaper to get a decent meal for
your $$.. Now adays it's like give your left arm. #-(
Around Silicon Valley/San Francisco, tech wages have definitely changed
Covid came. It seems the mom-n-pop restaurants and the restaurants that catered to locals and families were repaid with loyalty from customers getting takeout. Looking around, the ones that started going upscale before Covid have changed hands or folded.
The main thing to remember with fido, is that there are some *old*
grumpy dudes still floating around, so it's best to just avoid those
areas. Sadly they are in the sysop area's.
impatient to deal with that sort of nonsense anymore. The F, the S, and the X of FSXnet were pretty big selling points for me.
Yeah, the vibe I get from just checking out fido is that the gatekeeping that always seem to be baked into the network (going back to the early 90s) is still there.
I've gotten to the point where I'm too old and impatient to deal
with that sort of nonsense anymore. The F, the S, and the X of FSXnet were pretty big selling points for me.
I'm pondering on the S, trying to revisit soon the number of echos and perhaps change things up there a bit, as it's been sometime since a few echos were added and I've been time poor to revisit the
sometime folks can read more into a written reply than is intended
(always a possible pitfall) but the folks here mostly do a good job of
self moderation and keeping it helpful etc. Something I'm always very
What do you mean by gatekeeping?
I am simply an NC in fidonet but I try to make it as simple and
painless as possible for anyone looking to join in the area I look
after.
Vorlon wrote to Thom Miller <=-
That's what sysop's do. Go and make changes for the fun of it, or to
try things out. It's different today though, as back then we mostly
only had one PC (What ever brand/make/type), but today it's not
uncommong to have more than one. I can see six just without moving from
my desk right now (Only three are powerd up). %-&)
I'm a big fan of virtualization. I started off running VMWare
Workstation on my desktop, later moved to Proxmox running on a laptop.
On that I can spin up an operating system for old-time's sake and run
it in a window or full screen on my desktop, without the hassle
of more hardware (and trying to keep old hardware running, which
is getting increasingly difficult...)
What do you mean by gatekeeping?
I mean it in the traditional sense of technical gatekeeping. In my mind,
fido has always had a certain "read the policy file and if you can't figure it out, tough" attitude about it. This isn't from dealing with a particular person, it's just the 'impression' that fidonet.org leaves, IMO.
I am simply an NC in fidonet but I try to make it as simple and
painless as possible for anyone looking to join in the area I look
after.
That's awesome. I meant nothing personal directed towards anybody in particular, it's just the impression I've always sort of been left with
by fido, even in the 'old days'.
Heh. That's funny. I assumed the 'S' was in reference to how open you
guys are with information about how to join and how forthcoming you are with help. I didn't realize you meant the number of echoes. The limited number of echoes is one of the other things I appreciate about it, too, though.
IME that's always been an issue with text only communications. I think it's part of the reason why emoticons and later emojii were invented. I tend to go heavy on the emoticons, especially when I'm just being snarky or making a joke.
That's one of the great things about the hobby, IMO. There are all different approaches and interests. I very specifically did not want to run new software, or run old software on new hardware (in a VM or otherwise). I had a 386 that was sitting on a shelf not getting much use, and thought, "Man, it'd be cool to get that thing on-line and have it function like it did in the old days." I wanted to run old software on old hardware, and see if I could get it to talk to 'new' software. To me, the
In most cases I hear from people wanting to join by email today so we communicate by email initially and get the node and session and other passwords setup through email.
I wish there were more new nodes!
I'm a big fan of virtualization. I started off running VMWare
Workstation on my desktop, later moved to Proxmox running on a
laptop. On that I can spin up an operating system for old-time's
sake and run it in a window or full screen on my desktop, without
the hassle of more hardware (and trying to keep old hardware
running, which is getting increasingly difficult...)
That's one of the great things about the hobby, IMO. There are all different approaches and interests. I very specifically did not want
to run new software, or run old software on new hardware (in a VM or otherwise). I had a 386 that was sitting on a shelf not getting much
use, and thought, "Man, it'd be cool to get that thing on-line and
have it function like it did in the old days." I wanted to run old software on old hardware, and see if I could get it to talk to 'new' software. To me, the tinkering (both with the software and the
hardware) is a big part of the fun.
There's no right or wrong way. That's true of the 'retro computer'
scene in general, I think. If emulators, virtual machines, FPGA, or vintage hardware get you where you want to go, I think it's awesome,
even if your chosen method to get there isn't the one that I'd have
taken.
telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-
I get people applying via email that never get around to polling. At least with the /9999
approach, the prospective sysop had figured out how to get a nodelist and to configure his/her
mailer. The people who apply via /9999 always seem to stick with it.
big +1. i am a big fan of using old hardware in a modern world :)
The main thing to remember with fido, is that there are some *old*
grumpy dudes still floating around, so it's best to just avoid those
areas. Sadly they are in the sysop area's.
Yeah, the vibe I get from just checking out fido is that the
gatekeeping that always seem to be baked into the network (going back
to the early 90s) is still there. I've gotten to the point where I'm
too old and impatient to deal with that sort of nonsense anymore. The
That's what sysop's do. Go and make changes for the fun of it, or to [...]
from my desk right now (Only three are powerd up). %-&)
I'm a big fan of virtualization. I started off running VMWare
Workstation on my desktop, later moved to Proxmox running on a laptop.
On that I can spin up an operating system for old-time's sake and run
it in a window or full screen on my desktop, without the hassle of more hardware (and trying to keep old hardware running, which is getting increasingly difficult...)
In saying that I'm in fido, and act as the NC for southern Australia, but stay away from posting to the sysop echo's.
That's a great idea; I'd love to recreate my old environment, it's just
that multi-node would be a pain.
well to be fair I've never pondered the S overly deeply but yeah one
aspect was to try to keep the echo area numbers to a reasonably limited number. When I started the network it was just FSX_GEN ..
I'm a huge virtualization fan, but in a quick minute I'd put a Sun Sparcstation II and 19" CRT on my desk.
Thom Miller wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-
I have a SPARCStation 20 that's pretty heavily upgraded that I pull off the shelf and play with occasionally. It's ridiculously powerful
compared to the consumer-grade computers I have that are from the same era.
In saying that I'm in fido, and act as the NC for southern Australia,
but stay away from posting to the sysop echo's.
Or learn to ignore the BS that goes on. The BS is only alive because
people keep it alive. Once you understand the motiviation of some of the people there, that'll help you decide whether you engage with it.
big +1. i am a big fan of using old hardware in a modern world :)
Yeah. I'm a more than a few years past 50 and find that they should
know better. It's just not worth it. I'm posting more in FSXNet than
any other.
In saying that I'm in fido, and act as the NC for southern Australia,
but stay away from posting to the sysop echo's.
--- Zeus BBS 1.5 * Origin: -:-- Dragon's Lair --:-
dragon.vk3heg.net Prt: 6800 (21:1/195.5)
Are there any Fido echos worth getting in?
(But yeah, for me there is nothing like the real hardware.) (Until
it doesn't work right since it's over 40 years old) (Then, it's just profanity all night long).
I'm still in Fidonet, but to be honest, I'm not sure why. I was
recently doing a check of the "active" areas to add to my system
and I'm just not finding anything worthwhile.
Commodore Clifford wrote to Vorlon <=-
I'm still in Fidonet, but to be honest, I'm not sure why. I was
recently doing a check of the "active" areas to add to my system and
I'm just not finding anything worthwhile.
I've been trying to get COFFEE_KLATSCH going again. I think if everyone picked a "pet" echo and posted there we'd get some more activity. It's a downward spiral, many
sysops go to the STATS echo and only carry echoes
with traffic.
I'm still in Fidonet, but to be honest, I'm not sure why.
I was recently doing a check of the "active" areas to add
to my system and I'm just not finding anything worthwhile.
I am trying to get hooked up to fidonet and when I do I will pull down all echos I have access to and read and post to those that interest me.
Based on today's network bandwidth there isn't any reason why most systems shouldn't have the entire message feed.
File areas this might be a different matter as I do not know enough how file distribution is done over ftn.
Tom
I've been trying to get COFFEE_KLATSCH going again. I think if
everyone picked a "pet" echo and posted there we'd get some more
activity. It's a downward spiral, many sysops go to the STATS echo
and only carry echoes with traffic.
I am trying to get hooked up to fidonet and when I do I will pull
down all echos I have access to and read and post to those that
interest me. Based on today's network bandwidth there isn't any
reason why most systems shouldn't have the entire message feed. File
areas this might be a different matter as I do not know enough how
file distribution is done over ftn.
Tom
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: 1>:135/9999 (21:2/153)
File areas this might be a different matter as I do not know enough how file distribution is
done over ftn.
Files are done by doing a 'filefix' instead of the areafix command. The command %help
will give you all of the info you need.
I carry all the echomail and file groups for all fidonet groups that my
hub and backup provide. I'm always happy to add other groups that they
don't have at a user's request. I also carry all groups and file areas
for all the other networks I'm linked to. Over the 5 or so years the
total space used is 12gb. 2.6gb of messages and 9.1gb of files.
of the file areas, 5.2G is fido and 3.2G is fsx. 3.7g is in Fido is the
Nasa Picture of the Day.
file distribution isFile areas this might be a different matter as I do not know enough how
done over ftn.
Files are done by doing a 'filefix' instead of the areafix command. Thecommand %help
will give you all of the info you need.
What address would I send these commands too?
Khronos wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I am trying to get hooked up to fidonet and when I do I will pull down
all echos I have access to and read and post to those that interest me.
Based on today's network bandwidth there isn't any reason why most
systems shouldn't have the entire message feed. File areas this might
be a different matter as I do not know enough how file distribution is done over ftn.
Ogg wrote to Commodore Clifford <=-
There is a fido echo for almost every interest out there. Pick
the ones whose topic appeals to you and POST something.
Or.. simply start a topic in any of the general chat echos:
anything_goes
asian_link
coffee_klatsch
chat
Yeah. I'm a more than a few years past 50 and find that they should
know better. It's just not worth it. I'm posting more in FSXNet than
any other. In saying that I'm in fido, and act as the NC for southern
Australia, but stay away from posting to the sysop echo's.
I'm still in Fidonet, but to be honest, I'm not sure why. I was
recently doing a check of the "active" areas to add to my system and
Are there any Fido echos worth getting in?
There's no active atari area's but there are others. Find one that's of intrest and start posting to it. Unfortunally there are many dead area's. IT's not like the old days when a echo had many hundred messages a
day....
On 19 Apr 2023, Commodore Clifford said the following...
Are there any Fido echos worth getting in?
About the only worthwhile one for me is the MYSTIC echo where g00r00
hangs out.
Jay
... What do you use to cut a Roman Emperor's hair? Ceasers
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/03/14 (Linux/64) * Origin: Northern
Realms (21:3/110)
(But yeah, for me there is nothing like the real hardware.) (Until
it doesn't work right since it's over 40 years old) (Then, it's
just profanity all night long).
Isn't "profanity all night long" the fun part of this hobby? :D
--- * Origin: WalledCTTY (21:2/145)
I'm still in Fidonet, but to be honest, I'm not sure why. I was recently doing a check of the "active" areas to add to my system
and I'm just not finding anything worthwhile.
That's the other reason I really haven't bothered to really
investigate setting it up.
--- * Origin: WalledCTTY (21:2/145)
Commodore Clifford wrote to Vorlon <=-
I'm still in Fidonet, but to be honest, I'm not sure why. I was recently doing a check of the "active" areas to add to my system
and I'm just not finding anything worthwhile.
I've been trying to get COFFEE_KLATSCH going again. I think if
everyone picked a "pet" echo and posted there we'd get some more
activity. It's a downward spiral, many sysops go to the STATS echo
and only carry echoes with traffic.
... Do the last thing first --- MultiMail/Win v0.52 * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
Hello Commodore Clifford!
I'm still in Fidonet, but to be honest, I'm not sure why. I was recently doing a check of the "active" areas to add to my system
and I'm just not finding anything worthwhile.
What are you looking for the echo areas do for you? Are you a
passive reader? Where is the "content" supposed to come?
There is a fido echo for almost every interest out there. Pick the
ones whose topic appeals to you and POST something.
Or.. simply start a topic in any of the general chat echos:
anything_goes asian_link coffee_klatsch chat
From there, other specific echos could be recommended.
--- OpenXP 5.0.57 * Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)
There's no active atari area's but there are others. Find one that's of
intrest and start posting to it. Unfortunally there are many dead
area's. IT's not like the old days when a echo had many hundred messages
a day....
I just subscribed to 490ish that my hub carries, probably two thirds have 0 traffic. By the time you take away the echo's that are just robot posts there probably are only a handful that have actual human traffic.
I've been trying to get COFFEE_KLATSCH going again. I think if
everyone picked a "pet" echo and posted there we'd get some more
activity. It's a downward spiral, many sysops go to the STATS echo
and only carry echoes with traffic.
Yeah, I did the same... and found that mostly that the "traffic" is the monthly posting of the rules.
Not my job to resurrect Fidonet.
If they can't even keep things as active as FSXNet... I'm
good with disconnecting and letting it die.
I just subscribed to 490ish that my hub carries, probably two thirds
have 0 traffic. By the time you take away the echo's that are just
robot posts there probably are only a handful that have actual human traffic.
If it's because you just burned your hand on the soldering iron for the
5th time tonight and the damn thing still isn't working right... not so much.
If the intent is to provide access to echos to your visitors, then
what's the harm in making as many echos as possible availble?
Commodore Clifford wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Yeah, I did the same... and found that mostly that the "traffic" is the monthly posting of the rules.
Commodore Clifford wrote to Ogg <=-
Not my job to resurrect Fidonet.
If they can't even keep things as active as FSXNet... I'm good with disconnecting and letting it die.
Ogg wrote to Michael Borthwick <=-
Another thing to do is rally folks to join you in the echos
that you would like to participate in. Start building a
following.
Vorlon wrote to Commodore Clifford <=-
There's no active atari area's but there are others. Find one that's of intrest and start posting to it. Unfortunally there are many dead
area's. IT's not like the old days when a echo had many hundred
messages a day....
Today, when there are 300 boards with 3000 callers, it just doesn't
work. (I just made those numbers up, but I'd be surprised if the scale is that far off.)
I'm a big advocate of less echoes with more conversation.
I think it makes for a much healthier system.
I'd say today is more like 300 BBSes with 200 callers. It
mostly seems like a thing were people set stuff up and tweak
it for the fun of it, but there's not a particularly active
caller scene.
Not my job to resurrect Fidonet.
If they can't even keep things as active as FSXNet... I'm good with disconnecting and letting it die.
I always wanted BBS software that would auto-create areas based on traffic, and auto-delete them after 6 months without messages - that way any echoes that started picking up traffic would automagically show up, and go away when they tapered off.
Today, when there are 300 boards with 3000 callers, it just doesn't
work. (I just made those numbers up, but I'd be surprised if the scale is
area's. IT's not like the old days when a echo had many hundred
messages a day....
I just subscribed to 490ish that my hub carries, probably two thirds
have 0 traffic. By the time you take away the echo's that are just
robot posts there probably are only a handful that have actual human traffic.
IT's not like the old days when a echo had many hundred
messages a day....
I've suggested consolidation of echoes, but never gotten any traction.
Instead of dead Commodore and Atari echoes, make an 8-bit echo. We used
to have ARGUS, RADIUS and TAURUS echoes - all FTN mailers based on the same code-base, and consolidated everything to ARGUS now.
I always wanted BBS software that would auto-create areas based on traffic, and auto-delete them after 6 months without messages - that way any echoes that started picking up traffic would automagically show up, and go away when they tapered off.
The FIDONEWS echo used to be a place to discuss articles posted on FidoNews, but now it's turned into yet another bickerground. FIDONEWS
[...]Not my job to resurrect Fidonet. If they can't even keep things as
active as FSXNet... I'm good with disconnecting and letting it die.
But I seriously doubt it could ever die, not in my lifetime, many Sysops
in Russia and eastern Europe take Fido very seriously.
... It's just as bad in the BBS add's area's.. Posting the same
add every day or two is just overdoing it.
If the intent is to provide access to echos to your visitors, then
what's the harm in making as many echos as possible availble?
I posted about this already, but to reiterate: the harm is decision fatigue for your users, and the fact that lots of echos only make sense when there are lots of users.
The FIDONEWS echo used to be a place to discuss articles
posted on FidoNews, but now it's turned into yet another
bickerground. FIDONEWS would be a good place to write and
article rallying support for resurrecting an echo.
It might be interesting to see a moderator chime in,
wanting to have his say in how people resurrect "his"
echo.
I posted about this already, but to reiterate: the harm is decision
fatigue for your users, and the fact that lots of echos only make
sense when there are lots of users.
"decision fatigue"? that's silly. If someone is interested in
a specific topic, they can find it.
I've suggested consolidation of echoes, but never gotten any traction.
Instead of dead Commodore and Atari echoes, make an 8-bit echo. We used
to have ARGUS, RADIUS and TAURUS echoes - all FTN mailers based on the
same code-base, and consolidated everything to ARGUS now.
"decision fatigue"? that's silly. If someone is interested in a
specific topic, they can find it.
Decision fatigue might be another term for the "paradox of choice".
It's a thing.
It dosn't help that the Editor/Modertaor of that area is a total d*ck, and likes to heap sh*t on other zones. Also that there are *no* news item's posted. I thought that the job of the editor was to find things to put
I mean...there's nothing really silly about it. It's a pretty well known psychological issue, and one that certainly has ramifications in software and systems design. Someone might be 'interested' in a specific topic,
but not interested enough to sift through 100 *other* topics to find the one they're interested in.
Ogg wrote to Thom Miller <=-
Hello Thom Miller!
If the intent is to provide access to echos to your visitors, then
what's the harm in making as many echos as possible availble?
I posted about this already, but to reiterate: the harm is decision fatigue for your users, and the fact that lots of echos only make sense when there are lots of users.
"decision fatigue"? that's silly. If someone is interested in
a specific topic, they can find it.
But I seriously doubt it could ever die, not in my lifetime, many Sysops
in Russia and eastern Europe take Fido very seriously.
They have no other way to get past state censorship! @-(
If you mean the Fido echo moderators, yes I would agree. Onehuge
problem isnonsense.
the many echoes devoid of any content beyond robot-rule
I wish the backbone could be purned.
Backbones refuse to carry it?
... It's just as bad in the BBS add's area's.. Posting the same add
every day or two is just overdoing it.
Are you refering to ECHO_ADS? I don't see the same echo info posted "every day or two" at all. At most, a couple of them are a week apart.
Others are two weeks apart.
It dosn't help that the Editor/Modertaor of that area is a total d*ck,
and likes to heap sh*t on other zones. Also that there are *no* news
item's posted. I thought that the job of the editor was to find things
to put
Hey, I posted an article last week!
But I seriously doubt it could ever die, not in my lifetime, many
Sysops in Russia and eastern Europe take Fido very seriously.
They have no other way to get past state censorship! @-(
I heard that much is true. Some noise was made in Fido not long ago
about increasing the security/encryption of the BinkD system...
Its interesting though that that the worst-case scenario for the network is A> moving mail via "sneaker net".
Problem is its impossible to really nuke an echo...
Backbones refuse to carry it?
Are you refering to ECHO_ADS? I don't see the same echo info posted
"every day or two" at all. At most, a couple of them are a week apart.
Others are two weeks apart.
I see the same add in multiple echo's multiple times a week.
Vorlon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Hey, I posted an article last week!
You did.... I wasn't taking any noticed due to the noise level being a
9 by 9...
What was it about?
Atreyu wrote to Vorlon <=-
I heard that much is true. Some noise was made in Fido not long ago
about increasing the security/encryption of the BinkD system... Its interesting though that that the worst-case scenario for the network is moving mail via "sneaker net".
I'm all for security, but back-hauling security onto open protocols like bink and telnet seem pointless unless you're going to deprecate the insecure protocols.
Others are two weeks apart.
I see the same add in multiple echo's multiple times a week.
Ah.. you mean ads in the echos themselves. Got it. I guess I don't
view the same fidonet echos that you do. Why not pipe up to the poster and suggest fewer ads?
I'm all for security, but back-hauling security onto open protocols like bink and telnet seem pointless unless you're going to deprecate the insecure protocols.
fusion wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
On 24 Apr 2023, poindexter FORTRAN said the following...
I'm all for security, but back-hauling security onto open protocols like bink and telnet seem pointless unless you're going to deprecate the insecure protocols.
this stuff is just for fun. if you start giving the boot to people who can't (or won't) run the secure stuff, that's not fun.
*shrug*
Hello Commodore Clifford!
I've been trying to get COFFEE_KLATSCH going again. I think if everyone picked a "pet" echo and posted there we'd get some
more activity. It's a downward spiral, many sysops go to the
STATS echo and only carry echoes with traffic.
Yeah, I did the same... and found that mostly that the "traffic"
is the monthly posting of the rules.
OK.. but why can't that echo contain a posting from YOU? ;)
--- OpenXP 5.0.57 * Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)
I just subscribed to 490ish that my hub carries, probably two
thirds have 0 traffic. By the time you take away the echo's that
are just robot posts there probably are only a handful that have
actual human traffic.
This is why I think it's a mistake for a network to have so many
feeds, and for a bbs to carry so many feeds. I get that, from the perspective of the sysop, you feel like you're providing your
potential users with a variety of choices. What you're really
providing them is a ghost town, a sense of 'nobody uses this'. You're
also providing a nice dose of decision fatigue for anyone who decides
they *might* want to use it. "I just want to post a message and see
how this works, but there are like...100 different places to post.
Which one should I use?"
. In the old days, when there were 3000 boards with 300,000 callers,
it made sense to spread the conversation out and keep echos more
focused. Today, when there are 300 boards with 3000 callers, it just doesn't work. (I just made those numbers up, but I'd be surprised if
the scale is that far off.) I'm a big advocate of less echoes with
more conversation. I think it makes for a much healthier system.
--- * Origin: WalledCTTY (21:2/145)
If it's because you just burned your hand on the soldering iron
for the 5th time tonight and the damn thing still isn't working
right... not so much.
I just spent the better part of three days wrestling with OS/2 on a
386 that was just *full* of intermittent, seemingly random errors.
Turns out one of the cache chips was bad, but it took me far longer
than I'd like to admit to figure it out. I was like, "I have *no*
memory of OS/2 being this unstable." Now that I've got it up and
running without issues, though, I'm very pleased. It was worth the
effort.
--- * Origin: WalledCTTY (21:2/145)
If the intent is to provide access to echos to your visitors,
then what's the harm in making as many echos as possible
availble?
I posted about this already, but to reiterate: the harm is decision
fatigue for your users, and the fact that lots of echos only make
sense when there are lots of users.
--- * Origin: WalledCTTY (21:2/145)
Commodore Clifford wrote to Ogg <=-
Not my job to resurrect Fidonet.
If they can't even keep things as active as FSXNet... I'm good
with disconnecting and letting it die.
I've been in Fidonet since 1991. I got a lot out of Fido over the
years, especially in the 1990s. Managing a region and moving mail is
just my way of paying it back. I find parts of it as annoying as most
other people, but just try to ignore the people who are re-arranging
deck chairs on the Titanic, so to speak.
... YORGAMAK HAS ARRIVED AND WILL INITIATE DESTRUCTIMATION. --- MultiMail/Win v0.52 * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is
power. (21:4/122)
Vorlon wrote to Commodore Clifford <=-
There's no active atari area's but there are others. Find one
that's of intrest and start posting to it. Unfortunally there
are many dead area's. IT's not like the old days when a echo had
many hundred messages a day....
I've suggested consolidation of echoes, but never gotten any
traction. Instead of dead Commodore and Atari echoes, make an 8-bit
echo. We used to have ARGUS, RADIUS and TAURUS echoes - all FTN
mailers based on the same code-base, and consolidated everything to
ARGUS now.
Less echoes with more traffic is better.
On 20 Apr 23 21:38:50, Commodore Clifford said the following to Ogg:
Not my job to resurrect Fidonet.
If they can't even keep things as active as FSXNet... I'm good
with disconnecting and letting it die.
If you mean the Fido echo moderators, yes I would agree. One huge
problem is the many echoes devoid of any content beyond robot-rule nonsense.
But I seriously doubt it could ever die, not in my lifetime, many
Sysops in Russia and eastern Europe take Fido very seriously.
Atreyu
--- Renegade vY2Ka2 * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about
gladiators? (21:1/176)
Hello Thom Miller!
If the intent is to provide access to echos to your visitors,
then what's the harm in making as many echos as possible
availble?
I posted about this already, but to reiterate: the harm is
decision fatigue for your users, and the fact that lots of echos
only make sense when there are lots of users.
"decision fatigue"? that's silly. If someone is interested in a specific topic, they can find it.
--- OpenXP 5.0.57 * Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)
Hello pF!
The FIDONEWS echo used to be a place to discuss articles posted
on FidoNews, but now it's turned into yet another bickerground. FIDONEWS would be a good place to write and article rallying
support for resurrecting an echo.
I always had the impression that a moderator acted as a kind of
editor, finding news to report to stir conversation. FIDONEWS was nurtured like that in the past, but not since BF took over. Now the newsletter itself is just an automated bot output of stuff with
nothing fresh to read. And the echo diverges from the topic of the newletter contents very fast.
As for "write an article rallying support for resurrecting an echo" ..that's what I thought ECHO_ADS was for. :/
It might be interesting to see a moderator chime in, wanting to
have his say in how people resurrect "his" echo.
Not sure what you mean. For resurrection and support, I meant for
people to speak up in ANY echo and mention other echos where people
could go to continue a specific topic of discussion.
--- OpenXP 5.0.57 * Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)
"decision fatigue"? that's silly. If someone is interested in
a specific topic, they can find it.
I mean...there's nothing really silly about it. It's a pretty well
known psychological issue, and one that certainly has ramifications
in software and systems design. Someone might be 'interested' in a
specific topic, but not interested enough to sift through 100 *other* topics to find the one they're interested in.
--- * Origin: WalledCTTY (21:2/145)
On 24 Apr 2023, poindexter FORTRAN said the following...
I'm all for security, but back-hauling security onto open
protocols like bink and telnet seem pointless unless you're
going to deprecate the insecure protocols.
this stuff is just for fun. if you start giving the boot to people
who can't (or won't) run the secure stuff, that's not fun.
*shrug*
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32) * Origin: cold
fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)
"Is anyone here? Is this echo dead?" - no responses.
Then you leave, and you don't go back.
Ogg... the "They" I was referring to are the echo
moderators. If they can't promote and drive conversation
to one echo why are you insisting that I should be the one
to do it for them? I have my own things I'm responsible
for. I don't feel sorry or bad about it.
And why not have hundreds of empty echo areas and
newsgroups? This is why. I don't want my users seeing
tons of empty nothing. On top of that, I run on actual
vintage Atari hardware (and have no intention of changing
that). Having hundreds of useless echos bogs the system
down.
But I seriously doubt it could ever die, not in my lifetime, many
Sysops in Russia and eastern Europe take Fido very seriously.
To which Commodore Clifford replies...
Too bad we can't combine the zones by having a translator gateway.
Commodore Clifford wrote to Ogg <=-
Because if the moderator isn't interested in trying to drum up some activity for their echo, I'm not interested either.
Commodore Clifford wrote to Thom Miller <=-
This is actually the #1 reason I don't call "Modern" PC based BBS's. Graffiti ANSI screens that go on forever and the struggle to find an actual active conversation.
Commodore Clifford wrote to Atreyu <=-
Too bad we can't combine the zones by having a translator gateway.
But these systems are too "retro" for some of these nets. I'm only here because I finally decided to break down and do a BinkD mailer on a linux box.
These users could be a benefit if they could connect with their old mailers... but even finding a successful telnet feed is nearly impossible anymore.
On 25 Apr 23 20:45:44, Commodore Clifford said the following to
Atreyu:
But I seriously doubt it could ever die, not in my lifetime, many Sysops in Russia and eastern Europe take Fido very seriously.
To which Commodore Clifford replies...
Too bad we can't combine the zones by having a translator gateway.
Technically there is no reason today for requiring Zones or Regions,
even Nets could all be merged into one.................. technically.
I do agree with your other thread about dead Othernets. I hated
joining a net with all kinds of areas to find a total wasteland. Or worse... robot-rules. In the days of polling mail long-distance, if a
Net was not cutting it, it was very quickly dropped from my system.
One that I find somewhat amusing lately is Spooknet. The guy running
it really puts an effort, even if it comes across as a little bit batshit-crazy.
Atreyu
--- Renegade vY2Ka2 * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about
gladiators? (21:1/176)
Commodore Clifford wrote to Thom Miller <=-
This is actually the #1 reason I don't call "Modern" PC based
BBS's. Graffiti ANSI screens that go on forever and the struggle
to find an actual active conversation.
I had *7* ANSI screens on my BBS, reduced them down to a single
screen chosen at random. It was a nice exercise to write a
randomizer, after years of not coding.
(I was a computer science major in college, but I got better...)
... Walk without rhythm and you won't attact the worm. ---
MultiMail/Win v0.52 * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is
power. (21:4/122)
Re: Re: Housekeeping
By: Commodore Clifford to fusion on Tue Apr 25 2023 09:02 pm
But these systems are too "retro" for some of these nets. I'm only
here because I finally decided to break down and do a BinkD mailer
on a linux box.
These users could be a benefit if they could connect with their old
mailers... but even finding a successful telnet feed is nearly
impossible anymore.
Binkp is not the only used mail transfer mechanism. If you want to do
EMSI, I should be able to help with that.
telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-
These users could be a benefit if they could connect with their old
mailers... but even finding a successful telnet feed is nearly
impossible anymore.
Binkp is not the only used mail transfer mechanism. If you want to do
EMSI, I should be able to help with that.
Vorlon wrote to deon <=-
That was one reason why I used to run MBSE, as it supported those... In the end 99.99% of connections came from binkp... The other was people
just testing. I gave up mbse due to some other bugs/fetures not being there.
That was one reason why I used to run MBSE, as it supported those...
In the end 99.99% of connections came from binkp... The other was
people just testing. I gave up mbse due to some other bugs/fetures not
being there.
I keep my old licensed copy of internet Rex around for just such an occasion, as it'll do transx and I used to have a downlink who used it.
RADIUS (and Argus/Taurus) supported ifcico and telnet, but I don't
think anyone ever connected with those in the years I ran it.
If you're just
keeping a dead echo alive, that doesn't do service to the net. To the contrary, a network full of dead echoes doesn't encourage a new caller
to stick around, whereas a smaller number of echoes with message traffic will retain callers.
Hi Poindexter,
On Friday April 21 2023, Poindexter Fortran said to Ogg:
The FIDONEWS echo used to be a place to discuss articles posted on
FidoNews, but now it's turned into yet another bickerground.
FIDONEWS
It dosn't help that the Editor/Modertaor of that area is a total d*ck, and likes to heap sh*t on other zones. Also that there are *no* news item's posted. I thought that the job of the editor was to find things to put
into a newsletter, and not just place the same old boiler plate/content each week.
Re: Re: Housekeeping By: Commodore Clifford to fusion on Tue Apr
25 2023 09:02 pm
But these systems are too "retro" for some of these nets. I'm
only here because I finally decided to break down and do a BinkD
mailer on a linux box.
These users could be a benefit if they could connect with their
old mailers... but even finding a successful telnet feed is nearly impossible anymore.
Binkp is not the only used mail transfer mechanism. If you want to do
EMSI, I should be able to help with that.
...δεσ∩ --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux * Origin: I'm playing with
ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)
Hi deon,
On Thursday April 27 2023, Deon said to Commodore Clifford:
These users could be a benefit if they could connect with their
old mailers... but even finding a successful telnet feed is
nearly impossible anymore.
Binkp is not the only used mail transfer mechanism. If you want
to do EMSI, I should be able to help with that.
That was one reason why I used to run MBSE, as it supported those...
In the end 99.99% of connections came from binkp... The other was
people just testing. I gave up mbse due to some other bugs/fetures
not being there.
\/orlon aka Stephen
Rocking FSXnet with an Amiga 4000 and Zeus BBS.
--- Zeus BBS 1.5 * Origin: -:-- Dragon's Lair --:- dragon.vk3heg.net
Prt: 6800 (21:1/195.5)
Vorlon wrote to deon <=-
That was one reason why I used to run MBSE, as it supported
those... In the end 99.99% of connections came from binkp... The
other was people just testing. I gave up mbse due to some other bugs/fetures not being there.
I keep my old licensed copy of internet Rex around for just such an occasion, as it'll do transx and I used to have a downlink who used
it.
RADIUS (and Argus/Taurus) supported ifcico and telnet, but I don't
think anyone ever connected with those in the years I ran it.
... Only one element of each kind --- MultiMail/Win v0.52 * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
Vorlon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
One of my uplinks was running Argus for a long time, before switching
to binkp... It wasn't as bad as rex in receiving or making connections though...
Oli wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I think "dead" or low-traffic echos are mostly a usability / user interface problem. A low-traffic echos does no harm by itself, but I
agree that a long list of useless echo is not encouraging for the user.
Binkp is not the only used mail transfer mechanism. If you want to do EMSI, I should be able to help with that.
I thought we tried that extensively without success. :(
If Björn is a total dick, how would you call the people who reply with
"Go fuck yourself you swedish meatball" or an ASCII art of 🖕 (middle finger)?
99.99% of connections came from binkp... The other was people just
testing. I gave up mbse due to some other bugs/fetures not being
there.
I was actually going to set up an MBSE to try to become a hub for some
of the other retro systems out there... guess I shouldn't put the time into that.
One of my uplinks was running Argus for a long time, before switching
to binkp... It wasn't as bad as rex in receiving or making connections
though...
Radius wasn't bad, I switched when I was considering a move to Linux. I
do miss the GUI, though - as a hub it's nice to see who stopped
polling.
I think "dead" or low-traffic echos are mostly a
usability / user interface problem. A low-traffic echos
does no harm by itself, but I agree that a long list of
useless echo is not encouraging for the user.
My point entirely is that new people come on, can't find
any echoes with traffic and move on.
Re: Re: Housekeeping By: Commodore Clifford to deon on Sat Apr 29
2023 02:45 am
Binkp is not the only used mail transfer mechanism. If you
want to do EMSI, I should be able to help with that.
I thought we tried that extensively without success. :(
We did?
Spectre uses EMSI quite successfuly - and I use it to my Portal of Power/Ezycom BBS as well. Both are EMSI/ZModem, not tried EMSI/Hydra.
One of the tricks with EMSI is whether the mailer is aware of telnet
or not (or the fossil), since a "telnet" session needs to be handled correctly so that telnet IACs codes are not absorbed by the telnet
session. (Only becomes an issue when transferring files.)
For that I have qico and ifcico running - qico does the EMSI/telnet
and ifcico does the EMSI/TCP. Clrghouz only does EMSI/TCP as well.
If you wanted to have another go, we could debug it and figure out
why it isnt working. It is unreliable though when using ZModem, since ZModem assumes and sync speed which is often not the case.
...δεσ∩ --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux * Origin: I'm playing with
ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)
Hello Oli,
On Saturday April 29 2023, Oli said to Vorlon:
If Björn is a total dick, how would you call the people who
reply with "Go fuck yourself you swedish meatball" or an ASCII
art of 🖕 (middle finger)?
People have gottent so sick of his bull***t and jab at other
countries.
\/orlon aka Stephen
Rocking FSXnet with an Amiga 4000 and Zeus BBS.
--- Zeus BBS 1.5 * Origin: -:-- Dragon's Lair --:- dragon.vk3heg.net
Prt: 6800 (21:1/195.5)
If Björn is a total dick, how would you call the people whoPeople have gottent so sick of his bull***t and jab at other countries.
reply with "Go fuck yourself you swedish meatball" or an ASCII
art of 🖕 (middle finger)?
Actually that's part of why I disconnected the FN SysOp echo long long ago.
Ok... so maybe I'll still look at MBSE. I wasn't intending for it to really be an active BBS... like you said, just a hub system.
| Sysop: | Eric Oulashin |
|---|---|
| Location: | Beaverton, Oregon, USA |
| Users: | 101 |
| Nodes: | 16 (0 / 16) |
| Uptime: | 02:39:26 |
| Calls: | 3,427 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 8,461 |
| Messages: | 336,554 |