It seems they are expensive as heck, but I try to buy like 2 a month at best. This month I bought Rush's Clockwork Angels and ABC's Lexicon of Love 40th anniversary remaster.

Although I bought Clockwork Angels as a digital download, I felt buying the vinyl record would be a good idea.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: -=[conchaos.synchro.net | ConstructiveChaos BBS]=- (21:4/141)

On 04 Sep 2023, Utopian Galt said the following...

It seems they are expensive as heck, but I try to buy like 2 a month at best. This month I bought Rush's Clockwork Angels and ABC's Lexicon of Love 40th anniversary remaster.

Although I bought Clockwork Angels as a digital download, I felt buying the vinyl record would be a good idea.

I have probably about 50-75 in my collection from the 70's.. Before dirt was invented, as a teen, I tried to collect all of the Beatles Albums. I got about half of them before I found other music to collect and moved on to 8-tracks, then Cassettes.. I do have an original Beatles Hard Days Night album from 1965, and an Original I want to hold your hand 45 from 1964. Both not in pristine condition but play nicely. I no longer have a turntable but I am going to pick up a Digital one soon..

Al

... DOS=HIGH? I knew it was on something...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Wrong Number Family Of BBS' - Wrong Number ][ (21:4/131)

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 17:10:57 -0400
"Utopian Galt" (21:4/141) <Utopian.Galt@f141.n4.z21.fidonet> wrote:

It seems they are expensive as heck, but I try to buy like 2 a month
at best. This month I bought Rush's Clockwork Angels and ABC's
Lexicon of Love 40th anniversary remaster.

Although I bought Clockwork Angels as a digital download, I felt
buying the vinyl record would be a good idea. --- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: -=[conchaos.synchro.net | ConstructiveChaos BBS]=-
(21:4/141)

I spent about $70 on used vinyl a few weeks ago. New vinyl prices are
stupid.
--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (21:2/101)

On 08 Sep 2023, Nigel Reed said the following...

I spent about $70 on used vinyl a few weeks ago. New vinyl prices are stupid.

get yourself a copy of Traktor Pro 3, an audio interface and some timecoded vinyl.. then you can pretend to play records all day long and nobody will be the wiser ;)

https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000509157-TRAKTOR-P RO-3-Timecode-Setup-Guide

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

Hello Nigel Reed!

** On Friday 08.09.23 - 20:53, Nigel Reed wrote to Utopian Galt:

I spent about $70 on used vinyl a few weeks ago. New vinyl
prices are stupid.

Isn't still a fact that there are only 2 lacquer/mastering
plants in the world? I seem to recall that there was a fire at
one plant some time ago and that cut down the plants from then
3 to 2.


A few other things I wasn't aware of and/or took for granted..

[1] A vinyl record cannot reproduce as broad a frequency range
as a digital recording. Too much high end, low end or volume
can cause distortion and make the needle skip.

[2] With less groove length per second of music (the closer the
needle gets to the center), the resolution gets diminished.
Sonically, this is equivalent to reducing the sampling rate of
a digital recording from 96 kHz to 22.05 kHz - a huge
difference in fidelity. That has ramifications for the artist
and producer, who have to choose a song order carefully,
knowing that the ones on the inner parts of the disc won't
sound quite as clear and crisp.

[3] Vinyl records have considerably less dynamic range than
digital recordings. If the mastering engineer tries to make the
record too loud, it will just sound distorted. What's more,
large dynamic swings can cause the needle to jump when the
record is played on a consumer's turntable. In addition, the
higher the amplitude, the wider the grooves need to be. Wider
grooves mean less playing time per side, which also impacts the
mastering engineer's level decisions.

[4] In the lacquer/master cutting stage, because the cutting is
done in real time (that is, as the music is playing), one of
the tasks of the cutting engineer is to manually create the
spaces between songs. This is accomplished by scrolling the
stylus very slightly toward the center of the record to create
a gap.

[5] Regarding the stamper for actually creating the vinyl
discs, one stamper is required for every thousand records.
After that, the stamper starts to wear out, and the audio
quality begins to degrade. Technicians can make additional
copies of the stamper by electroplating and splitting the
mother disc.


--- OpenXP 5.0.57
* Origin: What do you call a musician with problems? A trebled man. (21:4/106.21)

Re: Re: Vinyl records
By: Nigel Reed to Utopian Galt on Fri Sep 08 2023 08:53 pm

I spent about $70 on used vinyl a few weeks ago. New vinyl prices are stupid.

Unfortunately, it'll probably go up.

candycane

===
user is generated from /dev/urandom

...The wheel that squeaks the loudest is the one that gets the grease.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: -=[conchaos.synchro.net | ConstructiveChaos BBS]=- (21:4/141)

Re: Vinyl records
By: Ogg to Nigel Reed on Sat Sep 09 2023 09:01 am

A few other things I wasn't aware of and/or took for granted..

[1] A vinyl record cannot reproduce as broad a frequency range as a digital recording. Too much high end, low end or volume can cause

[2] With less groove length per second of music (the closer the needle gets to the center), the resolution gets diminished. Sonically, this is equivalent to reducing the sampling rate of a digital recording from 96 kHz to 22.05 kHz - a huge difference in fidelity. That has ramifications

[3] Vinyl records have considerably less dynamic range than digital recordings. If the mastering engineer tries to make the record too loud,

These are a few reasons why I'm not really interested in collecting vinyl records. I hadn't realized point 2 until not long ago, but it makes sense. I think if a record was played faster as the needle moves toward the center, it would be able to still reproduce the same frequencies throughout the record, but that's not the case, as records have always had a constant RPM. In that regard, I think the old wax cylinders that predated vinyl records might have the advantage.

Nightfox

Hello Nightfox!

** On Saturday 09.09.23 - 15:52, Nightfox wrote to Ogg:

I think if a record was played faster as the needle moves
toward the center, it would be able to still reproduce the
same frequencies throughout the record, but that's not the
case, as records have always had a constant RPM. In that
regard, I think the old wax cylinders that predated vinyl
records might have the advantage.

I remember having some 7" records (singles), mostly club mixes,
that were supposed to be played at 45RPM. They sounded
fantastic compared to LPs.

Just based on https://www.funkymooserecords.ca/ ..the average
price for new vinyl is $30 each. Too much. But maybe the
number of copies per new release are limited to just to a few
thousand before they have to create a new stamper. A new
stamper is required for every 1000 pressings. The cost of
nickle-plate and/or silver-plate is probably higher now than
back in the 60s-80s too.

I'd love to own a direct-drive turntable, and a new cartridge/
needle set though, and revisit some of my vinyl collection.

Which reminds me.. another limitation with the vinyl experience
is the cartridge/needle maintenance. For best audio
performance, the needle should be replaced after about 200 to
250 hrs of play. A worn out needle can damage a fine recording
too. I don't know anyone who has followed a such a procedure.
We've just fool ourselves that the sound is always the same -
even though the record deteriorates after multiple plays.

I dunno, considering the cost of new vinyl at $30+, a quality
player and a fresh needle would be paramount - albiet more
expense. I'm really finding it hard to understand how the
market can bear $30+ records.

--- OpenXP 5.0.57
* Origin: What do you call a musician with problems? A trebled man. (21:4/106.21)

On 09 Sep 2023, Ogg said the following...

[1] A vinyl record cannot reproduce as broad a frequency range
as a digital recording. Too much high end, low end or volume
can cause distortion and make the needle skip.

i always thought this was funny.. vinyl aficionados have also tried to tell me that the sound quality is somehow better than the tape recording from which they were created.

to each their own i guess.. for older stuff i think i would buy a mint copy of the record, record it, and sell it along. depending on how digital remasters sound if they're available.. just because they CAN make something better doesn't mean they succeed at it ;)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

i always thought this was funny.. vinyl aficionados have also tried to tell me that the sound quality is somehow better than the tape recording from which they were created.

I'm a vinyl fan but I also don't believe the hype. I just like vintage style technology. I buy vinyl for the same reason I buy old video game consoles, in spite of the fact that I'd have a simpler way to play the games nowadays in emulation.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

Re: Re: Vinyl records
By: fusion to Ogg on Sun Sep 10 2023 09:03 am

i always thought this was funny.. vinyl aficionados have also tried to tell me that the sound quality is somehow better than the tape recording from which they were created.

Yeah, the source makes a difference. And when digital recording and mastering started to become available in he 80s, some bands started to go that route, and I imagine there are people who would say the vinyl record version sounds better than the CD when the album was recorded and/or mastered digitally. I remember reading Dire Straits' "Brothers In Arms" was one that was recorded digitally, and I've heard people try to say the vinyl version sounds best.. I'm not sure I see how that's possible.

to each their own i guess.. for older stuff i think i would buy a mint copy of the record, record it, and sell it along. depending on how digital

If I recorded something to a different format, I'd usually keep the original, to say I still have a legal copy of it.

remasters sound if they're available.. just because they CAN make something better doesn't mean they succeed at it ;)

I feel like CD versions of albums usually sound pretty good. And there are some I can tell came from a master tape - Dire Straits' first album is one such CD where I can tell there is a noticeable hiss during quiet parts of the music.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Vinyl records
By: Nightfox to fusion on Sun Sep 10 2023 05:08 pm

I feel like CD versions of albums usually sound pretty good. And there are some I can tell came from a master tape - Dire Straits' first album is one such CD where I can tell there is a noticeable hiss during quiet parts of the music.

Why does the master tape cause hissing?

candycane

===
user is generated from /dev/urandom

...On a clear disk you can seek forever.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: -=[conchaos.synchro.net | ConstructiveChaos BBS]=- (21:4/141)

Re: Re: Vinyl records
By: candycane to Nightfox on Mon Sep 11 2023 08:53 am

I feel like CD versions of albums usually sound pretty good. And there
are some I can tell came from a master tape - Dire Straits' first album
is one such CD where I can tell there is a noticeable hiss during quiet
parts of the music.

Why does the master tape cause hissing?

Because it's an analog format, and all analog tapes have some amount of hiss.. It's just the nature of the medium. Have you ever used cassette tapes for your own personal recordings or anything?

Nightfox

Re: Re: Vinyl records
By: Nightfox to candycane on Mon Sep 11 2023 10:26 am

hiss.. It's just the nature of the medium. Have you ever used cassette tapes for your own personal recordings or anything?

Not really.

candycane

===
user is generated from /dev/urandom

...Old? The only thing that kept it standing was the woodworm holding hands. --- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: -=[conchaos.synchro.net | ConstructiveChaos BBS]=- (21:4/141)

Re: Re: Vinyl records
By: candycane to Nightfox on Tue Sep 12 2023 08:39 am

hiss.. It's just the nature of the medium. Have you ever used cassette
tapes for your own personal recordings or anything?

Not really.

Never even bought albums on cassette tape, or listened to anyone play a cassette?

Nightfox

Nightfox wrote to candycane <=-

Re: Re: Vinyl records
By: candycane to Nightfox on Tue Sep 12 2023 08:39 am

hiss.. It's just the nature of the medium. Have you ever used cassette
tapes for your own personal recordings or anything?

Not really.

Never even bought albums on cassette tape, or listened to anyone play a cassette?

I don't remember it if I did.

--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

... void Void(void) { Void() } /* The recursive call of the void */
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: -=[conchaos.synchro.net | ConstructiveChaos BBS]=- (21:4/141)

get yourself a copy of Traktor Pro 3, an audio interface and some timec

There are free ones that support timecode, too :)

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Atari ST! - bbs.sfhqbbs.org:5983 (21:3/171)

On 14 Sep 2023, Phigan said the following...

get yourself a copy of Traktor Pro 3, an audio interface and some time

There are free ones that support timecode, too :)

yeah yeah.. something in that story still had to be premium ;) Mixxx would certainly do the trick.

could record the timecode to a cassette tape and have an 80s simulator too. maybe throw in a 16x2 character lcd and a raspberry pi so you can pick the songs the tape will play from the front of a modified tape deck, all self contained.

bet you'd get a few hundred thousand views on a youtube video making that, especially if the firmware was polished enough other people could replicate it.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

I have about 100 cassettes of my bands recorded in the 70's, 80's, and
90's. I am currently transferring them to digital. THey are all in
pretty good shape for their age... only one bad one so far but that has
some original music on it that I am trying to preserve.

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Atari ST! - bbs.sfhqbbs.org:5983 (21:3/171)

On 15 Sep 23 14:59:52 Bf2K+ wrote...

I have about 100 cassettes of my bands recorded in the 70's, 80's,
and 90's. I am currently transferring them to digital. THey are all
in pretty good shape for their age... only one bad one so far but
that has some original music on it that I am trying to preserve.

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01] * Origin: STar Fleet HQ -
Atari ST! - bbs.sfhqbbs.org:5983 (21:3/171)

To which Commodore Clifford replies...

Wish you the best of luck with that. I'd be a shame if that was lost. :(

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Atari ST! - bbs.sfhqbbs.org:5983 (21:3/171)

could record the timecode to a cassette tape and have an 80s simulator maybe throw in a 16x2 character lcd and a raspberry pi so you can pick songs the tape will play from the front of a modified tape deck, all se

Not a bad idea! But you could also just use a tape audio adapter :)

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Atari ST! - bbs.sfhqbbs.org:5983 (21:3/171)

On 15 Sep 2023, Phigan said the following...

could record the timecode to a cassette tape and have an 80s simulator maybe throw in a 16x2 character lcd and a raspberry pi so you can pick songs the tape will play from the front of a modified tape deck, all s

Not a bad idea! But you could also just use a tape audio adapter :)

oh god the dark days. i probably owned several dozen of those..

that reminds me.. at one point i fitted an old pc into my car with an inverter and all that.. DOS only .. took a bit to boot and hummed like crazy but i played MP3s with it and used a gravis gamepad as a remote
to change songs. fun times.

kinda wanna do that again with a rpi and an ssd maybe.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

such CD where I can tell there is a noticeable hiss during quiet part the music.

Why does the master tape cause hissing?

Not all CDs are created from the original masters. Some of them are created from tapes of the originals. That's usually because the original master has been damaged or lost. They just create the CDs from the best tape recording they can salvage. Sometimes the original master is so old and degraded that an early tape recording of the master will sound BETTER than the original master.

... A book in the hand is worth two on the shelf!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: The Unmarked Van - 21:1/130 - Mt. Healthy, Ohio (21:1/130)

Not all CDs are created from the original masters. Some of them are created from tapes of the originals. That's usually because the original master has been damaged or lost. They just create the CDs from the best tape recording they can salvage. Sometimes the original master is so old and degraded that an early tape recording of the master will sound
BETTER than the original master.

If one read above conciously... so much history hidden between the lines.. Absolutely astonishing to realize that.

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o for beeRS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

ALONZO (21:1/130) wrote to candycane <=-

Not all CDs are created from the original masters. Some of them are created from tapes of the originals. That's usually because the
original master has been damaged or lost. They just create the CDs from the best tape recording they can salvage. Sometimes the original master
is so old and degraded that an early tape recording of the master will sound BETTER than the original master.

Sparks had difficulties getting a copy of the original masters for their 1977 album introducing Sparks, that they had to use a copy of the Vinyl record to make the digital release.





... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52


--- WWIV 5.9.0.3695[Windows]
* Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)

Sparks had difficulties getting a copy of the original masters for their 1977 album introducing Sparks, that they had to use a copy of the Vinyl record to make the digital release.

That may have been what I was thinking of.

... The seminar on time travel will be held two weeks ago

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: The Unmarked Van - 21:1/130 - Mt. Healthy, Ohio (21:1/130)